on the topic of the cop…
i know of a cop in taichung who got a good blasting… he used to be quite vigilant at catching illegal, unplated bikes… yet he personally rode an unplated bike himself…
Before big bikes were leegal the bike clubs were stacked with cops. Mobs of big bikes swamping the countryside were assured free passage by the presence of fairly high-ranking or connected cops.
As for the speed safety issue, it really is quite simple. Ask yourself, are the roads a tool to facilitate transport or a venue to play with your toys?
There are venues to show your stuff and test your toys, they’re called race tracks. Unlike the roads, everyone is going in ths same direction, they’ve all agreed to give it their all, the surfaces are checked and all attempts to improve safety for all concerned are maintained.
People that are serious about their bikes and riding fast don’t do it on public roads.
HG
Actually this is what all drivers and riders should be taught when they are just starting to count their mileage.
No, I’m not overlooking it. I’m just pointing out that every single car/truck/van/bus/SUV on the road represents a greater danger than I.[/quote]
You are not pointing it out, you are making it up. All of your examples involve dangerous driving. Not doing shoulder check IS dangerous. Hiding in another road user’s blind spot IS dangerous (yes, in case you didn’t know, everyone MUST be aware of blind spots and avoid them). Sticking the car’s nose into an intersection IS dangerous (if you drive a vehicle, you MUST be able to control its position). Riding close to cars, parked or moving, IS dangerous (have you ever heard of minimal distance? involves side distance too). Not having ample time to check the mirrors and yet maneuvering IS dangerous. A small mistake in a car can kill someone, yes - if he didn’t keep safe distance and speed. So, you didn’t persuade me in the very least that you are the safest rider around. The best that I can attribute to you is that you are a very experienced rider with lightning fast reactions, balls of steel, and a bike with stopping distance of 1m at 100 kph. That just makes you LESS dangerous than most assholes on the road, not less dangerous than every single car. That is, when you are speeding. I believe you are an excellent road fellow when riding withing limits.
What bothers me, is that everybody is talking about endangering lives and only that. As if surviving in accident equals to getting out of it just fine. If you prefer to risk your life, fine, probably I shouldn’t care about it a tiny bit more than you do. But if you happen to kill yourself using my car as a supporting tool, you pass away, leaving me in VERY DEEP SHIT! Is that hard to realize? I welcome everyone in the thread to comment on this point. Am I being unreasonable or what?
Yeah, maybe these things are dangerous…but they are also very very very common and done with no ill intent. And roughly 3 people die every day from CARS hitting SCOOTERS.
You can believe that if you’d like…but you’d be wrong 
. When ever I ride at the speed limit…I crash. Well, not everytime, but I’d say that 90% of my crashes happen during the 20% of the time when I’m riding slowly.
Trust me…if you were on the back of my bike…then the last thing you’d be wanting me to do is the speed limit…if taking into consideration my history.
And with regards to the “take it to the track” comment above. As far as I know there is only one track in all of Taiwan at present. And last I heard it was closed…making it 0 tracks in Taiwan. I hear one is opening up down south somewhere…but that isn’t really relevant to me.
Like I said before. Statistically I have about a 3% chance of dying on my bike in the next 20 years or so. If I do die on my bike the statistics dictate no other vehicle will be involved. Every single poster on here that smokes has a much greater chance of dying from lung cancer…why not go give some of them your parental love?
So you say 3 people killed every day by cars with no ill intent calculate to about a 3% chance of fatal solo crash in 20 years stretch. I see an obvious contradiction here. Besides, I have all reasons to doubt your stats. But your almost religious belief in these numbers shows we are not going to find a common denominator.
As for the racing track, you wouldn’t listen if I said: “If you have no proper place to play with your toys, then don’t”, would you? We can only hope that you don’t have an interest in firearms comparable to your obsession with bikes. I don’t think there are shooting ranges easily available here…
As far as the stats go…Lupillus and I did them once. We looked at total deaths per year…population…etc. The average person’s chance of dying on a scooter is roughly 1% and that’s IF they ride it for 50 years. I increased my chance because of the type of bike I own. But if you look at biking deaths…the majority of them are solo deaths involving only the bike…usually the bike coming off in a corner.
And I think there are roughly 3 trafic related fatalities per day in Taiwan…but some of those would be cars hitting cars…etc. I’m just assuming that most of them would be cars hitting bikes.
So since there are more bikes/scooters on the roads than cars…and the majorty of traffic deaths are caused by cars. Yes…I still do believe that driving a car normally is more dangerous to others, than riding a bike quickly. Take a look at the newspaper almost every day you see pics of cars…and dead bodies. Since big bikes have become legal…I haven’t heard of one killing anyone…and it would be pretty big news if one did.
How many of you when riding on the 3 are actually worried about a big bike killing you? I ride on the larger big bike roads a lot…on my scooter some of the time. And I’ve had many close calls with cars…and none with big bikes. I had a close call with a big bike on a small mountain twisty road…so I tend to avoid those now.
i’ve heard of a death on a big bike… long time ago tho… may have been during the no plate days…
This is the kind of stupid stats that totally mislead people, and that is the reason they are used. Who is at fault for the majority of these 3 people per day being killed by cars hitting scooters, and i am not talking about the fucked up way that blame is apportioned inthis country, but the way blame would be apportioned in any other sensible country.
I imagine that the responsibility would lie well in excess of 50% with the scooter rider, not the car driver.
As an example, i am a passenger in a friends car one evening, we are pulling into a major road in Taipei which is due to a significant road divider a one way street. He actually looks both ways, even though in theory it is not necessary, sees nothing and starts to pull out. Bang, some moron on a scooter coming the wrong way up the strret, no lights, no helmet etc etc, hiys the front wing of his car, sending the rider over the bonnet, landing on his head and killing him, my friend was deemed to be at fault, how fuckiing stupid is that.
But that about sums up the stupidity in the way that mordeth posts, at least in this thread.
This is the kind of stupid stats that totally mislead people, and that is the reason they are used. Who is at fault for the majority of these 3 people per day being killed by cars hitting scooters, and I am not talking about the fucked up way that blame is apportioned inthis country, but the way blame would be apportioned in any other sensible country.
I imagine that the responsibility would lie well in excess of 50% with the scooter rider, not the car driver.
As an example, I am a passenger in a friends car one evening, we are pulling into a major road in Taipei which is due to a significant road divider a one way street. He actually looks both ways, even though in theory it is not necessary, sees nothing and starts to pull out. Bang, some moron on a scooter coming the wrong way up the strret, no lights, no helmet etc etc, hiys the front wing of his car, sending the rider over the bonnet, landing on his head and killing him, my friend was deemed to be at fault, how fuckiing stupid is that.
But that about sums up the stupidity in the way that mordeth posts, at least in this thread. [/quote]
Speaking of stupidity…let me requote something from above…
I’m guessing the majority will argue this…wait a minute…before I start giving examples of the many accidents everyone I know has had where a car at fault hits them…what the hell were we arguing about in the first place?
Ahh, I remember…I said that a speeding bike was less likely to kill someone than a car driving at normal speeds. To which, a couple of people replied that I was either stupid or crazy.
Now…you are saying that “Yeah, cars kill lots of people…but it’s probably the scooters fault for getting hit!” . Ummm, so what? You are still agreeing with my original statement…and that was…A person has a better chance of killing someone (regardless of fault) driving a car normally…than I do, riding a bike fast. Period. And thank you for backing me up with your example of your friend driving his car cautiously and killing someone. If he had been riding a scooter…or showing off on a big bike…that other person would have been still alive today.
That’s another reason why I sold my car recently. I don’t really feel like being partially responsible for someone’s death…well…not unwillingly anyway 
.
So to sum up your posts…and mine. Even though you call me an idiot…your posts back up my original statement which was also refered to as idiotic. Which was “A person has a better chance of killing someone (regardless of fault) driving a car normally…than I do, riding a bike fast”, I realize that’s the second time I wrote that sentence in this post. But something gives me the impression that you are one of those people who things need repeating to. 
I don’t think we are ever going to see things the same way here. I guess in your way of thinking, if you are driving recklessly and slam your big bike into someone’s car, killing yourself, the car killed you.
The guy on the scooter in this example was driving recklessly, at night, going the wrong way on a one way street, without a helmet, and you say that the car driver killed this person. I am beginning to understand how you get your safety statistics for riding bikes. Obviously, the biker is never at fault as long as there is a car driver to blame it on.
[quote=“JMcNeill”]
The guy on the scooter in this example was driving recklessly, at night, going the wrong way on a one way street, without a helmet, and you say that the car driver killed this person. I am beginning to understand how you get your safety statistics for riding bikes. Obviously, the biker is never at fault as long as there is a car driver to blame it on.[/quote]
Nope. What I am saying…and what I did say are in this case are the same thing. And in this case what I did say was that… if your friend had been riding a scooter…the other person wouldn’t have been killed. The fault is obviously the scooter riders. And your friend shouldn’t feel any guilt…I wouldn’t.
I’m just trying to not go off on a tangent, or trying to grasp at threads since the original point I was trying to make is indeed proving itself again and again.
And that was…I’M LESS LIKELY TO BE INVOLVED IN THE DEATH OF ANOTHER BY RIDING MY BIKE FAST…THAN YOU ARE DRIVING A CAR NORMALLY. If I need to repeat that one more time…I’m going to have to start using a larger font size 
.
Only if you live in a perverse and screwed up world. :loco:
Only if you live in a perverse and screwed up world. :loco:[/quote]
Whatever. We got guys trying to argue my point…but they themselves making posts in which their friend takes out HIS CAR…and someone ends up dead.
Shit, taxis are some of the worst and most dangerous drivers on the road. And yet I’m betting most of you still get in taxis right? Me going fast on my bike isn’t half as dangerous as you paying a taxi to drive you somewhere… :bravo:
I don’t know about that. What are the statistics on the fatality rate of passengers in taxis? I normally only take a taxi if I know (or think) I will be drinking. In that case, me taking a taxi is much more safer for everyone than me driving my car or bike.
I think the point most of us are trying to make is that YOU driving like a maniac is much more dangerous to those around YOU than YOU driving normally.
Only if you live in a perverse and screwed up world. :loco:[/quote]
Whatever. We got guys trying to argue my point…but they themselves making posts in which their friend takes out HIS CAR…and someone ends up dead.
Shit, taxis are some of the worst and most dangerous drivers on the road. And yet I’m betting most of you still get in taxis right? Me going fast on my bike isn’t half as dangerous as you paying a taxi to drive you somewhere… :bravo:[/quote]
Seeing as my last comment is as appropriate to this post as it was to the previous post, i will repeat it.
Only if you live in a perverse and screwed up world. :loco:
Using your logic Mordeth, if someone hits a building or some other stationery object, then it is that objects fault, really :loco:
Only 4 peole I knew in my life have been killed in traffic accidents.
The 2 first died as a result of crazy teenage driving in a car going off a cliff.
The 2 others was hit by one motorcycle at high speed when 3 of them were walking along the road. They were killed instantly, but the motorcycle driver and the third friend got only a few minor injuries.
High speed driving with either car or motorcycle can kill both you and others, so don’t be so damned cocky.
Your original point was - My speeding is fully justified and acceptable, because
I don’t see any proof of that.
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You keep clinging to fatalities, silently ignoring my point that NO ACCIDENTS are acceptable. You MUST count in all accidents where damage was done to vehicles, health or life. We may omit the cases that ended in just a few scratches, but only them.
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You mistakenly remove fault from consideration. Vehicles are supposed to drive normally. While they do so, they are not accountable for accidents happening to them. Accidents wouldn’t happen if everyone would drive normally. That means, in Traveller’s example, increase stats counter for reckless scooters, not for normal cars. The scooter was the OFFENDER, the car was the VICTIM, even more so due to idiot judge. Feel the difference. Potential victims are not obliged to avoid possible dangers (but they may choose to do so just to keep themselves safer).
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You confirmed that your stats are home-made, obtained from random assumptions and some general figures. That’s not the way to produce accurate and reliable statistics. Give me figures and formula that you used. Until then, I take your stats as plain wrong.
So here we are. Provocative statement incorrectly derived from wrong source. Your logical chain is flawed in every node.
Now, surprise me, answer in clear and logical manner without skipping most of my points. This thread was an exercise in logic for me, but is becoming another mudslinging contest.
PS: getting in a taxi, I don’t want the diver to act maniacally. I want to get to my destination. If they are all maniacs, the service is flawed, but there’s no comparable alternative. And in case of an accident full blame goes to him. killer_taxies++. If you choose not to support dangerous driving with your money - thumbs up.
personally I see things less black and white than this HGC… and I think the world’s governments do too… of course road networks exist primarily as a transport infrastructure, but they are also fair game for recreational use, riding a bicycle, jogging, riding a motorcycle etc. etc. are all perfectly acceptable uses for a public infrastructure that as a tax payer I help support and maintain… of course these recreational activities regardless of their nature need to be within the general scope of safe and appropriate use that doesn’t put other legitimate road users in danger, but getting your weekend fix zipping around on your motorcycle is just as legitimate a use of public roads than trucking heavy goods or driving to work…
Agreed 100%… but as somebody already pointed out, in Taiwan there are no tracks… not one… ( a topic in and of itself, you’d think a rich country like Taiwan with guys that grow up on 2 wheels would be interested in developing racing talent and facilities that could showcase Taiwan’s potential on the world stage, but I digress)
I think there
Plasmatron, excellen post :bravo:
I just hope that Mordeth realises the truth in it, but i wont be surprised if he does not. 