[quote]
In a sleek uptown nightclub, the queen is holding court. At her dinner table, men hang on her every word, and women echo her pearly laugh as she raises a wine glass in a toast.
Tonight’s dinner is limited to 50 paying guests, most of them female, attractive and single. This is the demographic that can’t get enough of the queen—born Chen Yi-li, though she refashioned herself as “Illy” after the Italian coffee brand. Her sassy tales of righteous freedom, which have been spun into three books and inspired a TV soap opera, make her an icon of sorts for Taiwan’s young female “singletons,” who see marriage and motherhood as a straitjacket.[/quote]
Odd, my first thought here was, "Uh hmm…so they can go on stupid trips with extremely boring people (usually classmates from junior high or work colleagues) and post endless stupid pictures of every bloody piece of food they ate at every bloody restaurant, every nook and cranny of their hotel room “spiced up” with pictures taken of themselves by themselves or group pictures doing daft things like jumping up and down, although always with the two finger salute.
Wow! Wonderful trade off.
But not one to jump to conclusions I read on.
Ok. To each his (or her) own. But I sure hope they make enough money to support themselves 100 percent from retirement to the grave, because once I get the vote I’ll be going with the guys who push for the following:
And I’ll be voting for the guys who push for reforms where my kids don’t have to pay for their (the “glorious” singles) social benefits.
Good, because they’re gonna need it.
After my knee jerk reaction was over and I read that, I thought, “Yeah, I see their POV.” If I was a young, single, educated and successful Taiwanese woman I would feel the same way.
Totally agree. Can’t say I blame Ms. Jiang.
Need I say more?
One thought, though. Why do these women always get so angry when you break up with them? That’s the part I don’t get…
And what they forget about that show is that two of the four women where mother and daughter. The daughter having already had her own family, also. The same with the other two old girls. So not really the same thing, is it?
Bit off topic, but I couldn’t help wondering, is that fluent as in she can actually speak Spanish with a Spaniard, or fluent as in adult students you find in Taiwan that can’t answer a basic question after more than a decade of “studying”.
And so we come full circle.
It’s a profession? I thought they were single because they were successful professionals and didn’t want to…oh never mind…
I don’t know what’s scarier; That she can support herself with this, that 100 000 people forked out money for a self indulgent book of a young woman’s tales of the single life peppered with pictures not unlike those above, that nine and a quarter million people have visited her wretch photo album, or that she’s giving advice on relationships.
What career? She lives with her parents. Writes drivel (that people surprisingly buy), blogs, takes the same trips millions of other people take and posts pictures of herself taking pictures of herself (with the V sign), every nook and cranny of the room she stayed in and group shots with other people doing boring and vapid stuff.
I don’t get it. I’m all for women being educated, successful and independent. But what they’re touting as a “singleton success story” and the spokesperson for this “lifestyle” is far from my idea of what that entails.
But I can totally understand why modern Taiwanese women wouldn’t want to be tied down in a traditional marriage with a snippy and abusive MIL, married to a guy that will never stand up to his mum in defense of his wife, have all her freedoms eroded, becoming nothing more than a breeding machine with her heard earned education wasted.
And seeing as not all Taiwanese guys fall into that category, it’s good to hear about young women being more circumspect in terms of who they choose to marry, if ever. I have several local female friends like that, but they are way more interesting than this Queen bird. A lot more successful, too, as they own their own homes, live alone and independently and some have their own successful companies.
To be clear, it’s really just the article I don’t like (and I think their “spokesperson” is vapid, albeit kinda hot), not the idea of personal freedom, success and independence.
Edit: I have gained one thing out of it, though. I reckon I should get one of these Wretch accounts. It seems you can upload literally thousands of pictures. Damn! I could free up my entire photo album on my hard drive.
I didn’t care for the article either, especially the kicker which to a Western mind didn’t make sense. So she’s a single woman in a relationship? That’s like saying you’re just a little bit preggers. :no-no: For me the article, written in the context for the Western reader, doesn’t make sense. If anything, I’d toss this chic and her “single” friends/grouppies in the Paris Hilton/Kim Kardashian files. They really aren’t doing much but looking good, shopping and playing around. Okay you keep a well-read blog (not an easy feat) and have been published. But other than that, I didn’t get a sense that this is really a movement of sorts. Something with substance. Just because the birth rate is low, I don’t think that’s a full connection to women who are delaying marriage because of an ideal, IMO.
Could the article included a few more “authentic” voices, like women who have been single and aren’t ever considering it and who are established in “traditional” careers? Sure. Or how about that good ole feminist scholar who studies this for a living? That would have worked for me.
Wow bismarck you had a lot to say. Thanks!
Odd, my first thought here was, "Uh hmm…so they can go on stupid trips with extremely boring people (usually classmates from junior high or work colleagues) and post endless stupid pictures of every bloody piece of food they ate at every bloody restaurant, every nook and cranny of their hotel room “spiced up” with pictures taken of themselves by themselves or group pictures doing daft things like jumping up and down, although always with the two finger salute.
Wow! Wonderful trade off.[/quote] Well, if that’s in your culture, that may be great. IMO, you’re being truthful, but from a Western point of view. I guess we (general) need to understand why this is entertainment and fulfilling for these women.
[quote]But not one to jump to conclusions I read on.
Ok. To each his (or her) own. But I sure hope they make enough money to support themselves 100 percent from retirement to the grave, because once I get the vote I’ll be going with the guys who push for the following:
And I’ll be voting for the guys who push for reforms where my kids don’t have to pay for their (the “glorious” singles) social benefits.[/quote] Err, that’s a bit out of bounds. Did you ever think that marriage is a choice and that the benefits support or rather sustain the infrastructure? If we start saying you can’t have benefits because you didn’t go along with the herd then there’s another population you still will have to “support” in some form/fashion.
[quote] Need I say more?
One thought, though. Why do these women always get so angry when you break up with them? That’s the part I don’t get…[/quote] well that sounds personal there But my thought was Jiang dates guys who may be apt to still be growing in to what they want or are just out to play. There’s a price for that–Western or Asian culture…
[quote]It’s a profession? I thought they were single because they were successful professionals and didn’t want to…oh never mind…
Way to be free and independent! [/quote] is there any other true option in the context of TW culture?
[quote] I don’t know what’s scarier; That she can support herself with this, that 100 000 people forked out money for a self indulgent book of a young woman’s tales of the single life peppered with pictures not unlike those above, that nine and a quarter million people have visited her wretch photo album, or that she’s giving advice on relationships. [/quote] Err, I can think of other people who are shelling out money for self-indulgent books or writing blogs or dishing out “silly” advice about nothing “nothing” (GOOP is Gwyneth Paltrow’s)
[quote]What career? She lives with her parents. Writes drivel (that people surprisingly buy), blogs, takes the same trips millions of other people take and posts pictures of herself taking pictures of herself (with the V sign), every nook and cranny of the room she stayed in and group shots with other people doing boring and vapid stuff.[/quote] Well, that kicker just undid the article…So, she’s really not single. Okay then what was this about? A chic with a popular book and large following who figured out away to get major face-- err attention? Yep. Or the author wants to “get with her”.
[quote]I don’t get it. I’m all for women being educated, successful and independent. But what they’re touting as a “singleton success story” and the spokesperson for this “lifestyle” is far from my idea of what that entails.
[quote] But I can totally understand why modern Taiwanese women wouldn’t want to be tied down in a traditional marriage with a snippy and abusive MIL, married to a guy that will never stand up to his mum in defense of his wife, have all her freedoms eroded, becoming nothing more than a breeding machine with her heard earned education wasted.
And seeing as not all Taiwanese guys fall into that category, it’s good to hear about young women being more circumspect in terms of who they choose to marry, if ever. I have several local female friends like that, but they are way more interesting than this Queen bird. A lot more successful, too, as they own their own homes, live alone and independently and some have their own successful companies.[/quote][/quote] You could make a comment on WSJ’s boards about it. That would really help.
That’s what I was thinking. I kept thinking about a few girls I’ve known in Taiwan (just friends) that actually did choose to live the single life, all of whom were successful and totally independent. One is actually in Australia now, doing a years working holiday. She was actually a nurse straight out of college, did that for a year or two in a maternity ward, decided she didn’t like nursing, marriage and didn’t want kids. Went back to college and did a business degree. Moved up to Taipei and worked there in a MNC for a few years, and now she’s taking a gap year in Oz.
haha…I had a slow evening (wife’s working night shifts)…
That’s something I would also like to know, but the article really failed there. :s
True enough.
[quote]It’s a profession? I thought they were single because they were successful professionals and didn’t want to…oh never mind…
Way to be free and independent! [/quote] is there any other true option in the context of TW culture?[/quote]
Sure. I know people who choose not to live with there parents precisely because they want to be independent. However, they are a pretty small minority for the most part. I’ve known several people who purposefully took jobs in other cities just to avoid the family pressure of having to live at home. It’s not common, though (island wide). Although, it may be more so in Taipei.
[quote]haha…I had a slow evening (wife’s working night shifts)… [/quote] I’m not gonna go there…
[quote]It’s a profession? I thought they were single because they were successful professionals and didn’t want to…oh never mind…
Way to be free and independent! [/quote] is there any other true option in the context of TW culture?[/quote]
[quote]Sure. I know people who choose not to live with there parents precisely because they want to be independent. However, they are a pretty small minority for the most part. I’ve known several people who purposefully took jobs in other cities just to avoid the family pressure of having to live at home. It’s not common, though (island wide). Although, it may be more so in Taipei.[/quote] Good point…See the only person I know of doing this did get married but had lived the single life abroad. However, that’s not full view of a cultural practice.
[quote] Ummm… Who or what is WSJ?[/quote]Wall Street Journal
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Sounds like a regular at the Carnegies “Meat the Wai Guo” nights.[/quote] I shutter to think what the tatter tots look like… Perhaps less attractive friends serving as a wingman/woman?
If they are in their infancy, I shutter to think what the US is in…
I know this “Queen” as she keeps a blog on United Daily News.
If you had the chance to read some of her works, she does a pretty good job blasting the men while
glorifies living as a single woman. No wonder she has so many young women in their 20s as devout followers.
Frankly, I don’t give a damn about her writings or beliefs, that is, until I saw her on various TV talk shows claiming
how nice she is to her boyfriend, and how she listens to him and acting like a perfect little wife, blah blah blah…
What a freaking hypocrite when you compare her act on TV and her supreme feminist writings. Sadly, as I found out after coming back to Taiwan, a fairly large percentage of girls do follow her writings religiously, thus putting out any remaining desire of
marrying my own people.
Oh well, I could always go back overseas or even consider heading to the mainland.
Well there is a reason why so many vietnamese and chinese and indonesian brides in Taiwan. The local girls have become too well educated for a lot of the local menfolk.
A lot of them dont want to toe the line anymore regarding the traditional TW housewife role. And are looking to marry westerners, Japanese , ABCs or not at all, until just that right guy comes along. Too many conditions, etc.
This woman is making a name for herself about the single life but shes now heading the other way herself.
The funny thing is, as a US educated Taiwanese myself, I could relate to many of her ideas and
can support the idea of a more non-traditional marriage life with more freedom for the wife.
It is her writings which obviously showed her as a man-hater which ticked me off. I would hate to see
more and more young girls influenced by such a hypocritical author who cannot get enough of her boyfriend.
The Taiwanese society needs some fundamental changes. Arts and literature should not be looked at as a “trade” - this is depressing. Just because you didn’t go to an arts and trade school like Fuxing Meigong it doesn’t mean you can’t take good photos or coordinate colors. Just because you didn’t go to Cheng-Da and get a degree in political science it doesn’t mean you can’t write a well-composed political commentary with actual arguments and well thought-out logic structure.
There’s something wrong when parents read Chinglish translations of Warren Buffett’s books to kids at a young age (this is probably true as those finance-type self-help books seem to be all modern imports Eslite and Costco carry) and single women think it’s so cool and liberating to take pictures of food and make dumb poses by themselves in front of a point-and-shoot digital cam. Then they have to go on and blog about it, all on one goddamn annoying website using the standard templates provided by the hosting server and they all manage to play some sappy, annoying love ballads, most of which all eventually sound the same anyways.
While all of this is happening, you still see tidbits on how much they loathe not having some form of intimate companionship by their side for those “extremely rare” moments that they do need a pair of muscular arms to hold them while they cry and complain about how repressed and paternal their society is.
I’m sorry, I’m all for women’s rights but I simply don’t find how seemingly nonconforming she is and how that merits praises and media attention when everybody else is exactly the same way. Although to be fair this phenomenon most likely isn’t unique to Taiwan, but I mean, come on, at least try to do more interesting things. Heck, if high school kids in Borington, Pennsylvania can come up with stuff like sexting their bffs, I’m sure Taiwanese girls could do much better. Then at the time make it a media frenzy for all I care and I might even raise a glass of champagne towards your general direction and salute to you.
This just feeds into the idea that Taiwanese women are the cause of the low fertility rate by not wanting to be properly preggers, barefoot, and in the chufang under mom-in-law’s thumb.
Simon Montlake had a really good article in WSJ yesterday on this, and pointed out that Vietnamese brides – supposedly brought in because they liked having kids – have exactly the same birth rates that Taiwan brides do. People like The Queen may get the publicity, but the real problem is the cultural and structural features of child-raising – too expensive and too much hassle in child-unfriendly Taiwan.
Odd, my first thought here was, "Uh hmm…so they can go on stupid trips with extremely boring people (usually classmates from junior high or work colleagues) and post endless stupid pictures of every bloody piece of food they ate at every bloody restaurant, every nook and cranny of their hotel room “spiced up” with pictures taken of themselves by themselves or group pictures doing daft things like jumping up and down, although always with the two finger salute.
Wow! Wonderful trade off.
But not one to jump to conclusions I read on.
Ok. To each his (or her) own. But I sure hope they make enough money to support themselves 100 percent from retirement to the grave, because once I get the vote I’ll be going with the guys who push for the following:
And I’ll be voting for the guys who push for reforms where my kids don’t have to pay for their (the “glorious” singles) social benefits.
Good, because they’re gonna need it.
After my knee jerk reaction was over and I read that, I thought, “Yeah, I see their POV.” If I was a young, single, educated and successful Taiwanese woman I would feel the same way.
Totally agree. Can’t say I blame Ms. Jiang.
Need I say more?
One thought, though. Why do these women always get so angry when you break up with them? That’s the part I don’t get…
And what they forget about that show is that two of the four women where mother and daughter. The daughter having already had her own family, also. The same with the other two old girls. So not really the same thing, is it?
Bit off topic, but I couldn’t help wondering, is that fluent as in she can actually speak Spanish with a Spaniard, or fluent as in adult students you find in Taiwan that can’t answer a basic question after more than a decade of “studying”.
And so we come full circle.
It’s a profession? I thought they were single because they were successful professionals and didn’t want to…oh never mind…
I don’t know what’s scarier; That she can support herself with this, that 100 000 people forked out money for a self indulgent book of a young woman’s tales of the single life peppered with pictures not unlike those above, that nine and a quarter million people have visited her wretch photo album, or that she’s giving advice on relationships.
What career? She lives with her parents. Writes drivel (that people surprisingly buy), blogs, takes the same trips millions of other people take and posts pictures of herself taking pictures of herself (with the V sign), every nook and cranny of the room she stayed in and group shots with other people doing boring and vapid stuff.
I don’t get it. I’m all for women being educated, successful and independent. But what they’re touting as a “singleton success story” and the spokesperson for this “lifestyle” is far from my idea of what that entails.
But I can totally understand why modern Taiwanese women wouldn’t want to be tied down in a traditional marriage with a snippy and abusive MIL, married to a guy that will never stand up to his mum in defense of his wife, have all her freedoms eroded, becoming nothing more than a breeding machine with her heard earned education wasted.
And seeing as not all Taiwanese guys fall into that category, it’s good to hear about young women being more circumspect in terms of who they choose to marry, if ever. I have several local female friends like that, but they are way more interesting than this Queen bird. A lot more successful, too, as they own their own homes, live alone and independently and some have their own successful companies.
To be clear, it’s really just the article I don’t like (and I think their “spokesperson” is vapid, albeit kinda hot), not the idea of personal freedom, success and independence.
Edit: I have gained one thing out of it, though. I reckon I should get one of these Wretch accounts. It seems you can upload literally thousands of pictures. Damn! I could free up my entire photo album on my hard drive.[/quote]
I was gonna post, but GD it, Bismarck fucking nailed it. :bravo:
The truth of the matter is Taiwanese women are hardwired to get married, it is deeply entrenched in them at an early age that they’re worthless without a man to grow old with.
While this young lass and others of her ilk may have fun in their late twenties and even early thirties frolicking about, championing the single life (fraudulently anyways since ‘I Am Queen’ :roflmao: is in a two year relationship and contemplating marriage), she is going to wake up one morning realize she is thirty something and want nothing else but to get married. It is simply the culture here, and you can only deny who you are for so long.
The good news for you single foreign men out there is that some of these girls will realize this too late, and the TW men will see them as too old so they will be hitting the waiguo haunts looking for a bit of companionship.
But my thought was Jiang dates guys who may be apt to still be growing in to what they want or are just out to play. There’s a price for that–Western or Asian culture…
Ummm… Who or what is WSJ?
Ummm… Who or what is WSJ?[/quote]Wall Street Journal
You will sleep better on a double.