Why are Taiwan's faults always covered up by expats and the press?

[afterspivak]

@ethicalwriter

If what I am saying upsets you or hurts your feelings, then put me on ignore.

Joined two days ago… that escalated quickly!

Guy

[tando]

@nenki

journalists who are based here from foreign organizations.

why they are based here from foreign organizations explains why they are not interested in domestic issues.

[ethicalwriter]

Well, joining two days ago doesn’t mean I just found this site two days ago of course. He appears to be trolling me or have some agenda, so I just cut to the chase. There was nothing that I posted that warranted such an odd response from him.

I’m direct and honest about my support for democratic nations and liberty. I know there are many like myself who are members of this forum.

[afterspivak]

You are preaching to the choir. We’ll excuse that even though you just showed up.

Guy

[SunWuKong]

@ethicalwriter

It’s patronizing to want a fair assessment rather than a broad allegation?

It’s just weird that you walk into a place, read some posts, tell people what the story of how great Taiwan is and then tell them how to talk about. I don’t know where you got the idea anyone in this thread or on this site was not doing that. It just sounds like you’re writing an opinion piece for a newspaper.

@ethicalwriter

He appears to be trolling me or have some agenda

@ethicalwriter

If what I am saying upsets you or hurts your feelings, then put me on ignore.

I only do that for people who constantly with nothing worth reading, but you’re welcome to ignore me if you think I’m trolling. If you know ignore you’ve learned enough about the functions of the site. Maybe get to know the people a little better.

[Charlie_Jack]

I don’t know about the foreign press, but the board has discussed foreign blue-collar worker issues from time to time. Here are some old threads (the board’s gotten so big that I’ve stopped keeping up with things):

More Taiwanese racism (Taoyuan community petitions foreign workers to leave)

taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003543198 [quote]Following recent accusations of discrimination against foreign workers by Taipei Railway Station, another incident of alleged discrimination has surfaced, with about 1,000 residents in a Taoyuan County community petitioning to have 30 Filipino workers move out of the area. Hanging up large banners that read “No to foreign workers in our community,” residents of Rueilian Community (瑞聯社區) in the county’s Bade City (八德) said they did not want the f…

Labor Rights Movement in Taiwan

Dear All, I received the following message which I am passing on; it deals primarily with the labor rights movement in Taiwan specifically in terms of mainland China. One might, however, broaden the issue as well to consider the issue of Taiwanese companies operating (sometimes with impunity) in the PRC and the alleged abuse of many foreign workers on these shores. We have been discussing mainly the difficulty “Westerners” (i.e. those from mainly industrialized countries) have in procuring ARC…

Staggering labor agent fees for blue collar workers

From Topic Thread: [color=#0000BF]Typhoon 2009[/color]: [color=#4000BF]Lappy[/color] wrote: “[color=#8080FF]Like the Philippines haven’t had enough already this month, poor bastards.[/color]” I wish a few Pinoys would respond in kind, but they don’t get the time off. Re: New Topic Thread: [color=#BF0040]Staggering labor agent fees for blue collar workers[/color] [color=#408040]somewhere offshore - not taiwan - not a promotion[/color] [image] Thanks to moderator for compassion and wisdom …

Workers in MRT project go nuts

This is a national disgrace. You are not going to win many friends abroad with this callous treatment of foreigners. Working in a government ministry is even worse. You have to put up with idiots who think they can boss you around and micromanage you because they passed some stupid Examination Yuan test. The CLA should not deport these people for protesting. Human rights as a platform of the current government – my ass. Upset over work and living conditions, thousands attack police, fire fight…

Filipina rights (in Taiwan)?

Coincidentally, I’m plugging this in right next to Fred’s “Middle Eastern women” post… I’m renting a room in a Taiwanese family’s flat. My landlady (the mom) has two filipina maids employed to do pretty much everything in this joint, even “being Mom”. I’ve talked with these two maids about their lives here (in this flat), and I feel sorry for them. Obviously, there is a spectrum of treatment towards maids; some bosses are ruthless slave drivers and some treat the maids as family. From what …

Filipino Migrants Beaten and Deported

I figured we should make a separate thread for this one. here’s press release from the Asia Pacific Mission for Migrants.

Is it legal for a broker to hold someone's passport?

Is it legal for a broker to hold someone’s passport? My wife and I have a Filipino maid (named Lisa) and we gave her permission to go back to the Philippines this summer for a vacation because we will be in the U.S. for a month, so it’s useless for her to stay here in Taiwan when there’s no one else in the house. But her broker (the Taiwanese company that hired her) is holding her passport and refuses to let her have it until she has finished her 3-year contract (1½ years from now). If it is le…

The plight of Philipinos in Taiwan

This morning I heard that one of my friends from the Philippines was deported. Guess how much time he had to pack up. None. He was awoken by his boss at two o’ clock in the morning and told to pack up immediately. His factory’s bus did not pick them up as it normally does and he tried to get to work by himself. Meanwhile, the factory had sent taxis to pick up the workers without them knowing. Because only a handful of workers showed up, there was no production for the entire day. Of all the work…

TW woman indicted for forcing Muslims to eat pork, etc

taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003472644 Quite rightly to punish her. Its not right to force muslims to eat pork, something they cannot eat.

Police Beating of Paul Clark (Part 1)

Just seen on the news - a foreigner (North American, I think judging from the accent) in a police station, face beaten, complaining about police brutality. Video footage (the police’s?) showed the foreigner with a video camera filming something. The cops were trying to stop him, but he kept on doing what he was doing. Cop waves hand in front of camera, foreigner gets fed up and whacks cop in the stomach (not too hard, but he definitely hits him). Three or four cops then go in and hand cuff him. …

Police Beating of Paul Clark (Part 2)

[color=red]Moderator’s Note:[/color] Continued from this thread. For the record I had ONE drink before I went to the police station; a vodka and orange juice while I was watching TV but I was definately NOT drunk. I don’t get drunk. Look at the video; do I look drunk? I don’t think so and that’s because I’m not. Again, I want to point out that I was attacked by the police long before the small clip that you saw. They need the “drunk” story to validate their behaviour.

[SunWuKong]

That’s some old news. That Paul Clark thing was wild. If I remember someone invited him to join, a bunch of people jumped on him, he couldn’t handle it and quit. Weird thing he did, pretending he was from CNN, but for a good cause. I don’t know about then, but there are better ways of handling things like that now. Less obvious cameras too.
I don’t think Forumosa is a good argument to counter the OP’s question. The name could be changed to “Problems in Taiwan and how to find and do things”

[Charlie_Jack]

Here are some snippets from foreign and local news sources (my purpose is not to pick on Taiwan, but rather to show that negative issues concerning Taiwan do get a certain amount of coverage):

The use of labor brokers is common practice in Taiwan. The country has had a long-standing labor shortage and many companies rely on brokers, who solicit recruits and bring workers from places like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, and the Philippines to work in the country’s numerous factories and mills. The practice itself is legal, as is the ability to charge a limited fee for it. But in their audits, Patagonia found that labor brokers were charging workers astronomical sums for the service—as much as $7,000, well over the legal limit. In addition, many workers are charged a monthly fee just to hold onto their jobs, a practice which is also considered legal. Often, between the illegally high initial fees and monthly fees, many employees find themselves in so much debt that they are unable to repay brokers with the meager $630-a-month salaries (the required minimum wage) that factories pay.

–Gillian B. White, “All Your Clothes Are Made With Exploited Labor,” The Atlantic, June 30, 2015

Migrant workers from Indonesia, Vietnam and the Philippines staged separate protests in Taipei on Sunday to demand the abolishment of all placement agencies and the enforcement of a compulsory government-to-government hiring system.“Migrant workers in Taiwan demand abolishment of broker system”

–Central News Agency, “Migrant workers in Taiwan demand abolishment of broker system,” China Post, November 4, 2019

The quote immediately below is from an article posted earlier in this thread by @lostinasia

Supri, who like many Indonesians has only one name, says in a phone interview with National Geographic that the captain attacked him five times. The assaults, Supri says, included his being locked in a freezer when he was still wet from having taken a shower, and being beaten, sprayed in the face with a hose, and shocked with an electric stun gun.

–Rachel Fobar, “Wildlife crimes and human rights abuses plague Taiwanese fishing vessels, crews say,” National Geographic, November 25, 2020

At least 40 Filipino graduate students at Yu Da University of Science and Technology (YDU) have allegedly been forced to work at a tile factory in Miaoli since April last year, Democratic Progressive Party Legislator Chang Liao Wan-chien (張廖萬堅) said yesterday.

–Ann Maxon/staff reporter, “Filipino students forced to work, lawmaker says,” Taipei Times, March 5, 2019

Tens of thousands of migrant fishermen are thought to be employed on Taiwan-owned vessels, and their plight has been reported by international media and repeatedly highlighted in the annual Trafficking in Persons report issued by the U.S. Department of State.

Many of those fishermen are reported to have suffered physical abuse, poor working conditions and been underpaid and overworked.

–Yeh Su-ping, Joseph Yeh, Ko Lin and Christie Chen, “European Union removes Taiwan from illegal fishery watch list,” China Post, June 28, 2019

As ultimatums go, it was stark - but migrant workers say such life-changing dilemmas are on the rise in Taiwan as thousands of domestic laborers are drawn to the country by the promise of work, at times with only a veil of rights.

“Far from fair, equal or just” - that’s how Lennon Ying-dah Wong, of local NGO Serve the People Association (SPA), describes the lot of migrant workers in Taiwan.

–Nick Aspinwall, “Baby or a job? Stark choice for Taiwan’s migrant workers,” Thomson Reuters Foundation, December 17, 2019

[tando]

Some more

African students exploited for ‘slave labor’ at Taiwan factory - TheGrio

How Taiwan Became an Accessory to Slavery on the High Seas - 報導者 The Reporter

Floating Hells: Forced Labor of Migrant Workers on Taiwan’s Fishing Vessels |...

https://www.ihrb.org/focus-areas/migrant-workers/commentary-forced-labour-trafficking-taiwanese-distant-water-fishing-industry

Those issues have been reported in English. People are just not much interested in them.

[Charlie_Jack]

@tando

Those issues have been reported in English. People are just not much interested in them.

Yep. Taiwan tends to be under the radar for both the good and the bad.

[Brianjones]

The air quality problem is due to ‘stagnation’ folks.

Yep that must be the problem.

[tando]

@nenki

a writer based in Taiwan write extensively on foreign workers abuse or environmental problems.

a writer wrote on environmental problems. Whether it can be deactivated extensively or not may be subjective, though.

Nate Maynard - Latest - The News Lens International Edition

[DCardinal]

The elephant in the room - a worrying demographic problem with no easy fix or motivation to do anything about it (immigrant workers don’t count).

[nenki]

Thanks for pulling up these threds but I did not have Forumosa in mind when I said some expats. I was thinking more other sites like reddit where so much of the posts are about trivial or sunshiney stuff.

[Tianmu]

@OysterOmelet

I don’t live in Taiwan.

With all due respect, this explains a lot.

[Tianmu]

@nenki

Thanks for pulling up these threds but I did not have Forumosa in mind when I said some expats. I was thinking more other sites like reddit where so much of the posts are about trivial or sunshiney stuff.

Perhaps it’s because I’m on this forum and not on reddit, but I didn’t realize there was any shortage of expats discussing Taiwan’s faults. I feel like people in general (myself included) are pretty good at complaining about any place they live.

[tando]

@nenki

when I said some expats. I was thinking more other sites like reddit where so much of the posts are about trivial or sunshiney stuff.

I’ve thought there are not much of long term expats in Taiwan, but many are travelers or recent arrivals or ABTs in US.

[SunWuKong]

@nenki

reddit where so much of the posts are about trivial or sunshiney stuff

Yeah, the subreddit may as well be run by ministry of tourism. They ban you if you don’t follow their narrative.

[nenki]

@SunWuKong

They ban you if you don’t follow their narrative.

Are you serious? Jeeez, I didn’t know it was that bad.

[SunWuKong]

Well, I’m using absurdity for demonstrative effect, but they do stick to the narrative. It may be overstating to say that they ban people for that reason only. The community are Taiwan true-believers and the mods push that narrative. Posting something negative alone won’t get you banned, but defending it hard might and the mods are more lenient to the “Taiwan is great” camp. Independence-skeptics are downvoted into nonexistence. That’s true on most social media, though.