But they have not made anything close to the original investment they were going to.
We just don’t know, although hopefully we will.
That would make pretty much everybody in Taiwan a socialist since they support single payer health insurance that works. If so Americans should be lining up around the block to apply to be a socialist !
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I will never forgot when the ACA was passed and my die hard “Obama sucks” friends said they were going to move to Canada…can I come with? Where my healthcare would be much better than Obamacare’s greatest dreams?
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Socialism is controlling the means of production. You miss the part where I point out private heath care becomes obsolete under Sanders plan. The UK and Taiwan have a healthy private insurance industry.
I like the single payer system here but also have private insurance. There are limits to what can be provided under a single payer system, something Sanders isn’t being very honest about.
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Taiwan’s is a single payer system though. Barring anything Sanders has said. Taiwan’s is Single Payer.
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Yes but has a healthy and necessary private sector. Bernie claims his single payer system will be as good as any private sector insurance (except much cheaper) hence everyone can do away with the private sector making the Government plan the only game in town.
It’s a false claim.
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Thats fine. But I replied before the second paragraph was added. Just wanna make sure people know Single Payer system doesn’t preclude the existence or non existence of additional private insurance. It can have private options.
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Hey hey there was no edit on my part. I’m for single payer, I have made that my stance since forever.
But a major part of the calculation in which is working out everyone is going to be better off, is they all do away with their private insurance. I think it’s ok for Bernie to say single payer systems need to make choices on drugs and it’s not possible to give the latest breaking technology on everything all the time or there might be wait times, that’s the reality of single payer and some things are just much more difficult to provide in terms of cost.
He is trying to sell the idea everything a private insurance plan covers, will be covered in a single payer system. A lot of it can be. But the way he is selling it, the math doesn’t add up.
Bottom line, people who want to keep a private health plan will still pay for single payer. That’s ok, Bernie should at least square there may be a reason people want to do that. Except, that would be admitting his single payer system doesn’t cover everything in private insurance.
Therein is his lie.
Which the putative Democrat nominee would make illegal.
I reckon it’s relevant to point that out in a thread about Sanders running for POTUS in 2020.
Dammit, did I see wrong? Sorry about that.
Don’t do forumosa when eating Pho, kids.
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Really? I wonder about these polls.
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To be honest, opinion polls don’t matter if the result is even somewhat close. The opinion polls were correct about Hillary but the way the Electoral College is set up that gives some voters more weight than others. They should be weighting these opinion polls better.
But they do seem to lead in his favour…for now. It’s too far ahead
I’m out of Times articles for the month and don’t feel like closing out of stuff and deleting cookies with tomorrow being March, so I can’t read what you posted.
I would say, yeah, Bernie probably has a chance. No one thought Trump was really going to make it all the way through the primaries in 2016 cuz they saw the whole the thing as a joke. Certainly the MSM wasn’t giving him a lot of consideration in March of 2016. I remember someone I knew comparing Trump supporters to unicorns in October of 2016 (“people say they exist in large numbers, but no one knows if they’re really real”). Yet he was elected president just a few weeks later.
Moral of the story: no idea what will happen come November. Especially when you add covid19, literally all the things could happen in the next few months.
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Just reload the page and stop it before the paywall pops up.
Here you go @nz
Contents
Most available evidence points in the direction of a popular vote and Electoral College victory.
Mr. Phillips is the author of “Brown Is the New White: How the Demographic Revolution Has Created a New American Majority.”
- Feb. 28, 2020, 5:00 a.m. ET
Bernie Sanders in Charleston, S.C., on Tuesday.Credit…Damon Winter/The New York Times
Whatever you think about Bernie Sanders as a potential president, it is wrong to dismiss his chances of winning the office. Not only does most of the available empirical evidence show Mr. Sanders defeating President Trump in the national popular vote and in the critical Midwestern states that tipped the Electoral College in 2016, but his specific electoral strengths align with changes in the composition of the country’s population in ways that could actually make him a formidable foe for the president.
Almost all of the current polling data shows Mr. Sanders winning the national popular vote. In the most recent national polls testing Democratic candidates against Mr. Trump, Mr. Sanders beat him in every single one, with margins varying from 2 percent to 6 percent. This has been the case for nearly a year now, with Mr. Sanders outpolling the president in 67 of 72 head-to-head polls since March.
As 2016 proved when Hillary Clinton defeated Mr. Trump in the popular vote by nearly three million votes, however, the Electoral College is what matters most. There, Mr. Sanders also does well, outperforming Mr. Trump in polls of the pivotal battleground states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. In the one poll showing significant Trump strength in Wisconsin (Quinnipiac), Mr. Sanders still fares the best of the Democratic contenders.
In addition to the polling data about how voters might act in the future, there is now the much more valuable information of actual voter behavior in the first three nominating contests, in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. It is not just the fact that Mr. Sanders won the popular vote in all three states, it is how he won that portends hidden and underappreciated general election strength.
Exit polls and precinct analyses show that Mr. Sanders runs strongest with some of the most overlooked and undervalued sectors of the population — young people and Latinos in particular. In all three early states, he received twice as much support from voters under 30 than his closest competitor. In Nevada, he received about 70 percent of the vote in the most heavily Latino precincts.
These particular strengths matter because the composition of the electorate in 2020 will be appreciably different than it was in 2016. Pew Research projects that this will be the most racially diverse electorate ever, with people of color making up fully one-third of all eligible voters. The share of eligible voters from Generation Z (18-23 year olds) will be more than twice as large in 2020 as it was in 2016 (10 percent versus 4 percent).
Notably, the expanding sectors of the population are much more progressive and pro-Democratic than their aging and white counterparts. Mrs. Clinton defeated Mr. Trump by nearly 20 points among voters under 30, and the anti-Republican tilt of that demographic was even more pronounced in 2018, when 67 percent of them voted Democratic, 35 points more than the number who voted Republican. As for Latinos, nearly two-thirds of that population consistently vote Democratic.
The implications of these developments are most significant in the specific states where the election will be most fiercely fought. In Michigan and Wisconsin, which were decided in 2016 by roughly 11,000 and 22,700 votes respectively, close to a million young people have since turned 18. Beyond the Midwestern trio of states, the demographic revolution has even more transformative potential. Mr. Trump won Arizona, for example, by 91,000 votes, and 160,000 Latinos have turned 18 in that state since then.
To fully harness the energy from the demographic revolution, Mr. Sanders will need to strengthen his support among African-American voters who were more resistant to his candidacy when he faced Mrs. Clinton. His strong support among younger African-Americans could help, but he would be best served by choosing as his running mate an African-American with strong electoral appeal, such as Stacey Abrams, the former minority leader of the Georgia House of Representatives who received more African-American votes in a statewide election than anyone not named Barack Obama.
In addition to those particular parts of Mr. Sanders’s strength, he is also well-positioned to win back those voters who defected in 2016 because Mrs. Clinton was too moderate for their tastes. For all the focus on Obama-Trump voters, it was Obama-Stein voters who created the critical cracks in the Democratic firewall (the increase in votes for Jill Stein from 2012 to 2016 was greater than Mr. Trump’s margin of victory in Michigan and Wisconsin). Of all the remaining candidates, Mr. Sanders is the most likely to reclaim those Democratic voters who defected to the Green Party in search of a more progressive standard-bearer.
Much of the angst about Mr. Sanders topping the ticket stems from fear about negative fallout in down-ballot congressional races. Here, too, the concerns are overblown. In the vast majority of congressional districts where Democrats ousted Republican incumbents in 2018, it was enthusiasm and the high turnout of Democratic voters that made the difference, much more than alienated moderate Republicans switching their party allegiance. In all but five of the 41 seats picked up by Democrats, increased Democratic turnout alone would have been enough to flip the seats without any Republican crossovers.
While some small number of down-ballot House races could become more competitive, that risk is offset by the opportunity for Democrats to flip even more seats by mobilizing younger and more diverse voters. In 2018, Democrats fell just 1,000 votes short in both the Seventh District of Georgia, for example, where there is a sizable African-American population, and San Antonio’s 23rd District, which is more than half Latino. There are several other seats where Democrats could make additional gains with Mr. Sanders atop the ticket.
The empirical evidence shows that there is no need for alarm about Mr. Sanders being the Democratic nominee, and even some cause for confidence. If you want to engage in theoretical thought experiments, a useful exercise would be to ask how many people who voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 would switch their votes to back Mr. Trump just because Mr. Sanders was the nominee? Common sense suggests that the answer is infinitesimally small.
If that is the case, then Mr. Sanders would win the popular vote. As for the roughly 78,000 votes in three states that flipped the Electoral College, the particular strengths that Mr. Sanders brings to the contest strongly suggest that he could close that gap and make the leap into the Oval Office.
Steve Phillips (@StevePtweets), the host of the podcast Democracy in Color With Steve Phillips and a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, is the author of “Brown Is the New White: How the Demographic Revolution Has Created a New American Majority.”
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And I’ve given the cite before that Sanders’ plan would not allow for private insurance except for the things that are not covered under the public plan. His plan is not Taiwan’s, or Denmark’s, or whatever else he pretends it to be. Plus, he goes much further than that in his support for nationalizing other parts of the US economy. All of this is out there on video; it’s shocking that people choose to be so ignorant.
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If course. His plan is for “people of the government” rather than “government of the people”.
The more power the government has over the private sector and the individual the harder it is to stop it.
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Sanders would make more than one firsts lists. First socialist president in US history. First challenger in US history to defeat an eligible incumbent when the national unemployment rate is <4%.
Certainly there are some in the GOP who relish Sanders’ nomination, too.
Completely agree. You tell people that Sanders supporters talk openly about gulags, beheadings, they just drift away, don’t want to hear it. You tell them about the horrors of communism and Latin American socialism, they squint their eyes and deny that’s what Sanders wants. You tell them that Sanders refuses to denounce socialism, they think you are the one lowering the conversation.
I think it may be that too many of Sanders supporters do not know about communism and communist regimes, and the rest don’t think he means it or think that it doesn’t matter since he couldn’t accomplish it anyway.
Pretty amazing.
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Hell yes. A few of his socialist dictator loving quotes and threats of losing your private health insurance and current great investment returns played on TV continuously and he’s toast.
Everyone I know back home is hoping he’ll get the nomination because it leads to four more years.