Taiwan causing beef

Politics Taiwan Politics
61

America is not going to die because Taiwanese refuse to eat American hamburgers or bones-in-meat beef. Taiwan still imports a lot of American beef, just not going to be those particular items. Wheres the beef??

edit: Its ok to say NO. The problem was MA didnt have his pulse on his party or the other party and no backing to make accords on behalf of the people, sheeple they may be.

Lets not let the beef start another beef. And lets all go back to our beef noodles. Hamburgers are shit anyway and theyve gotten worse with whatever they got in em. I am in the USA and Iv given up on hamburgers. Its all bad. Unless one gets ones own quality beef and minces it up by oneself.

62

It is money, even tho it’s a small percent, it’s a small percent of a large industry. Those .5% changes in interest rates add up to big bucks in the end. But the beef is in going back on a negotiated trade agreement based politcally motivated hysteria. The damage as usual, is more symbolic than financial.

63

Well America hasn’t said OK to visa free status for Taiwanese have they? They haven’t OK-ed F16 c/d fighters and subs have they?

The USA side hasn’t done a whole hecka lot except pressure Korea and now Taiwan to buy US Beef with no restrictions. Its kinda one sided is it not?

Wheres the US commitment ? I think its a big stink over nothing.

IF Taiwanese believe beef from cattle over 30 months is unsafe and hamburgers are unsafe and so are offals and bone in beef. So be it. The legislature of Taiwan, who are duly elected have the right to mandate this. President Ma has a face full of turkey though. It should not happen with trade treaties but this proves it CAN. And due care has to be taken in future. The only mistake here was that President MA didnt have the mandate of the people when his people negotiated with our people over the beef treaty.

edit: Now broadly speaking yes there is a big trade imbalance between Taiwan and the USA. Has been one for decades and its good for Americans to plug American products to Taiwan to help redress this imbalance. China has a gargantuan trade imbalance with the USA. Japan has an extremely large one as well.

However, to over concentrate on a relatively not of huge importance issue as USA hamburgers and bone in beef, is not over-all productive. Because there is still a school of thought that some of this stuff could be a problem. Brain wasting disease takes decades to become apparent and its best to avoid “risky” beef until the matter is better settled. Many experts say there is no risk and lets hope they are right, because I am in the USA and i eat a lot of beef. Even burgers.

Maybe I will become a mad cow in 20 to 30 years. MY thing could fall off and prions could take over. Lets hope not.

64

[quote=“tommy525”]Well America hasn’t said OK to visa free status for Taiwanese have they? They haven’t OK-ed F16 c/d fighters and subs have they?

The USA side hasn’t done a whole hecka lot except pressure Korea and now Taiwan to buy US Beef with no restrictions. Its kinda one sided is it not?[/quote]

I don’t think these comparisons are really accurate. Why should the US have to give something to remove a trade barrier that is illogical? The trade barrier shouldn’t exist in the first place. And why is it wrong to pressure another country to remove restrictions on importing your goods if they are deemed safe? (tariffs and quantity limitations aside…)

As far as the Visa thing, that’s a big chip. Yeah in a perfect world it should be mutual, but in actuality it’s not Taiwan that has to worry about deterring illegal immigration from the US. I’m no expert on this issue, but I’m guessing that’s one of the main reasons.

65

The USA has a huge problem with illegals from MExico. But virtually none from Taiwan. There is no reason to deny TW citizens Visa-Free visits to the USA.

Perhaps hamburger meat and bone in beef safety is not in doubt, perhaps it is. But that aside , and respecting that America has a right to ask for removal of “unfair” , “unfounded”, “illogical” or otherwise trade barriers. The other party has a right to NOT agree.

This is democracy, otherwise it would be dictatorship.

The USA can continue to seek the removal of “artificial” trade barriers, just like Taiwan can continue to seek US Visa-Free status and also F16 C/D fighters and subs.

The only thing wrong here , far as I can see, is President Ma having no say and therefore no mandate to arrange treaties with other nations.

66

I know what’s in American hamburgers and why they suck:

The Taiwanese are absolutely correct to ban ground beef imports. They can import American beef and grind it themselves. I see no reason why the USA should object to that.

regards,
DB

67

Agree with the last poster. I buy Australian/US/NZ beef and grind it myself. Very easy and I know it’s good coz I do it myself.

68

[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]
The Taiwanese are absolutely correct to ban ground beef imports. They can import American beef and grind it themselves. I see no reason why the USA should object to that.

regards,
DB[/quote]

That is what Costco does.

Taiwan is NOT correct to ban the imports, however. There is no scientific basis for the ban and all you do is offend your most important trade and diplomatic partner. This also likely violates WTO obligations as well.

69

All that plus the fact that no-one’s being ‘forced’ to buy anything. The stuff either gets allowed to survive [or not] on the open market based on its own [now-severely-tarnished] popular reputation acquired over time.

But there’s another huge aspect to the debate; a nasty provincial pride ‘feature’ regarding the general ‘good feelings’ people get about themselves by feeling superior [to someone or other(s)] according to what they may ‘care’ to reject and, indirectly, as implicit rejection of other cultures becomes … an own cultural trait, or … when nationalism based on collective disregard for another side becomes a source for local pride … distinction.

How might a counter-campaign against Taiwanese products help make a simple truth ring more clearly in culturally aware Taiwanese ears? Does it all need or require a lesson to be learned the hard way?

[color=#400080]us/taiwan[/color] [color=#4040BF]more than a casual relationship[/color]

History shows a pattern of hard lessons learned more than it shows one of democratic rule, especially as to shifting tides … and occasional sea changes.

Damage control … superficial damage control … it’s a nine-alarm fire drill.

70

America is free to exercise its right to Taiwan itself by virtue of its victory over Japan in WW2. Then it can sell as much American beef as it wants to.

71

[quote=“mallard”]All that plus the fact that no-one’s being ‘forced’ to buy anything. The stuff either gets allowed to survive [or not] on the open market based on its own [now-severely-tarnished] popular reputation acquired over time.

But there’s another huge aspect to the debate; a nasty provincial pride ‘feature’ regarding the general ‘good feelings’ people get about themselves by feeling superior [to someone or other(s)] according to what they may ‘care’ to reject and, indirectly, as implicit rejection of other cultures becomes … an own cultural trait, or … when nationalism based on collective disregard for another side becomes a source for local pride … distinction.[/quote]Excellent points and much more elequent than I would have put it.

Further, I believe this “beef” about the beef to be entirely the fault of the Taiwanese. Why? Because the Taiwanese are the ones who create a market for the shit beef products known as offal. There is no need to ban any imports of American beef products. Just stop eating the guts, brains, tongues, and pre-ground beef of the cow and the Americans will stop sending it because there wont’ be a market for it. I don’t eat the offal and I always grind my own beef so I’m not worried. Taiwanese should exercise the same caution and restrain themselves from eating questionable products regardless of where they come from to include locally produced products! :2cents:

72

Well, support is welcome thing, for sure … nearly vital at times, too.

Here we have something to compete with Korean soap opera for the Taiwan transplants’ more eclectic, ‘wannabe’ tastes. It’s got all the drama, tyranny, players and rife audience elements. Why must it so soon be turned into … some forgetten turd on the pavement of life?

[color=#008000]“Mongo only pawn in game of life”[/color]

The drama will now have to experience some sort of an ‘accident’ … to become standard road-kill or otherwise undeclared property, as no-one wants to own the heat. Sounds awful, but that’s really all part of the ongoing skit. Blame will just be converted into political currency with real market value … as in dollars and cents.

A weakened central government in Taipei is not exactly a good thing, though, I might argue. Whose favor will they seek now when they should be focusing 98% of their work themes on public service?

It’s huge ‘puck-up’ over … lukewarm bullshit. The stuff really needs sanitary treatment pronto.

Re: [color=#BF00BF]Meat Trade News Daily[/color] 1/11/10
[color=#0080BF]USA - Press Release from USDA on Taiwan beef ban[/color]

[color=#800000]The Office of the United States Trade Representative and the U.S. Department of Agriculture today released a statement regarding the decision by Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan to bar import of some U.S. beef and beef products. The following statement is from Deputy United States Trade Representative Demetrios Marantis and Undersecretary for Farm and Foreign Agricultural Services Jim Miller:

"We are deeply disappointed with the decision by Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan to amend the Food Sanitation Act (FSA) to unjustifiably bar the import of certain U.S. beef and beef products.

"As we noted in our statement on December 29, the FSA amendment’s provisions do not have a basis in science and constitute a unilateral violation of a bilateral agreement concluded in good faith by the United States with Taiwan a little over two months ago. The protocol was negotiated on the basis of the guidelines laid out by the World Organization for Animal Health (the OIE), as well as the findings of Taiwan’s own risk assessment, which concluded that all U.S. beef and beef products are safe.[/color]

[color=#FF0040]"The decision by Taiwan authorities to place domestic politics over science raises serious concerns. This action will also undermine Taiwan’s credibility as a responsible trading partner and will make it more challenging for us to conclude future agreements to expand and strengthen bilateral trade and economic ties.[/color]

[color=#800000]“The decision to violate our bilateral agreement is particularly disappointing, as the United States has long been one of Taiwan’s most important trade and investment partners, as well as the strongest supporter of Taiwan’s active participation in the global trading system, including its membership in the World Trade Organization (WTO). In light of the continuing importance of our bilateral economic relationship, we urge Taiwan to honor its commitments and to implement the beef protocol as negotiated.”[/color]

The drama’s hardly over, but it might as well be, ‘regardless’. It can be made to go away, as they say.

[color=#0040FF]Note: Seating assignments, if not names, may be changed to protect the ‘lacking in vision’[/color]

[color=#8040BF]not the enemy[/color]

Moral of the story:
[color=#4000BF]What kind of beef would you like to order?[/color]

73

Those are the maddest cows I’ve ever seen!!

That’s the stare of a hardened heffer!!

74

[quote=“ludahai”][quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]
The Taiwanese are absolutely correct to ban ground beef imports. They can import American beef and grind it themselves. I see no reason why the USA should object to that.

regards,
DB[/quote]

That is what Costco does.

Taiwan is NOT correct to ban the imports, however. There is no scientific basis for the ban and all you do is offend your most important trade and diplomatic partner. This also likely violates WTO obligations as well.[/quote]

WTO regulations allow a country to ban importing a product that is deemed a health hazard (ie melamine-tainted milk from China). I would say that ammonia-treated pet food deliberately mislabeled as “ground beef” qualifies as a health hazard.

You should click on the original link I posted - it goes into more detail, like how this wasn’t even legal in the USA until the Bush administration tossed out the regulations prohibiting it.

I no longer have the slightest bit of confidence in the FDA. Nowadays, a label saying “US FDA inspected” is as trustworthy as “PRC Health Department inspected.”

The only reason why the USA wants to sell ground beef in Taiwan (as opposed to unground) is because it gives the American meat packer the opportunity to discard their inedible offal at a good profit by calling it “ground beef.” This stuff is only fit for pet food.

This is not even to get into the issue of hormone-fed beef cows. Taiwan would well be within it’s rights to ban American beef for that reason alone.

cheers,
DB

75

The fact that you have subsituted the basis of Taiwan’s stance against importing US beef offal with your own, calls into question the motive and logic of your argument.

76

There are two completely disconnected sides claiming victimhood over the decision and pending reversal. The local one is adamant about being ‘nearly’ abused, assuming the reversal goes ahead … or behind, depending on how you look at it.

[color=#400080]making a point … in a democratic society[/color]

The other side doesn’t have quite the same collective spirit, and they have only the repreccusion factor to ‘deploy’ or fall back on.

Re: [color=#004040]bignews.biz[/color] 1/11/10
Chairman Lincoln’s Statement on Taiwan’s Decision to Restrict U.S. Beef Imports
bignews.biz/?id=833532&keys= … BeefTaiwan

[color=#0000BF]Washington - U.S. Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-Ark.), Chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry, issued the following statement on Taiwan’s decision to ban imports of certain U.S. beef products. Taiwan agreed to allow full access to U.S. beef last October, but reversed that decision today with a vote by the Legislative Yuan to amend the Food Sanitation Act to ban U.S. ground beef and offal.

“I am severely disappointed by Taiwan’s decision to impose restrictions on imports of certain U.S. beef products, effectively reversing the agreement on this matter reached between the governments of the United States and Taiwan last October. Taiwan’s own risk assessment, as well as studies conducted by the World Animal Health Organization (OIE) and others, has proven that U.S. beef is safe. With this action, Taiwan has chosen to disregard sound science, therefore forcing us to question our ability to depend on them as a reliable trading partner. I have unwavering faith that the beef products produced in Arkansas and throughout the United States adhere to the highest health and safety standards in the world. This decision represents a serious setback in the U.S.-Taiwan trade relationship.”[/color]

Blanche is only a mid-level bureaucrat from the state of Arkansas. No big deal.

77

[quote=“garfaldo”][quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]
WTO regulations allow a country to ban importing a product that is deemed a health hazard (ie melamine-tainted milk from China). I would say that ammonia-treated pet food deliberately mislabeled as “ground beef” qualifies as a health hazard.
[/quote]

The fact that you have subsituted the basis of Taiwan’s stance against importing US beef offal with your own, calls into question the motive and logic of your argument.[/quote]

And what is YOUR Motive kind sir?

78

There should be a law against using Hitler’s image in protests. Not because it’s offensive to Jews, but because it’s so incredibly lame and overdone.

79

From another publication with a bit wider circulation, beef imports and ‘the beef’ over them play in the shadows of what else is going on now, taking a back seat to now-meatier substance for debate … regarding the overall condition.

Suddenly, the questions creep into the arena of press pundit query. Does the writer understand all the variables, or does he also mean to add pressure and somehow sway the ‘equation’?

Re: [color=#800000]Time[/color] 1/13/10
China Missile Test Tells U.S. to Back Off over Taiwan
Mark Thompson
news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100113/w … 9195323300

[color=#400080]Washington - China invented fireworks some 1,000 years ago in hopes of scaring away evil spirits. On Monday, it successfully tested a missile-defense system aimed at scaring away the U.S. from defending the island nation of Taiwan. By shooting down one missile with another, China demonstrated its growing military prowess. But it also telegraphed its anger over last week’s sale of U.S. Patriot interceptor missiles to Taiwan. Taipei would use the Patriots to blunt any attack by Beijing’s 1,100 missiles poised just across the Taiwan Strait. China has threatened to use force should Taiwan, which has had its own political system for the past six decades, opt for independence.

There’s no chance China’s gambit will deter the U.S. from backing Taiwan’s ability to defend itself. But the test does signal a ratcheting up of tensions between Beijing and Washington, and highlights the continuing paradox of a strategic rivalry between two of the globe’s biggest trading partners. The U.S. imports about $1 billion a day in Chinese goods to fill the shelves of Walmarts from coast to coast, making it the second-largest U.S. trading partner after Canada. That’s a far different relationship than the U.S. had with the Soviet Union, its last strategic challenger. China’s test also highlights what some in the military call a “self-licking ice cream cone” - the perpetual pursuit of primacy that keeps missile plants around the world churning out antimissile interceptors and interceptor-evading missiles.[/color]

Imports play a huge role in the balance.

80

[quote=“mallard”]
Chairman Lincoln’s Statement on Taiwan’s Decision to Restrict U.S. Beef Imports
bignews.biz/?id=833532&keys= … BeefTaiwan

[color=#0000BF]Washington - U.S. Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-Ark.), Chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry, issued the following statement on Taiwan’s decision to ban imports of certain U.S. beef products. Taiwan agreed to allow full access to U.S. beef last October, but reversed that decision today with a vote by the Legislative Yuan to amend the Food Sanitation Act to ban U.S. ground beef and offal.

“I am severely disappointed by Taiwan’s decision to impose restrictions on imports of certain U.S. beef products, effectively reversing the agreement on this matter reached between the governments of the United States and Taiwan last October. Taiwan’s own risk assessment, as well as studies conducted by the World Animal Health Organization (OIE) and others, has proven that U.S. beef is safe. With this action, Taiwan has chosen to disregard sound science, therefore forcing us to question our ability to depend on them as a reliable trading partner. I have unwavering faith that the beef products produced in Arkansas and throughout the United States adhere to the highest health and safety standards in the world. This decision represents a serious setback in the U.S.-Taiwan trade relationship.”[/color]
.[/quote]

…the beef products produced in Arkansas and throughout the United States adhere to the highest health and safety standards in the world

I guess Senator Blanche Lincoln still believes in the tooth fairy.

foodborneillness.com/salmone … poisoning/

Also, I find it extremely laughable that anyone still believes that the USA will come to Taiwan’s defense. OK, if Guatemala decides to invade Taiwan, maybe the USA will get involved, but if it’s China, watch the USA run away like a scared dog with its tail between its legs.

The USA is an exhausted empire that’s economically bankrupt and teetering. US officials go to China with hat in hand, begging for loans. Things have changed since the Korean War.

regards,
DB