A new bill making it illegal to buy, sell, or possess steel-jaw traps (a common torture device used to trap animals for their fur) has passed in Taiwan. Pamela Anderson and PETA Asia-Pacific sent a bouquet of flowers to legislator Ting Shou-chung.
Job well done by many animal activists on here, Stray Dog included.
I saw these in my local DIY store the other day. What really pisses me off is that they are completely useless for the intended purpose (keeping predators away from chickens and/or small herbivores off vegetables). I was under the impression they had been illegal for a long time, but apparently not … so it’s a good thing I didn’t have a go at the 老闆. Still, if I see them there next month I’ll be having a word with the police (who will then proceed to :roflmao: and make jokes about the funny foreigner after I’ve gone).
If the bill has passed, does that mean it is in immediate effect? Or is there some delay before it can be enforced?
Its about time. Those things cause a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering. Many years ago there was a wild cat that we were feeding on a daily basis in wanli. Very nice cat, did nobody any harm. It was full grown but wild so I couldnt get too close to her. But we fed her for years and enjoyed her “company” , although at a distance.
One day we didnt see her for days, then I saw her one nite with a torn off paw. She had been trapped by one of those traps I think. I didnt see her again and am sure she died in the night.
Shouldnt have happened, needed have happened.
Well, the next time myself or one of my dogs almost steps into one, I will remember this new piece of legislation and consider how it has absolutely no effect on the sale or use of these malicious items. You mark my words, it won’t change a damn thing.
I suppose it’s the thought that counts though.
[quote=“Super Hans”]Well, the next time myself or one of my dogs almost steps into one, I will remember this new piece of legislation and consider how it has absolutely no effect on the sale or use of these malicious items. You mark my words, it won’t change a damn thing.
I suppose it’s the thought that counts though.[/quote]
Don’t be so damn negative at least Taiwan is moving in the right direction. There is no pleasing some moaning foreigners is there? And yes it can change things; not cure them but a gradual reduction should come about. WELL DONE TAIWAN.
I think that Super Hans was being ironic and relatively realistic. I agree that it’s a step in the right direction and so does he, fenlander, but to believe that this legislation will be enforced is plainly naive. It may be cynical, but Taiwan has yet to prove to me that it takes these things seriously. Until such time, I shall remain sceptical. 
It will make a small change. Step by step Confucian stylee.
With Taiwanese characteristics.
Yeah, they legalized soap way back in the Japanese colonial era but you’d never know it.
[quote=“antarcticbeech”][quote=“tomthorne”]It will make a small change. Step by step Confucian stylee.[/quote]the
Yeah, they legalized soap way back in the Japanese colonial era but you’d never know it.[/quote]
Dude, you can’t rush progress. Unless said progress makes obscene amounts of money in which case…
Not naive AT ALL. I speak from a postion of experience on the subject I feel it is naive of you to think that it will not be enforced. The answer is somewhere in the middle and generally depends on whether the person reporting it makes an annonymous phone call or actually goes and reports it AND follows up on it.
Legislation is often enforced here. I have reported the location of two steel traps in the Riverside Park the owners of both plots of lands were fined and the traps removed with me standing there watching. This was before the present legislation. There are many cases in Taiwan where prosecutions for animal cruelty have been succesful. Laws can work here and they do frequently if a person has the balls to report it. I reported a horse being abused here and within 48 hours the owner was fined, the horse was put into better conditions, and the animal has periodic check ups to make sure it is still being cared for. That is three cases that I have personally been involed in. Laws can work here and can be enforced just get off your arses and report it. This in my experience is far better than what goes on in the UK
So many foreigners come here and criticize Taiwan on animal rights yet the UK is no better and probably worse.
“Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3721871/Shocking-pig-abuse-at-abattoir.html
Massive strides not small steps have been taken in Taiwan to prevent animal cruelty when I first came to Taiwan over twenty years ago this was the situation
Cock fighting under the Taipei bridge
Dog fighting in many parks in Taipei county on Sunday morning with children walking around
Monkey’s chained up and beaten with sticks
A tiger was chained up in Kaoshung and had its heart cut out while alive in front of thousands of people who then began to eat Tiger soup
All kinds of exotic animals for sale everywhere
Rhino horn widely available as was bear paw soup
Now a days for example dog fighting and cock fighting has been isolated to the underworld. It is subject to a heavy fine and a prison sentence AND it IS enforced. Taiwan is moving to be one of Asia’s leading countries for animal welfare legislation AND enforcement.
Hey, I’ve done this so many times in Taiwan. The last time I tried to report something it had something to do with a government worker and I ended up being sued. I won’t be reporting anything again, it’s not worth it. Forgive me for being cynical.
And legislation is often not enforced here. The reason the person was fined is because the traps were there, on the person’s land. You try going up into the mountains and then reporting traps on trails. I got laughed at, so now I just activate them and then chuck them into the undergrowth.
While your horse story is very good to hear about - and while I agree there is some improvement with the enforcement of some legislation, you have absolutely no grounds to say that laws regarding animal rights are better than in the UK. For a start, the story that you have linked to has shows footage from one of a multitude of animal rights groups active in the UK. In Taiwan, I can’t think of any really organized groups that actually protest and cause trouble. Also, the footage in question was shot illegally, meaning it was a technicality which stopped the court from prosecuting, not because the court does not care about the treatment of animals for slaughter.
Secondly, traps have been outlawed in the UK for decades.
Thirdly, the RSPCA does a great job in bringing prosecutions to the very few people who actually do abuse animals in the UK.
I don’t see huge dogs with thick fur chained up in terrible heat 365 days a year in the UK. I don’t see 25 rabbits in a foot square container being sold at a market. i don’t see snakes being peeled alive for an audience.
And to prove my point, I didn’t see any of this in the UK over the last 20 years, which was about as long as my stay in the UK and Europe. Why should there have been legislation to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the first place? Why do people need laws in the 21st century for them to not hurt animals?
By the way, I know a place which engages in cock fighting very blatantly - in full view of the public and on a main public road. Last year I reported this and nothing was done, except that i got flack from some of the locals who suspected it was me who reported them - yeah, whoever received the complaint went and told the cock fighters that a foreigner has reported them for cock fighting, but did FA about it. If you like, I’ll take pictures and post them here for you to see - it’s a place where birds are reared and fought.
May be I can take you to have a look and YOU can report it.
I’m not being critical of Taiwan, fenlander - and some my posts may seem negative, but until I see real progress and blanket enforcement on the laws and legislation made in Taiwan, I will be cynical. Granted, things take time as they do in all countries, but I have to say in Taiwan legislation usually means enforcement for a week and then a blind eye turned.
Keep ranting, Hans. Good post - and that (above) is the point. 200 years ago when we were still burning witches, doing unspeakable things to cats, and gambling on cockfights in Europe, our main excuse was that pretty much every country on the planet was doing the same thing. We were no more or less uncivilised than anywhere else; we were a brutalised society and we didn’t know any different. These days, people are disgusted by animal cruelty because it’s simply subhuman - not because they’re afraid of being fined. Sadly, those attitudes have yet to reach this little island, even though the Taiwanese can now observe any number of well-functioning societies which (mostly) no longer abuse animals.
As for traps: they’re still openly on sale in my DIY store (in fact they seem to have more than ever). Is it worth reporting them? No, because as I noted elsewhere, the police are not there to enforce the law. Like much of the stuff copied from the west in Taiwan, the police force is like one of those buildings on a old western movie set: very realistic frontage, but nothing behind it. They created a simulacrum of policing, but never really grasped the point of it. Besides, as Hans just said, the law must be imposed by mutual consent. If 95% of the population don’t understand that traps are cruel, stupid, and completely ineffective (except at causing mayhem) then the law is going to fail.
So forgive my cynicism too. Yes, it is heartening to hear the stories you mention (and there is still plenty of cruelty going on in the UK, for example, especially on farms). But that doesn’t mean everything is now just fine.
[quote=“Super Hans”]Thirdly, the RSPCA does a great job in bringing prosecutions to the very few people who actually do abuse animals in the UK.
[/quote]
From the RSPCA website:
[quote]Animal cruelty is a huge problem
Every year, thousands of animals in England and Wales suffer from abuse and neglect. In 2010 the RSPCA investigated almost 160,000 complaints of alleged animal cruelty, over 10 per cent more than in 2009.
…Last year the RSPCA successfully prosecuted 1,114 defendants.[/quote]
Sounds like more than a few.
The UK and Ireland are just as bad.
Badger baiting
dog fighting
cock fighting
hare coursing
trapping’
snaring
factory farms
dog racing industry
deer hunting
…
Enforcement is very poor in the UK and convictions are fairly rare (compared to the amount of cases in total) too in fact I’d take a guess that success rate is less than in Taiwan
independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr … 58620.html
Oh and Hans how long have you been in Taiwan? 10 years? If so that is not long enough. I was first here as a teenager in the 80’s and things have improved A LOT.
This one made my blood boil
WARNING ON LINK BELOW IT IS UPSETTING
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370050/Britains-circus-elephant-Anne-Battered-kicked-stabbed.html
Cynicism-justified inaction is a perfect recipe for continuation of the status quo.
Making change happen (regardless of your level of cynicism) starts with determination to get things changed, and action on your part.
Report it by calling 1999 in Taibei, and the city government will notify the police, which seems to compel the police to take action. That is, a call to 1999 seems (to me) to be less likely to get ignored than a direct call to the police. That said, when it comes to animal abuse and neglect, we have had good luck with the police here.
I would take a different approach, of assuming they will do something, and if they don’t, encouraging or even cajoling them to do something. Bring your district head (li2zhang3) into it, if necessary. Call your legislative reps if needed. Call some reporters and make a story out of it, to publicly embarrass both the police and the trap seller. Whatever it takes. Some posters here have gone further than that, and simply confiscated such traps and walked away. Whatever it takes.
Taipei is a whole different story - I agree that 1999 is useful, and things do tend to happen. This is out in the sticks (farming country) where I can walk along the road and get barked at by at least 20 mutts in cages or on too-short chains, with no water bowl in the blazing sun, and the scooters running red lights often have a policeman sitting on them. But you’re right of course - I suppose I should at least give it a try, although as regards the more direct (and less anonymous) solutions, I’m not prepared to risk ending up blind or paraplegic after the local farming co-operative takes offence. There’s one particular guy with a field near mine who I know would fight tooth and nail to remain firmly entrenched in the 19th century.
EDIT - occurs to me that the organic movement, which seems to be taking off in Taiwan, might be a big boost to animal welfare. Farmers are slowly starting to realise that if you have a pest problem, it’s usually because you’re doing something wrong, and killing the pest just makes room for more of them to move in. I remember a news report from a few years back about some guy who had set up an illegal fruit farm in the forest, and his fruit was getting pillaged by monkeys. Duh. Set up a sodding monkey buffet in the forest and you’re going to get a lot of guests. The funny bit was that it was a sympathy pitch for this poor hard-working farmer who was having his hard work destroyed by vermin. That mindset is definitely changing now.
Fenlander, while I take on board what you say, what is perceived as animal cruelty and the legislation surrounding it in the UK is vastly different to that in Taiwan. In Taiwan. many people think nothing of beating a dog to within an inch of it’s life. I know of several places where pigs are kept in appalling conditions and factory farms are extremely common. There are few rules in place to prevent people from mistreating animals and the rules that are in place are rarely enforced - if there are no rules to break, then nobody is breaking any, and therefore nobody to convict. In the UK and other countries, at least the legislation is there and there is at least an outside chance of prosecution if somebody gets caught doing something. However, I seriously doubt that the conviction rate in the UK is less than the conviction rate in Taiwan. I will try to do a search when I have time, but as you mentioned it, it is up to you to come up with the goods - but if you can, then I will be pleasantly surprised.
As a side-note, what they did to that elephant is just disgraceful and if I were a judge I’d have them made into dog food, the Chavvy scumbags.
[quote=“dragonbones”]Cynicism-justified inaction is a perfect recipe for continuation of the status quo.
Making change happen (regardless of your level of cynicism) starts with determination to get things changed, and action on your part. [/quote]
Done. But when that results in passiveness and eventually to a rusty plank of wood being swung at you (granted, the guy who did it was more harm to himself than to me), then there is little else you can do. I tried my best, but I am not going to risk paint on my car and the brake lines of my scooter savaged. People firstly need to be educated that how they do something or how they behave is wrong, or they need to somehow come to that conclusion themselves. In some cultures, what we perceive as wrong is not wrong to them.
In Taiwan, I feel like a dog is treated merely as property. To me, a dog is a life that I have to care for and a life that I can enjoy and be a part of. I myself am not going to be able to influence how people perceive another life, whether on four legs or two.
Compared to almost 70 000 000 residents, that is “a few” although obviously it is still far too many. You also have to weigh in whether the complaints had any merit or not, which we can’t tell from the information given.
Compared to almost 70 000 000 residents, that is “a few” although obviously it is still far too many. You also have to weigh in whether the complaints had any merit or not, which we can’t tell from the information given.[/quote]
Ah, the sight of shifting goalposts. 
But anyway, the problem with your position here is that it is overly subjective and seems mostly based upon a few bad incidents you’ve had. I’ve had some too, including futile attempts to get abuses stopped that really left me miserable and angry for a long time (I don’t do cynicism). But you’d have to be clueless not to have seen a sea change over the past decade as fenlander has written. For every bad incident you’ve had there are a dozen animal protection groups formed, or reports of people turning in their neighbors. For every asshole dropping off his dog there are aixin mamas of all ages out their feeding and caring for them.
I interviewed an aixin mama last year and she said that yes, 20 years ago most people thought women like her were freaks, and fools. But there has been a massive shift in recent years. It will take another 20 years for it all to become codified and formalized as in the west, but the tide has turned and it is not ever going back. That’s why many of us feel positive. We’re not deluded, we just don’t see the need to feel hopeless and cynical when we know things are getting better and will continue to get better however much there are still horrific things happening right now.