Sagging naked breasts in public view. Okay by you?

Discussion Open Forum
1

tomas and omni et all: speaking of sexuality, question for you all:

re: BREASTS

Did anyone see that new Jack Nicklesohn movie called ABOUT SCHMIDT? Saw it last night, and loved it. powerful lite drama about everyman everywhere. My gf liked it too, even though it was situated in a weird Middle America she has never seen! SMILE

but re BREASTS

what caught my attention in the movie an amazing scene where Kathy Bates, the Earth Momma in the movie, gets into a hot tub with Jack, (who is wearing a bathing suit that we cannot see) and when she gets it, before she gets in, she takes off her robe, and for all the world to see, there were her middleaged plumb lady sagging breasts, more than sagging, they looked DEAD! but this actress, love her, had the balls to show the world, not her PERKY TEEN NUBILE BOOKS, (eat your heart out, Madoka Ohzawa chick) but her OLD FLAT SAGGING DEAD AS A DOORNAIL GRANDMA TEATS… and it’s a good thing, because we all gonna get old someday. Jack is 65 now bless him…

My gf said WOW, i have never seen grandma breasts in a USA movie before, that is really cool and refreshing. i just wonder how you felt, guys… ?

Me, I liked it too. Not a pretty picture, but hey, it’s real and not all breasts are PLAYBOY model breasts forever.

Omni, tomas, got an IMHO on this top pick?

2

The naked truth about Kathy Bates

Kathy Bates upstages co-star Nicholson in About Schmidt

In the wistful drama About Schmidt, Kathy Bates accomplishes the near impossible.

She upstages Jack Nicholson in a film that is clearly a star turn for the actor.

In her supporting role as a loud, controlling confirmed hippie, Bates strips naked and joins a disbelieving and increasingly frightened Nicholson in an outdoor hot tub.

“Jack thanked me after the scene. He was a true gentleman,” says Bates, 54, who had a similarly brave nude scene in 1991’s At Play In The Fields Of The Lord.

“That one was a little easier on me because it seemed everyone in the film stripped down at one point or another – even Tom Berenger.”

Nicholson is wearing a bathing suit for the scene, but Bates is naked and filmed from the back and from the waist up.

"The way the scene was written in the script was something I wouldn’t do. They wanted a full frontal with closeups of her hysterectomy scars.

"(Director) Alexander Payne and I negotiated via e-mail.

"It went kind of like: ‘Absolutely no scars. I’ll show this, but I won’t show that.’ He was also a gentleman about the whole thing. I understood the necessity of the scene. It is so totally the character.

“I don’t consider it brave acting. I think of it as an actor doing what was honest for the role.”

Still, Bates admits that the day she shot the scene, she needed a stiff drink.

“Forget wine, I went straight for the hard stuff,” says Bates. “It actually turned out to be fun. I think it’s pretty safe to say I’m not likely going to be able to top that scene.”

3

I saw At Play in the Fields of the Lord and didn’t think she looked too bad. I’m sure she isn’t showing her matronly rack so that the likes of me can evaluate her. She’s got guts, either way. If she is willing to show, that’s her business. It doesn’t gross me out.

Fact is, I prefer not to think about the day when I’m looking across the table at a sagging bustline. Thankfully, the women I date tend to be into physical fitness.

There are some damned good looking old people, and I hope that both me and my beloved among their ranks in 30-40 years.

4

If you find the idea so distasteful, discourage your partner from breast feeding should you have children.

There are some fantastic plastic surgeons around. :?

I admire Kathy Bates even more for her bravery. She’s evidently not vain, shallow, or overly concerned with preserving her youth. She’s not nipped, tucked, or injected w silicone like the other hollywood dames.
But then, she did not make a career based on her looks in the first place. She’s never been a sex goddess, more of a ‘serious’ artist.
Thing is, the images we see in most hollywood films and glossy periodicals represent societal ideals that we’re told we should emulate, especially women.

Tomas’s remarks above prove that the brainwash is working, for some.

I personally would prefer to sit across the table from an old person who has flaws and character lines and who can entertain me and laugh with me in my old age.

5

to fredericka bimmel…

hear! hear! [edited much later with help from my good friend Mr Mod, sigh] [[[[[originally said HERE HERE. dumb me.]]]]

I like what you said! YES!

6

Kathy Bates is a superstar and even tho’ I haven’t seen this scene, I still must object to this juvenile discussion of her body. She is the finest actor working in Hollyweird or on Broadway and you kids should grow up…why not talk about her acting…

FYI…Terence McNally wrote Frankie and Johnny in the Claire de Lune specifically for Kathy Bates…Then Hollywood sticks Michelle Pfiefer in the movie version…wanna talk about big boobs…that’s what I figure the producers made out of that otherwise great romantic comedy…

7

Toe Save; i am with you on this. But first see the scene. It is fascinating. My objective in posting was not to chat juvenile stuff, but actually the opposite, to discuss something serious, that is that our culture usually only shows perky nubile breasts of teens and early 20somethings, and hardly NEVER the real sagging breasts of our mothers and grandmothers. I salute Ms Bates and Hollywood for doing this, it is a sign of our culture’s maturing. Please reread my post again toe save, try to see the movie, and then come back again.

8

Great topic Formosa. I haven’t watched this or heard of it yet… is it on video or at the theater?

I’m all for sagging naked breasts in public view… especially lactating breasts!

9

I’m with you Braxton. Actually, I was disappointed in Harold and Maude that they didn’t show her getting naked.

10

If you find the idea so distasteful, discourage your partner from breast feeding should you have children.

There are some fantastic plastic surgeons around. :?

I admire Kathy Bates even more for her bravery. She’s evidently not vain, shallow, or overly concerned with preserving her youth. She’s not nipped, tucked, or injected w silicone like the other hollywood dames.
But then, she did not make a career based on her looks in the first place. She’s never been a sex goddess, more of a ‘serious’ artist.
Thing is, the images we see in most hollywood films and glossy periodicals represent societal ideals that we’re told we should emulate, especially women.

Tomas’s remarks above prove that the brainwash is working, for some.

I personally would prefer to sit across the table from an old person who has flaws and character lines and who can entertain me and laugh with me in my old age.[/quote]

My remarks prove nothing of the sort. Wanting to be with someone who takes care of herself is a far cry from buying into Hollywood brainwashing. Most people recognize this distinction. Not you. You see it as a chance to go on the attack.

Love the personal attack, don’t you? First tigerman, then chainsmoker, now it’s my turn. It isn’t enough for you to keep the discussion focused on the issues. You have to turn it personal.

I also noticed that, true to the pseudo-crusader’s form, you put yourself up as a shining example of how you believe everyone should be. Whatever.

11

Well I’m just sick and tired of everyone talking about me as if I wasn’t there. Let’s have no more about sagging breasts, OK? Look, I know I should work out more, but I really don’t have the time. And mantits are coveted in some societies, I’m sure.

12

I mean this seriously. Does anyone really want to see old saggy breasts? Probably not. Do people want to see perky nubile breasts? Probably close to 50% of the population. So more of the perky and less of the saggy.

Brian

13

I find perky breasts to be more visually pleasing. That doesn’t mean that art (or artists) with un-perky breasts are any less worthy - the intended purpose is obviously not visual pleasure, but possibly something more meaningful. Art doesn’t have to titillate… :laughing:

14

Sorry to offend you, Tomas. That’s not what I intended.

It’s very difficult for women to achieve the sort of fantasy ideal image that Hollywood/magazines expect them to live up to. It contradicts female self-esteem, especially amongst young women. It could be linked to root causes of anorexia, bulemia, and other complexes or depression.

When people age, it is natural that their bodies begin to sag or wrinkle, even those who’ve taken very good care of themselves. To defy aging is impossible unless they’re blessed with amazing DNA, or have enough money to augment themselves (liposuction, breast lifts, collagen) It makes me think of the film with Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep, “Death Becomes Her”!

For men to expect their female partners to remain nubile much past their 60s, especially after having given birth, is well, cruel.
What would you do if your partner lost her breasts to cancer?
Get an intact model?
If her breasts sag should you ditch her and look for a 22 yr old?

For society to look upon aging female flesh as ‘unpleasant’ is shallow and it makes women dissatisfied with themselves if they cannot maintain the image of perfection they once were. Or never were in their own minds.

For Formosa’s girlfriend, who is likely very young and lovely, to exclaim after the film,“It was refreshing” exemplifies that all women fear the inevitable decline that will disappoint their mates. By being given a pure dose of reality, no matter how appalling to the general public, IS refreshing!
Art or not.

Hollywood may be growing up in their views toward women, but I don’t think the world is ready for full frontal male nudity.
We didn’t see Jack stand up and show off his mantits (funny sandman!) and sagging jewels, did we?

15

We’re not talking about art, we’re talking about a Hollywood film. the two are mutually exclusive don’t you know :wink:

Brian

16

Of course, most males want to see, touch, kiss, fondle, etc, melon-like perky nubile breasts with sensual nipples. And that’s just what most of us get to do every day … in our dreams, and on the Playboy Channel and for those lucky enuf to have married/migrated into wonderful fields of fresh cleavage, ahoy there!

What I was merely pointing out in the initial Bates post was that it is also nice to see our culture maturing to the point where Hollywood is not averse to showing a middle aged star’s sagging breasts, and you gotta see the movie, to see how sagging they are! I was shocked, shocked! At first. THen I realized, hey, cool, this is life, let’s get used to it. I felt it was a wake up call to the way of all flesh.

After you’ve seen the DVD or video or movie now in theaters, post again here.

But yes, of course, we all love perky nubile breasts any day, and more power to those women who keep themselves in shape. But yes, we all age, and breasts will sag. Let’s get used to it, and salute the value of older women as well. That’s all I was saying. Give peace a chance!

17

[quote=“fredericka bimmel”]Sorry to offend you, Tomas. That’s not what I intended.

It’s very difficult for women to achieve the sort of fantasy ideal image that Hollywood/magazines expect them to live up to. It contradicts female self-esteem, especially amongst young women. It could be linked to root causes of anorexia, bulemia, and other complexes or depression.

When people age, it is natural that their bodies begin to sag or wrinkle, even those who’ve taken very good care of themselves. To defy aging is impossible unless they’re blessed with amazing DNA, or have enough money to augment themselves (liposuction, breast lifts, collagen) It makes me think of the film with Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep, “Death Becomes Her”!

For men to expect their female partners to remain nubile much past their 60s, especially after having given birth, is well, cruel.
What would you do if your partner lost her breasts to cancer?
Get an intact model?
If her breasts sag should you ditch her and look for a 22 yr old?

[/quote]

If you had not gone on the attack so quickly, I might have had a chance to express my views on this very issue, which are the same as yours.

I have a number of lovely female relatives who are overweight by most standards, and obese by Hollywood standards. I’ve seen them put themselves through hell trying to live up to Hollywood standards. Just being healthy isn’t enough.

The influence the American cosmetics and fashion industries have on beautiful, normal women is immense and devastating. Perhaps the most extreme example for me was a gorgeous professional cheerleader I dated for about six months a few years ago. Within that period, she had two plastic surgeries (breast augmentation and RK). She was already perfect (I reminded her of this frequently, but to no avail). I blame popular culture and her own inability to see the forest for the trees. Her obsession with every little flaw, every pimple, every extra ounce beyond her 105 pounds eventually made her very difficult to be around. She was a smart woman (a bank manager during the daytime–cheerleaders don’t make much money), but had been so objectified for so long that she actually believed her value came solely from her physical beauty. She had other qualities that I liked, so I hung in there for a while, but I eventually couldn’t fight it anymore and stopped going out with her. Again, I blame an insidious popular culture that makes people feel like they have to be physically and materially perfect before they can be happy.

Hell, Sandman and Maoman can tell you I ain’t no perfect physical specimen (although I’d like to emphasize that they personify the male ideal of perfection), but I don’t worry about that. Just do the best with what I have. Fuck Hollywood. Tom Cruise is about 5 foot 7, and Brad Pitt has bad teeth and acne scars. We never see that.

As for male frontal nudity, that seems to be left to Ewan MacGregor and Harvey Keitel.

18

Thanks Formosa, you’ve managed to make the entire forum want to go see this film just to get a glimpse of saggy old tits!

Thing is, women get to see them anyway at gyms or saunas, so it’s no biggie.
It’s young men who’re being enlightened by Ms. Bates. They should knight her for this. Oh, but she’s a yank.

19

Well said, Fredericka!

Well, they might knight her yet. She deserves it!

They knight Yanks don’t they? (sounds like a movie title, doesn’t it?)

20

Saw the film finally and I don’t think her breasts were a big deal at all. Gee, you guys! Get over it! :unamused:

The film offered far more (realistic) food for thought than The artsy fartsy Hours. I cried like an idiot at the end of About Schmidt, but I only scrambled for a fag at the end of The Hours and hours and…

Actually, I loved About Schmidt. Jack was brilliant in it, and I’ve never seen Dermot Mulroney (NOT Dylan Mcdermot) look so awful.
It was just soo sooo realistic. If you’re an american, you’ll see. I mean down to the very last wee details. Had me half-pining, half-repulsed by the idea of going back there soon.