Russia invades Ukraine: General Discussion 2023

Stay away from open windows, Kostya

Russian warship protecting pipelines attacked by 3 Ukrainian marine drones in the Black Sea in the Turkish waters.

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Russian shovel drones have washing machine motor and refrigerator chip.

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I expect that Ukraine will start targeting Moscow electric grid. With a few million people without electricity hard to say the “conflict” is going well.

Good read. Thank you for posting.

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That would raise serious questions about Russia’s ability to defend itself in its own capitol. Ukraine should do it. How is is possible these missiles even got that far into the country is what Russians would start asking.

If true, this German general must surely be on the payroll of Putler:

Bundeswehr General learned of war crimes committed by Ukrainian soldiers against Russian prisoners of war
Bundeswehr General Andreas Marlow has learned of the war crimes committed by Ukrainian soldiers against Russian prisoners of war. The German public prosecutor’s office and the German Ministry of Defense have not reacted to his complaints, which he submitted in February 2023.

Lieutenant General Andreas Marlow heads the Multinational Special Training Center, under whose supervision Ukrainian soldiers are trained. For months, Marlow has been trying to launch a federal investigation into crimes committed by Ukraine’s military. In February 2023, he submitted a formal application to Duscha Gmel, federal prosecutor at the Federal Court of Justice, and a copy to the German Ministry of Defense. So far, the authorities have not responded to his request in any way.

In particular, he noted that Ukrainian soldiers trained at the Wildflecken and Hummelburg bases repeatedly showed videos of torture and executions of Russian prisoners of war, confirming Ukrainian involvement in war crimes.

Although dozens of German officers saw the videos, they were ordered not to disseminate what they saw. Most of them do not want to lose their official posts and therefore do not make the facts of the crimes public.

According to Marlow, German trainers who have worked with Ukrainians believe that they are not interested in the training program offered by the Bundeswehr. Rather, they are interested in ways to intimidate the opponent - including those that could be classified as war crimes. Ukrainians especially often referred to the effectiveness of punitive measures carried out by SS troops in the occupied territories of the USSR.

In addition, the Ukrainians requested access to Bundeswehr documents on punitive actions, both from the present and from World War II. According to them, British representatives have already shared similar information with them, and they expected the same from the Germans.

Marlow does not accept the policy of concealing war crimes and wants to make it public, even though he knows what it can cost him. He is convinced that the torture processes should be fully clarified, especially since German trainers who worked with the Ukrainians can, in his opinion, appear as witnesses.

Did not know English was used on road signs in Moscow.

‘War is a racket’.

An article doing the rounds and being discussed appeared in The New Yorker, unfortunately that article is behind a paywall so best I can do is link to a review of that article.

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…correspondents from The New York Times, the other big dailies, the wire services, and the broadcast networks have accepted without protest the Kiev regime’s refusal to allow them to see the war as it is.

Content these professional slovens have been to sit in Kiev hotel rooms and file stories based on the regime’s transparently unreliable accounts of events, all the while pretending their stories are properly reported and factual.

but hey, some out there still wanna read/promote that MSM dung

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How is the New Yorker not MSM?

Anyways, I was able to access the original piece no problem. Didn’t finish it, but the fact that it is published disproves the notion that something is being hidden. Nobody has said this is a picnic with nothing but happy and not dead Ukrainians.

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that’s what makes @Mick’s find so unusual.

This is the war the propaganda machine has kept from us. And now we know that what correspondents reporting for independent media have been describing is by and large the war as it is.

But the larger picture suggests publication of this eye– and mind-opening piece reflects a creeping recognition in all sorts of places —among the policy cliques, at the Pentagon, in corporate media — that Ukraine is not going to win this war and the time has come to prepare for this eventuality.

If correspondents cannot see the war and it makes no matter to them, we will not see it either. The result, as your columnist noted a while ago, has been two wars: There is the presented, the mythical war, and the real war.

That’s some bullshit.
This is not 1940’s. There is a ton of footage on Telegram and Reddit directly from the front lines available to see for everyone. Helmet mounted GoPros, drone footage of fighting and bombing. This war is very well documented.
There is lots of unedited footage. Storming trenches, going through destroyed positions.
Many documentations of embedded reporters who show how soldiers fight. Interviews with soldiers on the front.

Such footage can’t be published in mainstream media, it is too gruesome. It will give PTSD to people who are not used to that kind of stuff. They give a general picture without going into details.

This is also an issue in Russia. People are fed victories and lies. Many do not object being sent to war. They are lied to be stationed on the borders. Instead they end up in the meat grinder. Not many make it back to tell the truth.

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Agreed.

Strange that the narrative is that there have not been media stories from the front until now. Much of the media has reported on the brutal war in stark detail. The New Yorker alone has had many such articles since the first days of the attack by Russia.

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I’m sure this isn’t new information per se but I thought it was interesting given the previous speculation about casualty ratios in Bakhmut:

In the course of the past year, the U.S. has furnished Ukraine with more than thirty-five billion dollars in security assistance. Why, given the American largesse, had the 28th Brigade resorted to such a museum piece? A lot of equipment has been damaged or destroyed on the battlefield. At the same time, Ukraine appears to have forgone refitting debilitated units in order to stockpile for a large-scale offensive that is meant to take place later this spring. At least eight new brigades have been formed from scratch to spearhead the campaign. While these units have been receiving weapons, tanks, and training from the U.S. and Europe, veteran brigades like the 28th have had to hold the line with the dregs of a critically depleted arsenal. In December, while Pavlo’s battalion was being decimated by the Wagner Group, General Valerii Zaluzhnyi, the commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, told The Economist that it was “more important to focus on the accumulation of resources” for future battles. “May the soldiers in the trenches forgive me,” Zaluzhnyi said.

Given that, and a mention elsewhere in the article that Russia is firing ten times more artillery shells per day than Ukraine, it doesn’t seem so implausible that Ukraine is taking more casualties.

And now the spring offensive has been delayed until they … get even more weapons from the West? I’m no military strategist, but this doesn’t seem like a great use of Ukrainian lives.

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This is definitely happening. Here’s the NYT dialling back expectations for Ukraine’s spring offensive last month, for instance:

Not long back any suggestion of support for a negotiated peace instantly resulted in being labelled pro-Putin (as I have been multiple times in this thread). It’s good to see the narrative gradually aligning with common sense.

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It isn’t particularly new or hidden, I’ve read plenty of stuff over the past months about how Ukraine will struggle to match the successes of their last offensive. Hence:


I’d be interested to see several quotes to back that up. What I and others have said is that a negotiated peace isn’t currently possible because Putin won’t give up invaded territory and Ukraine doesn’t need to. The war could end if Putin gives up his invasion. I’m sure you’re not pro Putin, i just don’t understand how a negotiated end to the war is currently possible without capitulating to Putin’s aggressive land grab

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