It is remarkable how the teaching salaries have not risen here for over ten years at least.
The basic full time salary for qualified teachers should be at least 100,000 and the hourly rate 800.
Yes, I know locals do not earn anything like this but that is not the point, they haven’t got the expenses that foreigners have and who leaves home to earn less money?
[quote=“WolvesMon”]It is remarkable how the teaching salaries have not risen here for over ten years at least.
The basic full time salary for qualified teachers should be at least 100,000 and the hourly rate 800.
Yes, I know locals do not earn anything like this but that is not the point, they haven’t got the expenses that foreigners have and who leaves home to earn less money?[/quote]
I’m not sure how you can compare the expenses of a typical English teacher (single) to locals that have children and pay 3000-5000/mo per child just for English classes. There’s a reason that salaries haven’t risen in 10 years. The price that the locals can pay hasn’t risen either.
Expenses of flying home and yes supporting family overseas.
And I never mentioned private education.
[quote=“WolvesMon”]
Yes, I know locals do not earn anything like this …[/quote]
They don’t? A designer in my firm just bought himself a large SUV while I have to shop at Gap.
[quote=“kelake”][quote=“WolvesMon”]
Yes, I know locals do not earn anything like this …[/quote]
They don’t? A designer in my firm just bought himself a large SUV while I have to shop at Gap.[/quote]
And that’s where the tuition for his children went. SUVs that’s a red flag ever since Taiwan had to lower the import tax on vehicles due to WTO agreements in 2003 or so.
That doesn’t change that the locals that pay your teaching salary aren’t making more money. If there was more money for English tuition then there would be more money for English teachers. Teaching ESL is a horrible move financially. If you aren’t satisfied with the money then you should go home.
I’ve never heard of a job anywhere where the employer bases salary on the employees’ travel desires. I can just imagine the interview.
Boss - We’re offering $xxxxx per month.
Employee - Well, I plan to fly half way around the world in summer so you’ll need to give me more.
Boss - Sure, we’ll give you $xxxxx + 25%. How does that sound?
[quote=“WolvesMon”]It is remarkable how the teaching salaries have not risen here for over ten years at least.
[/quote]
Probably more like 30+ years…
[quote=“cfimages”]I’ve never heard of a job anywhere where the employer bases salary on the employees’ travel desires. I can just imagine the interview.
Boss - We’re offering $xxxxx per month.
Employee - Well, I plan to fly half way around the world in summer so you’ll need to give me more.
Boss - Sure, we’ll give you $xxxxx + 25%. How does that sound?[/quote]
That’s not entirely true. My wife, a teacher, gets tickets for a family of 4 to fly wherever, as long as it’s classified near home. Some, though they are from the east coast take summer vacations in California. Return tickets are pretty common and in our case saves great expense as its getting increasingly difficult to afford flying to the east coast of Canada. I know it’s not quite what you meant though.
[quote=“kelake”][quote=“cfimages”]I’ve never heard of a job anywhere where the employer bases salary on the employees’ travel desires. I can just imagine the interview.
Boss - We’re offering $xxxxx per month.
Employee - Well, I plan to fly half way around the world in summer so you’ll need to give me more.
Boss - Sure, we’ll give you $xxxxx + 25%. How does that sound?[/quote]
That’s not entirely true. My wife, a teacher, gets tickets for a family of 4 to fly wherever, as long as it’s classified near home. Some, though they are from the east coast take summer vacations in California. Return tickets are pretty common and in our case saves great expense as its getting increasingly difficult to afford flying to the east coast of Canada. I know it’s not quite what you meant though.[/quote]
Thank you. I was just making a point but as usual got ranting. Needless to say newbies should ask for more.
Most foreigners who claim to be teachers in Taiwan are actually tutors. Most people who claim to be certified actually have a certificate of attendance to a program that seems to require about the same number of hours as one or two college classes. Most advertisements to tutor English seem to have errors in basic grammar. If all those people are mixed in with people who have real teacher training, it will depress the wages.
On a related point, there is no requirement that English tutors be effective. If you look at the quality of English in Taiwan and the amount of investment Taiwanese people put into improving their English, it becomes readily apparent that the foreign teachers and tutors are doing a poor job. In that context, there is no pressure to pay more money. Quite the contrary, people will figure that there is no harm in paying less money.
[quote=“cfimages”]I’ve never heard of a job anywhere where the employer bases salary on the employees’ travel desires. I can just imagine the interview.
Boss - We’re offering $xxxxx per month.
Employee - Well, I plan to fly half way around the world in summer so you’ll need to give me more.
Boss - Sure, we’ll give you $xxxxx + 25%. How does that sound?[/quote]
It’s actually pretty standard in the international EFL scene. Just not in Taiwan because they don’t see language tuition as a priority because the rich kids study abroad.
I get a ticket a year in China. Jobs in some places offer two a year but they’re usually oil money countries.
Basically,if the lower middle classes don’t have an urgent economic need to speak English or at least the powerful aspiration to join the group of people where English proficiency tests are a gatekeeper, then the industry contracts as has happened in Taiwan. Supply and demand is also an issue, so for example in the UK, there’s a neverending stream of students doing high stakes testing but also a lot of MA+ qualified EFL people, salaries are contracting. Taiwan’s doubly fucked. Lots of proficient, established in Tai wan teachers, not a high stakes need for English proficiency for most.
if they don’t see language tuition as a priority why are there still 1000s of buxibans in Taiwan? The problem here is simple economics. Not enough customers (kids)causing the market to contract and the customers parents cant afford to pay much due to stagnant incomes.Blaming teachers on the poor English skills is putting the cart before the horse IMO.
For the same reason the U.S. and the UK with hugely obese populations have thousands of cheap gyms.
I was just pointing out that Taiwanese very much DO see language tuition as a priority, usually spending substantial portions of income on it. The problem…they can’t afford to pay for the best results…and of course language acquisition and usage needs more than classes in a stuffy basement or rote drilling from local teachers. They also can’t afford to take their kids on vacations to English speaking countries, excepting the Philippines I guess.
I agree that the rich often have a whole different lifestyle going on in Taiwan.
I’m reminded today of seeing Wang Jin Pin (Mr. 70 houses) mentioning how he was ‘thinking of us Taiwanese’ and ‘it would be his duty to stand as a Presidential candidate’. Brought a tear to my eye.
[quote=“chris1234”]Most foreigners who claim to be teachers in Taiwan are actually tutors. Most people who claim to be certified actually have a certificate of attendance to a program that seems to require about the same number of hours as one or two college classes. Most advertisements to tutor English seem to have errors in basic grammar. If all those people are mixed in with people who have real teacher training, it will depress the wages.
[/quote]
Teachers teach, tutors tutor, you say tomatoe I say tomato. That’s what I’m getting from your first sentence.
You really think a few errors in grammar here and there among Taiwan’s cheap and cheerful English teachers is the reason Taiwanese are such poor English speakers? Have you actually seen the quality of local teachers…and yet people here speak Chinese just fine and do okay in other subjects.
So if the national health system is broke and ineffective that means all the doctors are useless? Yeah?
Could we perhaps change the title to “Why There Are NO Salary Raises”, to avoid disappointment?
[quote=“headhonchoII”]I was just pointing out that Taiwanese very much DO see language tuition as a priority, usually spending substantial portions of income on it. The problem…they can’t afford to pay for the best results…and of course language acquisition and usage needs more than classes in a stuffy basement or rote drilling from local teachers. They also can’t afford to take their kids on vacations to English speaking countries, excepting the Philippines I guess.
I agree that the rich often have a whole different lifestyle going on in Taiwan.
I’m reminded today of seeing Wang Jin Pin (Mr. 70 houses) mentioning how he was ‘thinking of us Taiwanese’ and ‘it would be his duty to stand as a Presidential candidate’. Brought a tear to my eye.[/quote]
That behaviour, lower middle class people pouring their money into price s nsitive cram school tuition, is the same as low paid sedentary paying for gym membership. Have a heart attack, you’ll pay for a good trainer and get thinner. Otherwise, it’s just a lazy aspiration. Doesn’t work.
Also, cram schools address the customers’ motivations, not the learners’ - the parents’ psychological hooks not the learners’. Children don’t acquire much language at cramschhools. It’s a poor environment.
Middle class children in Taiwan can make a living without English. That’s not true everywhere. Those places are pouring money into it at a governmental level. Oil states, Kazakhstan, etc. Taiwan is a ‘mature’ market, now because it’s over the ‘Asian Tiger’ stage of rapid development.
It’s an interesting question, is English important to learn for Taiwanese? I’d say the answer is definitely yes for most private sector workers, even if they don’t need to be very proficient in it for day to day work, they will find it hard to get a higher paid job without some qualifications. For some jobs you simply won’t get in the door without a certain level of English. If they are proficient, it certainly should help their earning power and the range of jobs available to them.
The problem is that if you don’t have English you are more easily exploited by local employers, you limit the markets you deal with and the areas and countries where you can work. Of course I will qualify this by saying that many learn Japanese in Taiwan and hope to move there for work, mainly for economic reasons, those guys often have some English too though.
Now Koreans seems to have done quite well with English proficiency levels similar to Taiwan, but to get the higher paid jobs in the big corporations I’d bet that many have a fairly decent level of English and of course the obligatory 1 or 2 years overseas education.
digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewc … hsedaddiss
[quote]Recently, in the South Korean job market it has been difficult for senior college
graduates to find a good job with large companies, such as Samsung, LG, Hyundai, and
so forth, because there are too many highly educated candidates in South Korea.
According to Hadid (2010), “During the late 1990s, the Korean government decided that
all Koreans should get a college degree. The government reached its goal in 2000, when
89 percent of Koreans graduated from high school and attended college” (p. 1). Because
of the government policy, there are many highly educated candidates in South Korea.
That is why companies decided to put stricter requirements on hiring job candidates:
They should graduate from the top ranking universities. Moreover, most prestigious
South Korean companies continuously require candidates to submit their English
proficiency test score, such as Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL), Test of
English for International Communication (TOEIC), International English Language Test
System (IELTS), or Oral Practical Interview Computer (OPIc). For instance, many South
Korean companies require all candidates to show at least a score of 800 or above on the
TOEIC. Some of the companies eliminate the majority of candidates who scored below
900 on the TOEIC during the first portion of the selection process (Educational Testing
Services, 2011). Interestingly, even though most companies rarely use English while
they work, job applicants have to achieve high scores in the above standardized English
tests to be qualified to apply for a job. Therefore, senior college students must spend
many hours studying English to obtain a high score on the above tests.[/quote]