Should women be in the military?

[quote]Readers Write: Rape and the U.S. Military

By Laura Barcella, AlterNet. Posted July 24, 2006.

Readers responded with intensity to two recent AlterNet stories about rape perpetrated by servicemen in the U.S. military.

Should women be allowed to serve in the U.S. military? Is rape, sexual harassment and assault a predictable byproduct of war, a symptom of masculinity gone awry, or a larger symbol of America’s imperialistic spirit at its worst?

These were some of the loaded questions AlterNet readers discussed in response to Rose Aguilar’s widely read recent article, “Female Soldiers Treated ‘Lower Than Dirt’”, and Ruth Rosen’s “Wave of Sexual Terrorism in Iraq.” Both explained in detail the ways that American soldiers use their positions of power as weapons over Iraqi civilian women, as well as their own female comrades-in-arms.

“Since the fall of 2003, the Miles Foundation has documented 518 cases of sexual assault on women who have served or are serving in Middle Eastern countries.”

As usual, AlterNet readers had lots to say about the matter. Reader Bobsays weighed in: “War itself makes men very aggressive physically and sexually. I think it is this that is putting female soldiers at risk. Unfortunately, much of this was argued by experienced soldiers prior to the mixing of the sexes in units, but it was dismissed as sexism. I don’t think it was sexism: it was an honest account of how the behavior of young men in a war environment, despite the best checks and balances of the military hierarchy, are still difficult to control. Think about it: horny guys with guns, horny guys, who after having a few friends killed and maimed, don’t care a toss about the military hierarchy or what feminists think. It is that brutal on the frontlines…”[/quote]

Here are the two previous articles referred to:

alternet.org/story/38942/
alternet.org/waroniraq/38932/

I’m sure there must be some sexists on Forumosa that agree there should be no place in the military for women. What’s the liklihood they’d all fit in as well as Leslie England?

Well someone has to cook for the soldiers.

How about comparing the numbers: rape in the military vs rape in college.

I bet similar numbers of women accountants, or lawyers get raped. Probably goes unreported in the latter case and the Soldiers are probably better looking :laughing:

Seriously, women want equality. If that means that they want to fly fighter jets, go boxing or carry an M16 in the jungle then great…but they take their chances of getting shot at, should not expect ANY special treatment and most of all accept that they will always be a minority in the Forces and will have to deal with everything that entails.

Please note that I am not condoning the rape of female soldiers here, the bastards that did it should be locked up for a long time as with any other rape. I am just stating that these women take a bigger risk than say a seamstress that they will be mistreated.

I don’t know. Sexual harrassment in the military is dealt with severely. Most guys wouldn’t even THINK of maltreating a “crack troop.”

You ever seen what the brig is like? It isn’t a jail cell. In Japan, they send wavering jarheads to Okinowa, to sit in a classroom and learn their USMC history again, and run telephone polls up and down steep hills.

That alone is reason enough to not harrass.

[quote]You ever seen what the brig is like? It isn’t a jail cell. In Japan, they send wavering jarheads to Okinowa, to sit in a classroom and learn their USMC history again, and run telephone polls up and down steep hills.

That alone is reason enough to not harrass.[/quote]

But it doesn’t seem to cure those fiesty lads of Okinawa, though.

My only encounter with women in military uniform was the dyke coporal on my basic training camp who abused her power and sexually assaulted a female private. Out on her ear.

HG

But wouldn’t their boobs get in the way? And what about makeup? Do fighter jets even HAVE rearview mirrors?

As non-combatants… YES.

I say let them tackle all facets, combatant as well. I’m sure, as many of us are no doubt aware, women are just as capable of mindlessly maiming and killing as a bloke, probably better. My only concern would be the increased risk-taking behaviour of the young male soldiers as they trip over each other to show the lasses what they’re made of. “Look at me toots, I’m going over the top with just a bayonet between my teeth. Look at my doodle wiggle, I’m going commando, too!”

HG

In the name of sexual equality, yes.

I saw Meg Ryan in a movie, and she killed and died just like a man would…just I was wishing she’d get naked.

Yeah! Those damn pesky wimmins! :unamused:
Here ya go guys . . . some more fodder for the thread.

[quote]Men strike back!
How many men does it take to open a beer?
None. It should be opened when she brings it


Why is a Laundromat a really bad place to pick up a woman?
Because a woman who can’t even afford a washing machine will probably
never be able to support you.

Why do women have smaller feet than men?
It’s one of those “evolutionary things” that allows
them to stand closer to the kitchen sink.


How do you know when a woman is about to say something smart?
When she starts a sentence with “A man once told me…”

How do you fix a woman’s watch?
You don’t. There is a clock on the oven.

Why do men fart more than women?
Because women can’t shut up long enough to
build up the required pressure.

If your dog is barking at the back door and your wife is yelling at the
front door, who do you let in first?
The dog, of course. He’ll shut up once you let him in.

What’s worse than a Male Chauvinist Pig?
A woman who won’t do what she’s told


I married a Miss Right.
I just didn’t know her first name was Always.

Scientists have discovered a food that diminishes
a woman’s sex drive by 90%.
It’s called a Wedding Cake.

Why do men die before their wives?
They want to.

Women will never be equal to menuntil they can
walk down the street with a bald head and a beer
gut, and still think they are sexy.

In the beginning, God created the earth and rested.
Then God created Man and rested.
Then God created Woman.
Since then, neither God nor Man has rested.[/quote]

I never thought I’d be giving Bodo one of these…

:notworthy:

[quote=“Taichung Social Club”]I never thought I’d be giving Bodo one of these…

:notworthy:[/quote]

Yeah bodo

you da man! :wink:

[quote=“Taichung Social Club”]I never thought I’d be giving Bodo one of these…

:notworthy:[/quote]
I thought the fart one was particularly funny. Guess i’ve always had a soft spot for potty humor. :smiley:

Bodo

This one is my favourite:

[quote=“bodo”]If your dog is barking at the back door and your wife is yelling at the front door, who do you let in first?
The dog, of course. He’ll shut up once you let him in. [/quote]

My contribution to this thread:

Should Blacks be in the Military? Should Women be in the Military? Should Gays/Lesbians be in the Military?

God, it’s the same question over and over. Should anyone who isn’t white, heto, and male be allowed because we think they can’t fight? As if a bullet knows the difference and when you’re in that trench does it really make a difference?

[quote=“Namahottie”]Should Blacks be in the Military? Should Women be in the Military? Should Gays/Lesbians be in the Military?

God, it’s the same question over and over. Should anyone who isn’t white, heto, and male be allowed because we think they can’t fight? As if a bullet knows the difference and when you’re in that trench does it really make a difference?[/quote]

No blacks = no military.

The fact that blacks are not publically given the credit they deserve for serving their country is disgusting. Now that I think of it…pretty much all veterans are ignored. :raspberry:

That does it. I’m buying the first veteran I see in NY a beer, whether he/she fucking wants it or not.

And jesus on the cross woman…who the hell fights in “trenches” anymore?? :unamused:

[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“Namahottie”]Should Blacks be in the Military? Should Women be in the Military? Should Gays/Lesbians be in the Military?

God, it’s the same question over and over. Should anyone who isn’t white, heto, and male be allowed because we think they can’t fight? As if a bullet knows the difference and when you’re in that trench does it really make a difference?[/quote]

No blacks = no military.

The fact that blacks are not publicly given the credit they deserve for serving their country is disgusting. Now that I think of it…pretty much all veterans are ignored. :raspberry:

That does it. I’m buying the first veteran I see in NY a beer, whether he/she fucking wants it or not.

And Jesus on the cross woman…who the hell fights in “trenches” anymore?? :unamused:[/quote]

Well my father served but never taught me the formal vocab, so be nice,pls:oops: I think blacks now are given credit,unless you are thinking about Shoshanna Johnson who got pushed aside to the sidelines because of Pvt. Jessica Lynch,a nice little blond from a good family :unamused:, who wasn’t at much risk as Shoshanna was.

[quote]

Jessica Lynch and Shoshanna Johnson underwent nearly identical ordeals in Iraq. But only the white soldier’s story made the cover of Time magazine.

More stories by Farai Chideya

What do you call a black war hero? A nigger.

In the crudest of senses, this twist on the old joke about black PhDs sums up the political backdrop of Calvin Baker’s lyrical novel “Once Two Heroes.” Set in the European battlefields of World War II, in black Los Angeles and in the white South, the book ranges masterfully across geography, race and point of view. The novel follows the struggles and glories of two war heroes, one black, one white, and their divergent and fatally convergent life paths. Although it is a period piece, its echoes are very much present day.

Take the case of Shoshanna Johnson.

Johnson is a single mother of a young daughter. She enlisted in the Army in hopes it would help her become a chef. Instead, the Army specialist was deployed to Iraq, shot through both legs and held prisoner for 22 days. (She was captured in the same ambush as Jessica Lynch, but remained in captivity longer.) Her slow and painful recovery was not charted by the media with the same zeal as her friend Lynch. In fact, there was hardly any coverage of her journey at all.

Today Johnson remains partially disabled, unable to stand for long periods (which clearly impacts her desired career), and haunted by flashbacks to her ordeal. But the U.S. Army, so buoyed by the publicity around the Lynch case, has now dealt Johnson and her family a severe blow. While Jessica Lynch is being discharged from the army with an 80-percent disability benefit, Johnson is being discharged on only 30-percent disability. The difference will mean a loss of nearly $700 per month for Johnson and her child.

Reluctantly, the Johnson family began to turn to the media that had spurned them, speaking out about her plight. Her father, Claude Johnson, told reporter Lee Hockstader of the Washington Post that there was a double standard.

“I don’t know for sure that it was the Pentagon,” he said. “All I know for sure is that the news media paid a lot of attention to Jessica.”

The family has enlisted the help of Rev. Jesse Jackson. Although his help is bound to be effective, it is necessary only because of the tiresome dance of race in America, where whites are seen as the default models for society, and black achievements are looked at with puzzlement.

Jessica Lynch’s face graces the cover of Time magazine; her interviews and excerpts of her book have been scattered across national television. Now, only because of a small but growing outcry, Shoshanna Johnson may get her due as well. [/quote]

http://www.alternet.org/story/17189/

Why is Jessica Lynch getting all the attention

I have to admit with this situation, I do play the race card. It deeply hurt me as a black woman, that another black woman who was serving in the line of duty,not on the front lines but serving nonetheless, was given virtually no press, where as Jessica was given loads of press and a hero’s welcome home but her role wasn’t as major as Shoshanna . Shoshanna was in a far more dangerous situation than Jessica.

It just brought home to me, at least IMO, impressed me with the idea that I could serve my country but still not be ‘good’ enough for it. Many Black vets felt that when they came home from Vietnam. In case anyone questions that, read the book “The Brothers’ Vietnam War: Black Power, Manhood, and the Military Experience Gainesville” by Herman Graham.

Namma,

I appreciate the sacrifices of both women for our country. The fact of the matter is that Jessica Lynch was injured far more severely than Shoshanna and that is what the disability pay is based upon - a medical professionals examination of the injuries, and estimation of the disabilities - NOT race or politics as you and your source have suggested.

Regarding the press that each woman received - can’t argue that the media and the military and the politicos decided that Lynch’s story was a better one, and can’t argue that a wraithe-like white girl from the back woods was chosen for appearances rather than a buxom black woman.

The other thing I was curious about was how you and your source decided that Shoshanna was in a more dangerous situation. I’d be interested in hearing more about this. Seems like to me they were both captured, and injured, etc. What circumstances made Shoshanna more at risk?

At any rate, I think it’s a silly game to be arguing about who was more at risk - Shoshanna or Jessica, and then using this as an argument that one deserved more than the other. They BOTH deserve to be recognized for their contributions and sacrifices, AND they both deserve to get help in adjusting to life outside the military, and life with a disability. If Shoshanna has been ignored, I think that’s a shame. She was certainly more articulate than Jessica - from the TV appearances that I saw.

One final thought, I just hope the VA gets its act together, and that those folks who are trying to limit or cancel veteran benefits are not successful. There’s been press over the past couple of years regarding the problems at the VA (I get the idea the VA has always had them, but they’re worse now).

Bodo