I doubt it would have been that big an issue if it hadn’t coincided with elections and by-elections.
Hold on. Doesn’t Ma WANT heavier reliance on the motherland? Seems he would find it in his party’s best interests to distance from the states in his bid to bring Taiwan closer to China. The whole thing is being very carefully orchestrated. His administration’s so-called “inept bungling” is in fact very carefully crafted to further the interests of those in the party who are pulling Ma’s strings and who are the REAL KMT policymakers.
of course this is also a great way to not buy more arms from America as well, something the KMT has been planning for many many years. Why waste money defending yourself when capitulation is so much cheaper?
[quote=“tommy525”]Still the USA shouldnt force stuff on people that dont want it. IF we dont want hamburgers and Tbone steaks. Thats our choice !
(hold the hamburger , but I want my Tbone )[/quote]
Taiwanese dont want dodgy beef from the US and rhe legislators know this and are following opinion, same thing happened in Korea, its not so complicated and its a good thing they cant ram this stuff down from on top.
[quote=“tommy525”]Still the USA shouldnt force stuff on people that dont want it. IF we dont want hamburgers and Tbone steaks. Thats our choice !
(hold the hamburger , but I want my Tbone )[/quote]
Correction.
People shouldn’t block other people exercising their choice. If you don’t want American beefburgers, you don’t have to buy them. But that doesn’t mean someone else shouldn’t be able to buy them at all.
If you don’t want to buy American beef, DON’T BUY IT! You don’t need a trade ban to do that.
Re: [color=#800040]Taiwan News[/color] 1/6/10
[color=#4000BF]US expresses disappointment over Taiwan’s beef ban[/color]
Zep Hu & Y.F. Low
etaiwannews.com/etn/news_con … g=eng_news
[color=#BF00BF]Washington - The U.S. government expressed disappointment Tuesday at a decision by Taiwan’s legislature to bar the import of specific U.S. beef products in contravention of a bilateral trade protocol signed in October.
"We’re very disappointed with the Taiwan legislature’s decision to ban certain cuts of U.S. beef in violation of our bilateral agreement signed just over two months ago, " said Philip Crowley, assistant secretary of the Bureau of Public Affairs at the U.S. State Department.
Crowley said, however, that Washington remains committed to further developing its broad-ranging and positive relationship with the people of Taiwan and he ruled out the possibility that the incident could affect arms sales to Taiwan.
"U.S. government policy and decisions in the security arena are based on the Taiwan Relations Act (TRA) . And as stipulated in the TRA, the United States will continue to make available to Taiwan defense articles and services needed for Taiwan’s self defense, " Crowley said. Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan on Tuesday passed an amendment to the Act Governing Food Sanitation that targets beef products from countries with documented cases of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), or mad cow disease, over the past decade.
It will effectively bar U.S. ground beef, beef offal and other beef parts such as the skull, eyes and intestines from access to Taiwan’s market.
The amendment came just two months after Taiwan and the United States signed a protocol to allow the entry of bone-in beef and other beef products, including ground beef and offal, which had previously been forbidden over BSE concerns.
Also Tuesday, Deputy United States Trade Representative Demetrios Marantis and Undersecretary for Farm and Foreign Agricultural Services Jim Miller issued a joint statement to express disappointment and serious concern over Taiwan’s decision to “place domestic politics over science.” Maranties and Miller reiterated that the amendment’s provisions “do not have a basis in science” and “constitute a unilateral violation” of the latest U.S.-Taiwan protocol.
They stressed that the protocol was negotiated on the basis of the guidelines laid out by the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE), as well as the findings of Taiwan’s own risk assessment, which concluded that all U.S. beef and beef products are safe.
“This action will also undermine Taiwan’s credibility as a responsible trading partner and will make it more challenging for us to conclude future agreements to expand and strengthen bilateral trade and economic ties,” Maranties and Miller said.
“In light of the continuing importance of our bilateral economic relationship, we urge Taiwan to honor its commitments and to implement the beef protocol as negotiated,” they added.
In the wake of the amendment, Taiwan-U.S. talks under the framework of the bilateral trade and investment framework agreement (TIFA), which were scheduled for February in Taipei, have been postponed.[/color]
Boo hoo, now go back and finish your … Peikang Duck.
[quote=“tommy525”]Still the USA shouldnt force stuff on people that dont want it. IF we dont want hamburgers and Tbone steaks. Thats our choice !
(hold the hamburger , but I want my Tbone )[/quote]
But Taiwan’s government signed a protocol with the US government. Taiwan is about to go into unilateral abrogation of that agreement. Furthermore, as there is no scientific basis for the exclusion of the product, it may also run afoul of Taiwan’s WTO obligations.
[quote=“headhonchoII”][quote=“tommy525”]Still the USA shouldnt force stuff on people that dont want it. IF we dont want hamburgers and Tbone steaks. Thats our choice !
(hold the hamburger , but I want my Tbone )[/quote]
Taiwanese dont want dodgy beef from the US and rhe legislators know this and are following opinion, same thing happened in Korea, its not so complicated and its a good thing they cant ram this stuff down from on top.[/quote]
What is dodgy about US beef? Don’t tell me you are also falling for the hysteria.
[quote=“ludahai”][quote=“tommy525”]Still the USA shouldnt force stuff on people that dont want it. IF we dont want hamburgers and Tbone steaks. Thats our choice !
(hold the hamburger , but I want my Tbone )[/quote]
But Taiwan’s government signed a protocol with the US government. Taiwan is about to go into unilateral abrogation of that agreement. Furthermore, as there is no scientific basis for the exclusion of the product, it may also run afoul of Taiwan’s WTO obligations.[/quote]
But none of that matters, especially to local politicians. This is a golden opportunity to make Ma look bad, on the global stage, no less. How could anyone ask the DPP as well as disaffected KMT lawmakers not to take advantage of it? If they don’t, come election time, the voters will be reminded of their lack of action on the subject.
[quote=“Poagao”]
But none of that matters, especially to local politicians. This is a golden opportunity to make Ma look bad, on the global stage, no less. How could anyone ask the DPP as well as disaffected KMT lawmakers not to take advantage of it? If they don’t, come election time, the voters will be reminded of their lack of action on the subject.[/quote]
So EVERY KMT lawmaker is disaffected? Wasn’t it a unanimous vote? So much for Ma becoming chairman of the party leading to a coherent KMT party. A bunch of bumbling incompetants.
Taiwan politics in a nutshell.
[quote=“ludahai”][quote=“tommy525”]Still the USA shouldnt force stuff on people that dont want it. IF we dont want hamburgers and Tbone steaks. Thats our choice !
(hold the hamburger , but I want my Tbone )[/quote]
But Taiwan’s government signed a protocol with the US government. Taiwan is about to go into unilateral abrogation of that agreement. Furthermore, as there is no scientific basis for the exclusion of the product, it may also run afoul of Taiwan’s WTO obligations.[/quote]
The legislature is showing President Horse that he alone does not the govt make.
He shouldve got his house in order before dealing with important issues with other states.
Ma failed to do this.
Taiwan is not too afraid of running afoul of WTO et al because most govts dont recognize it anyway.
[quote=“tommy525”]
The legislature is showing President Horse that he alone does not the govt make.
He shouldve got his house in order before dealing with important issues with other states.
Ma failed to do this.
Taiwan is not too afraid of running afoul of WTO et al because most govts dont recognize it anyway.[/quote]
Hey, I am not a fan at all of President Horsey. I have been calling him Horsey since long before be became president.
However, even without the protocol, there was no basis for the continued exclusion of US beef – regardless what the legislators felt about it.
As for the ‘it’, do you mean the WTO or Taiwan? It doesn’t matter because Taiwan is a member of the WTO and is thus obligated to follow its rules.
Taiwanese need to be roped in as far as the WTO is concerned. Im sure the WTO has its WTF moments with Taiwan now and again. But thats what you get with a rogue puppy nation that goes its own way. Who else has punch ups in its legislature, a govt of two parties, one of which is revolutionary and the other reactionary (of the knee jerk type at times), is threatened by the largest and most dangerous rogue nation of them all (Big Bad China who rules by the rule of Force).
The island and its populace is split between de jeure independence and de facto independence.
I donno, its certainly a very unpredictable picture.
But the Taiwanese do like to do things their own way. IT doesnt matter if it actually makes sense most of the time, some of the time or At NO TIme.
Thats not the politic at hand at all. Its all about the DPP says, the KMT says, and what “scientists” each conjures up says. Its about what the people are lead to believe or in fact believe (even if that belief is not in fact based on fact).
In other words, business as usual on the rock. The “other” reality, the out of the box experience that is Taiwan.
edit: Most govts do not recognize Taiwan as a nation. And therefore Taiwan is sometimes less sensitive to the concerns of many world bodies. It chooses what dictums it wishes to follow and how exactly to follow those dictums.
Read Poagao’s post. Of course there’s a basis. The people who passed the amendment are the same people who’ll be asking the public to vote for them come the next elections. What is more important? Some stupid bignose organization far far away or 200 Ah Huangs refusing to vote for you?
See?
[color=#004000]ludahai[/color]:
“[color=#400080]So much for Ma becoming chairman of the party leading to a coherent KMT party. A bunch of bumbling incompetants.[/color]”
Excellent point you’re making here!
The bold idea that he’d somehow wax more heroic - if not ‘so much’ for becoming a stronger authority figure - by taking up the post as party chairman [post-victory] was a tad ludicrous from inception.
So, as to the president’s choice of advisors …
I would take it … this King guy getting called back from Washington [to save the day] is supposed to be less bumbling and more competent, but Taiwan could have done better leaving him in DC if that’s really the plain truth.
Personally I’d call Ma’s ‘assumption’ that becoming party chief would help the KMT was short-sighted … or else it’s just … ‘moon-lighting’ [to be more accurate]. Isn’t being president pretty much a full-time job already?
Read Poagao’s post. Of course there’s a basis. The people who passed the amendment are the same people who’ll be asking the public to vote for them come the next elections. What is more important? Some stupid bignose organization far far away or 200 Ah Huangs refusing to vote for you?
See?[/quote]
Let me rephrase. There is no scientific or legal basis for the continued exclusion of US beef.
But there the public hysteria and emotional aspects to consider here.
A more succinct definition of “politics” I have never seen. :bravo:
[color=#800000]Tommy525[/color]:
[color=#0000BF]“But there [are] the public hysteria and emotional aspects to consider here.”[/color]
Absolutuely! This one is an amazing - though false - unifier … and appears when intra-party infighting has become nearly as vicious as the blue/green divide. People want a national pride experience and this has been turned into one … very foolishly on the parts of characters like Mayor Hau.
It’s about the sheeple getting sheparded by so many of those who steer Taiwan using old-school intimidation … and calling them for chops, too. It’ about getting together, for a change, to thumb noses at Uncle Sambo. This is a key stretch - or cross-over’ - on the road to realizing a unified One China, as well, and nothing short will do[!]. No asides about this being nothing against America have reached my own ear in all these weeks.
Has anyone lately been personally re-assured about this not being an anti-American thing? Just curious.
It seems like the leading anti-US-beefers don’t want to see or even think about what this all looks like (from outside their island box) anymore than they’d care to know just how ugly it really is.
Lee Deng Hui, where are you now?
This is exactly the type of ‘beef’ that actually does become hazardous during consumption, because it can truly effect public perceptions about the difference between having old, trusted friends and being surrounded by people who just don’t give a turd what you think.
So, as to the case going ahead as Taiwan’s first allowed public referendum at the polls, who would argue that this doesn’t involve history in the making, at this point, or that it isn’t about the real future viv-a-vis what the rest of the world does think, which suggests general preference for a unified Taiwan and China, by and large, regardless what’s best for Taiwan.
Re: [color=#BF0040]Taipei Times[/color] 1/8/10
Proposed beef referendum clears committee review
Loa Iok-sin
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 2003462966
“[color=#000080]A civic movement to hold a referendum on US beef imports cleared another hurdle yesterday, passing a review by the Cabinet’s Referendum Screening Committee by a vote of 16-0.[/color]”
Referendums are a fine thing. Too bad they never allow one. Wish they’d have taken one on public interest in redrawing the map with Taiwan as a part of China. It’s not like there would be much debate on the outcome, but it was deemed taboo. Now there’s another application of allowing all the people to express their opinion as one huge group all at once, to show their true spirit, as it were.
If you can’t have embassies where you want them, well then, at least you can still tell the one watching your back for these past 60 years … to take a hike and go find other friends … out there. Let’s keep it strictly business.
These two proposed referendum items are fundamentally similar in nature. The anti-China one was barred while the ant-American one will be toyed with for a while like a doll, and in either case, someone has to put out the fuse now or … see what happens.
