Staggering labor agent fees for blue collar workers

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

From Topic Thread: [color=#0000BF]Typhoon 2009[/color]:
[color=#4000BF]Lappy[/color] wrote:

“[color=#8080FF]Like the Philippines haven’t had enough already this month, poor bastards.[/color]”

I wish a few Pinoys would respond in kind, but they don’t get the time off.

Re: New Topic Thread:
[color=#BF0040]Staggering labor agent fees for blue collar workers[/color]

[color=#408040]somewhere offshore - not taiwan - not a promotion[/color]

Thanks to moderator for compassion and wisdom … and help needed to open up this great and highly compelling topic // can of worms!

2

Actually that would make more sense to me and I wonder if they just don’t care to ‘mix’, due largely to being stuck in tougher lifestyles here, mostly, as Philippine nationals don’t even get the option to teach legally like the rest of us.

I want to start a thread about what I’d call one of the biggest organized extortion scams running in the Far East … for decades, out of Taiwan … that being ‘sourced’ from the money Indonesians, Pinoys and Thais are required to cough up in the form of staggering labor agent fees, and figuring too that the Philipinos are still at the forefront of activism to challenge this unbelievable suction of cash from those Third World countries … to pay for Mercedes Benzes and such of well-heeled gangsters who the government apparently support … as if they were honest business people providing some kind of genuine service to their client victims.

I can’t even find much in the way of references available on the net. I’d say the network involves somewhere in the range of US$15 million per month in income for these godless fixers.

Sorry to stray off-topic on you. Have a nice day.

[color=#408040]mallard[/color]

3

Mallard, please get a clue before you go off topic, you know, by actually talking to Filipinos.

4

I hold the all time record for non-Filipino tourist visits to the Phils at around 37 since 1983, so please believe me … I do!

Doesn’t mean I’ll ever actually get a grip, so thanks for that reminder as well.

[color=#4000FF]Re: intellicast.com - live current satellite - SE Asia[/color]
intellicast.com/Global/Satel … n=JAXX0058

Sorry, got to run.

5

I also talk to real filipinos.
I find the facts galling. I hear numbers such as one or two out of three years wages go to broker fees. You can’t run away from an employer no matter how abusive - the law is on the employers side all the time. Three months of being locked in the house upon arrival in Taiwan (to prevent running away, apparently). Signing contracts for full time factory work and then being given 3 days a week. Being charged $1000 fines for being late for 10pm curfew in the factory dorms (that you have to pay for). Being hired to care for one elderly person and then having to also clean two (or three) extended families houses every day.
The high unemployment rate in the Philippines (and other SE Asian countries) and the desperation of workers to earn enough to support their children and families back home give the Taiwanese employer absolute power. Taiwanese laws help, of course.
Grr.
Oh yeah, and the plethora of typhoons back home obviously add to the pressure. I get so frustrated, but not sure how to help in a more meaningful way. I do what I can, but it ain’t much.

6

Will the moderator split this into a thread please?

7

Please do split this off, I would rather chew through mallard’s assertions in an on-topic thread versus an off-topic post.

8

Well I don’t doubt that workers from the Phils and other countries do have an extremely rough deal. Still:

  1. Remittances from overseas workers form 10% of the Phils GDP.

  2. A lot of foreign maids here at Lotus Hill seem to have a pretty nice lifestyle, enjoying their cellphones and ipods, chatting to their mates in Tagalog or whatever while pushing some old invalid around the grounds in their wheelchair.

  3. Some of the maids speak excellent Chinese and seem close to their employer families.

Of course it’s essentially slave labour. I find racist pay scales and extortionate commissions quite unacceptable.

9

Actually, the pay scales are not the problem since the minimum wage applies and is entirely reasonable, especially when compared with other nearby countries like Malaysia, which still has no minmum pay scale for ‘imported’ labor.

General contract abrogation, however, involves expected overtime work without compensation, and most domestic helpers are given only one day off a month, not allowed to go out in their off time, but that’s not even the main issue, either, in terms of the virtual slavery that’s become … par for the course.

The primary human rights violations center on the labor fees and the agents who broker contracts deals and who enjoy a veritable monopoly on the hiring process. They basically can’t be circumvented [to date] with much in the way of any direct hiring process.

This is not merely due to the fact that those nationals providing labor services are barred from entering Taiwan as independent visitors/travellers. The Labor Council, or whatever government body regulates the hiring, is apparently also ‘satisfied’ with the standing ‘system’ … requiring those who come here, due to … desperation at home … to fork out between NT$120,000 and NT$ 180,000 as individual desperados, up front. It’s a total scam.

There is no trace of evidence that such costs are commensurate with services rendered in the selection and/or visa application process. It’s all a question of how ‘much’ desperate people are willing to pay out in order to find relief from their original plight.

Then they often start out borrowing the labor fees at also staggering interest rates … in what is another extortion racket.

I’d think, given the overall diplomatic realities, Taiwan might ‘care’ to ease up on the poorer neighboring countries’ GDP ratings, in this manner. It is nothing short of blood-sucking, and these practices do not breed over-all mutual respect in the longrun.

If Taiwan doesn’t come around on humanitarian grounds, the abuse could very well bite them in the hind quarters somewhere down the line. This is a liabilty for Taiwan, not a benefit for good, honest people here.

10

I thought there was a special minimum pay rate, different from the minimum wage that can be paid to Taiwanese employees. From what Mallard says I must have got this wrong.

11

The bulk of the agents’ fees, as I understand it, often goes to the company employing them, as a ‘signing incentive’, though this clearly isn’t the case with those working in private homes.

12

yeah it isn’t fair, but no one is holding a gun to their heads.

and it affords them a comfortable life when they return to the PI.

a lot of Pinoys and Pinays make the choice to come here.

There is a BBC documentary about Indonesians finding work in Malaysia that is actually much more shocking. it can be downloaded off mininova I believe.

13

Maybe the rest of us are not here teaching English. I also know some Pinoy’s who have ARC’s for non teaching and non blue collar work here as well. They also don’t care to post on forums.

14

From my conversations with Filipinos things have changed greatly and they have a far better support network and laws to protect them versus the bad old days.

Now they get to see the contract before they go. The pay is significantly better than what they would get at home and they have a chance to purchase things that would be almost impossible on a Filipino salary such as a house and car. Their kids have money for school and school supplies. They also tend to stay a long time. I’ve met a Filipino who has worked here for 18 years. 7-9 years is not uncommon.

If shit hits the fan they can get help from the catholic church and the CLA. Filipinos are taken care of and overseas Filipinos are a huge source of cash for the Philippines. As far as loans with high interest rates, well those are coming from their own people. Most of the ones I have met have been happy with what work here has helped them build up back home. They do miss their families though.

Indonesian maids may have a rougher deal. Unemployment is 40% in Indonesia, so some work is better than no work.

The main thing you can take away from talking and seeing migrant workers is that most of them are in their position due to their govt in their home countries.

This irrational hatred towards Taiwanese bosses is absurd. There are bad apples in every group. It damn near verges on racism.

15

The labor fee rates are still … unjustified, and whatever cut goes to the employer represents little more than a bribe to maintain the status quo.

16

They surely do miss their families. So many mothers who don’t see their kids growing up at all…

17

The Indonesian women who work around Puli and ones who can be seen strolling wheelchair-bound elderly patrons/matrons around on a sunny afternoon are all … cheerful, sweet, completely reliable, patient and … ‘cautiously’ friendly.

To me, they inspire notions of … a little heaven on earth.

I keep thinking how … someday … I might be able to … move to Sukabumi with one of them, but they’re not allowed to make friends with ‘adoga’. It’s right in their contract.

[color=#8000BF]sukabumi, west java[/color]

18

[quote=“mallard”]The Indonesian women who work around Puli and ones who can be seen strolling wheelchair-bound elderly patrons/matrons around on a sunny afternoon are all … cheerful, sweet, completely reliable, patient and … ‘cautiously’ friendly.

To me, they inspire notions of … a little heaven on earth.

I keep thinking how … someday … I might be able to … move to Sukabumi with one of them, but they’re not allowed to make friends with ‘adoga’. It’s right in their contract.[/quote]

And even if it weren’t it would get them in terrible trouble. Don’t even think about it.

19

What is this dreamy state you are in I mean WTF grow up and realize not everyone gets the same socioeconomic one up you got.

The reason they leave that ideal place is because there ain’t no work, no money for their kid’s schooling and no TV. What is it about lefties and idealizing crushing 3rd world poverty? Why is their so much crushing poverty? Because do gooders give the govts so much money that it allows them to set up a huge patronage system that helps them rob the very people you want to help. coughDead Aidcough :whistle:

Some foreigners specialize in dating Indonesians. They do get out. The problem is that your phone will ring 30-50 times a day, every and I mean every day.

So how much are the labor fee rates right now. I would love to hear you guys moaning about a real problem and not just one that exists in your head.

20

“[color=#404040]So how much are the labor fee rates right now. I would love to hear you guys moaning about a real problem and not just one that exists in your head.[/color]”

I’d say about one third of expatriates in Taiwan are fully prepared to defend whatever system supports them as ‘loyalists’ … who’ll jump on any critcal analysis of social conditions that got thrown out in their own home cultures in the mid-nineteeth century, for good reasons.

Your response is highly subjective, in my opinion. The agents get rich and the government won’t help.