Russia invades Ukraine: General Discussion 2023

Yeah, I agree. But it’s a very different message than the same outlets were pushing last year (Ukraine will retake all captured territory) or the year before that (Putin’s regime will collapse and be replaced by a NATO-friendly democracy). Perhaps they honestly believed those things at the time, but most independent media didn’t.

I’ll refrain from doing so because I don’t want to reignite arguments with other posters, but search “brendon putin” and the 2022 thread has a few back-and-forths, for instance. I don’t think you were involved in them. For a less personal example, remember the crucifixion of Chomsky for the “fight to the last Ukrainian” comments?

Yeah, any negotiated peace would have to involve some concessions, by definition. I’ve posted before that I feel like independence for the Eastern regions might be mutually acceptable (and we discussed it), but if that still constitutes capitulation then I agree diplomacy has nowhere obvious to go.

So what do we make of this?

Still, President Biden’s aides have been exploring potential endgames, trying to identify an outcome that could be acceptable to both Kyiv and Moscow if real peace talks started, U.S. officials say.

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I thought the message for an year before that was “Putin will never actually invade Ukraine, uh… again, especially not after Macron’s charm offensive.”

Conceding the Eastern regions will result in another Putin invasion in a few year’s time. Unless he is replaced by someone who isn’t a warmonger.

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Hah you’re correct, about the timeline at least. I should have written “the months before that” or something. This war feels like it’s been going on for longer than it has, I guess.

Meanwhile, perhaps that thing about waiting for more weapons to begin an offensive was misdirection?

Some Taiwanese are sending cash donations in exchange for a personalized signature on Ukrainian army artillery shells to show their support for Ukraine.

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IIRC the article I shared way back when (because the MSM has actually included such things, hust hard to see from a rabbit hole), suggested a referendum that is free from interference, and includes displaced former residents of that area, and includes independence as one of three possible options.

This is still possible, surely someone is still writing this opinion

I have still recently seen headlines to this effect

Possible is not the same as probable. Besides, if we are to claim it’s possible, we need to do an honest evaluation.

People are indeed writing that opinion, but I don’t think they have done an honest evaluation, at least from what I see, that sort of outcome the probability is shrinking the longer the conflict goes on .

It was not probable that Ukraine would blunt the initial invasion, or make such great gains with their last offense. But both things are now actual. Honest.

Tough to have an accurate forecast given the poor quality of information on all sides. And that’s to be expected, fog of war.

A Taiwanese volunteer who fought in Ukraine come back to Taiwan recently, he posted an article to describe his experience in volunteer legion:

Here is the translation

Since my experience in Ukraine was revealed. The private messages asking how to join the International legion in Ukraine have been pouring in my account like snowflakes

In order to avoid trouble and to take precautions, I write a special article here. So that more people will not try to sign up for the international volunteer legion only because of my legacy

I don’t want to see anyone get hurt or die in the war because of me. For those who want to join, I hope that by sharing my experience in the field, I could help you fully understand the difficult situation in Ukraine and think twice before making a decision.


Money:

First of all, the most initial expense is the transportation cost. Before you join the legion, you have to get your air tickets to Eastern Europe (mostly Poland, of course, you have to reserve money for your return air tickets, because it is not guaranteed that you will be selected)

Next is your equipment expenses Although the international volunteer legion will provide you with basic personal equipment (helmet, undershirt, uniform boots, etc.)

However, it is still advisable to bring your own personal equipment. Those who have military experience know that the quality of the public-issued products is not good at all. Some are even second-hand, so it is definitely not too comfortable to wear. Officials also recommend carrying your own ones.

You also need to purchase additional tactical equipment such as scopes, gun accessories, flashlights, headphones, extra magazines, night vision goggles, thermal imaging, etc.

Not to mention the consumption like wear and tear in the missions. This is a large amount of expenditure.

Of course you can be a free boy all rely on the public, but for a professional soldier, adding professional and suitable accessories, equipment, props, additional defense, etc., can greatly enhance your combat effectiveness, increase the chance of survival or mission success rate.

Not only for personal benefits, but also for the team benefits. This is a professional and responsible performance in the battlefield.

I personally spent more than $10,000 USD before and after, investing in personal accessories and tactical parts, and although I also relied on military rates to buy them later, I spent more than $3300 USD out of my own pocket just for the initial capital.If you had such financial resources, I think your life would not have been too bad.

Whether it is worth giving up the life in front of you, this is a point of reflection. Unless you have a sugar daddy who is willing to sponsor you the equipment and all related payments, then you can skip this discussion.


Physical ability:

Many people may have experience with guns or even in playing survival games. The most important thing is to learn the skills and tactics of the civil society, and to get a license. But the most basic and most important thing in the battlefield is “physical ability”.

Combat skills may still be able to take a class, training, temporary sharpening of the gun. More or less can still be used. But “physical ability” is not a quick fix, it takes years and years of cultivation over a long period of time. Without the most basic physical fitness, just with a full armor and backpack, you can be exhausted, let alone do any tactical actions and shooting.

Take me as an example: Each time we serve as a full body equipment plus weapons, ammunition, backpacks, food, water. At least 30kg ~ 60kg range.

An urban warfare may have to fight all day for more than 10 hours without rest, you have to carry the weight (30-60 kg) of running and climbing up and down, do the action of climbing over walls and windows.

A mission to reach the appointed location may have to first walk in the difficult mud, forest, ruins for several kilometers.

I have seen too many teammates who are not physically fit, and every time when they run out of energy You can’t leave him behind, you can only carry his equipment more extra This is undoubtedly a burden. At the same time it will also put you and your team at risk. I have been dragged down by this kind of teammates many times and been put in danger.


Language:

The international legion basically uses English as the common language, if you can’t speak the language fluently, how do you understand the mission and the orders of your superiors in the battlefield?

Even if you are from a special forces unit that has been through a lot of battles and cannot communicate with your teammates and superiors In their eyes, you are just an idiot who knows nothing. War is not a solo heroic game. It is an art of teamwork

If you can’t speak the language, you can’t even read the contract you signed at the beginning. The army will not accept you, unless there are enough people speaking the same language with you. But for the Chinese community, this is impossible.


Battle skills:

You will not only attack the enemy by the rifle on your hand, but use other kinds of weapons. If you do not usually touch these similar weapons, in the case of a concept, the time to get started will be faster. For an amateur newcomer, it will take more time to learn how to use weapons from every corner of the world.

Ex: for anti-armor weapons, we have : Javelin, NLAW, AT4, C90, MATADOR, M72, RPG-7, RPG series (22, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, etc.)

Not to mention machine guns, mortars, grenade launchers and other weapons. And other skills in addition to the operation of weapons

Such as: combat first aid, mapping, radio, single combat skills, shooting and skill, team tactics, etc.

Although the Corps will also provide basic training, it is based on your own military or battlefield experience. The short month of training is just to familiarize you with building weapons and developing teamwork and simple first aid techniques.

Just like the above personal equipment acquisition, you can also be a battlefield novice. When you arrive at the battlefield is to follow the troops, encounter the enemy will fight blindly, nestled behind the wall to rely on teammates. But this is just an irresponsible behavior.

Will, mentality:

The lack of sleep and intense physical exertion brought about by long hours of mission execution The pressure of life and death in the battlefield environment, the panic attacks brought by the huge shock of the shells, the death of teammates. It is easy to destroy a person’s mind

Even a professional soldier can fall into panic. Loss of judgment and ability to fight because of fear.

For example: my unit has 50% casualty rate. 20% of my teammates were killed in action My platoon alone was annihilated twice, and I was the only one on the team who was lucky enough to be unharmed. Also luckily, my unit doesn’t fight in the deadliest war zone. :slightly_smiling_face:

But sometimes it’s more of a dull thing. It’s not always an offensive mission in war. In the case of a stalemate, it is necessary to repeatedly hold a stronghold or trench for a long time.

Often, many people who want to experience the excitement of war have their enthusiasm extinguished. This is not a modern NATO army with strong logistics and support. A complete combat system, three-dimensional operations and combined arms of the army, navy and Air Force

This is not a movie. It will neither be easy, nor handsome, nor cool at all . War has nothing to do with romance

It’s more about being a mud-legged infantryman struggling in the mud of the battlefield. All you have is full of chaos, dirt, sadness, exhaustion, pain, etc.

Many professional soldiers from Europe and the United States, even though they are good at what they do. The above-mentioned reasons may cause their will to break down and quit, even leave a shadow of a lifetime (PTSD)

We are not Ukrainian soldiers, in order to protect their homelands, who have no choice to retreat.

When one has an exit to escape, one can easily give up a thing

I don’t believe that the Corps would want to give you training, equipment and pay for your retreat. Sadly, the fact is that many people escaped.


Conclusion:

I am not trying to express how good and professional I am as a soldier, I also have a lot of shortcomings to learn and improve. There are too many people who are even better than me. As a soldier, at least I think I have passed the combat test from Russian enemy. I also try not to slow down my teammates and try my best to complete each mission.

I just hope that after reading the above article, you can make a comprehensive assessment of your own ability to think twice before you join the international legion and join the war.

We all want to be a help, instead of being a burden. Being a burden is not only a waste of Ukraine’s precious war resources. but possibly get you killed and even your teammates get killed.

Don’t ask me if you can do logistics. In fact, most of the logistics are in the hands of the Ukrainian army, and there are not many logistics jobs for you to do in the front line. And the ability of doing those logistical work is almost always dispensable and replaceable.

Unless you have special irreplaceable skills, such as medical, etc.

At the same time you have to think about what to do if you get into an accident? It’s easier to just die and be done with it. But what if you are disabled? As a volunteer, the Ukrainian government will not be responsible for the rest of your life.

If you are determined to join the war and want to join the army, please go to the army website. Please apply yourself on the official website of the army or the official website of Ukraine. Nowadays, the internet media is very advanced and it is easy to get all kinds of information and channels. There are detailed information on how to apply and the process

If you can’t even handle this little thing and can’t get to the designated place with your own ability, then I advise you not to go. In the ever-changing battlefield, I believe you are unable to cope with all kinds of unexpected situations There is no babysitter to lead you in the battlefield

Finally, the battlefield is not for fame It is not a place to achieve glory and make a hero. War is only about hurting others and being hurt. In return, there is only endless pain and suffering. The chances of you losing a great deal are only greater than what you gain.

Unless you have high ideals and beliefs, and you are ready to dedicate yourself to it. Then I only sincerely offer my respects and wish you good luck.

-END

https://twitter.com/ChengWeiLai2/status/1665387022444556289

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I wouldn’t be volunteering after reading those numbers.

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Interesting:

One rule for one…

Yet another example of the MSM publishing something that isn’t just rah-rah- Ukraine, as has been happening since the beginning

Also, another example of how the MSM is a totally interesting and valuable source of information, when it fits the narrative :slightly_smiling_face:


Edit: also interesting

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Russian volunteers offer the Russians to exchange Russians for the Russians they took prisoners in Russia.

Russian special operation goes according to plan.

Dang I do not have either app. Missing much?

By who? Putin? Is Russia paying reparations one of those concessions?

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Telegram is pretty much essential to get any real uncensored footage from the war.
There are channels that release Russian and Ukrainian footage.

But it can be very disturbing. Just awful suffering and death everywhere.
Putin is a real piece of :poop: for starting this war.

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By everyone, that’s how negotiations work.