Taiwan Cop Arrests Betel Nut Vendor - too rough?

Discussion Open Forum
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Just out of interest would she be allowed to sit in her bikini or is that inappropriate ? I mean she wasn’t dressed that provocatively was she? Look at Shi Men Ding they dress more openly than that?

Anyone got any better pics of the girl or close ups? In order to better assess this case and not for any voyeur type of reason. :thumbsup:
We need to assess if she was wearing undergarments. If she was not then I understand the officer’s point. After all the arrest was meant to have taken place due to the girl being provocative right?

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Yes she was wearing undergarments but they could be seen thru her see thru. She had on a bra and undies. The tv discussion channels have already mentioned that she was not dressed very provocatively that there are normal girls walking around in kenting dressed far more sexily and that she was relatively modestly dressed by beetlenut girl standards. And that the policeman really had no case and shouldnt have been singling her out for harassment.

He has less and less of a leg to stand on now > If the girl had NOT mouthed off on him, I am pretty sure he would be fired. Now its a proportioning the blame thing. I think public opinion is hanging him out to dry though and his career is certainly in doubt at this time. Once he is not a policeman anymore I can even see some body roughing him up at some stage in the near future.

Taiwanese can be rather vengeful.

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Let’s not forget that this girl, cute as she may be, assaulted an officer of the law. Where I come from, she’d be thrown in jail by now.

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I haven’t finished making my own mind up regarding this incident, so I emailed the link to a close buddy of mine who is a police officer in the US in order to get his opinion on this issue. He has over 25 years of law enforcement under his belt and he is an ultra professional in how he conducts himself in both his personal and professional life. I’ve known this man for nearly 50 years and I explicity trust him with my life!

[quote=“Tank Evans, US Police Officer”]Cody! I hope you are doing well over on the Island these days! Well, I watched the video in that link you sent. Needless to say, I couldn’t understand a WORD that they were saying! Obviously, there were a lot of things going on in this contact/arrest. First of all, use of force is a pain in the ass. You’re (a police officer), always going to be criticized/analyzed, etc, etc, whenever you go “hands on” with someone. After doing this job for a fair number of years now, you always learn to start at the bottom of the force response ladder. Yes, there are times where you have to jump back and forth between verbal/physical responses. The crime that this female commited was being “scantily dressed” I’m assuming. She was a fireball from what I saw. Since I couldn’t understand what was being said, and just judging by body language of the officer, there were some very heated exchanges between the two. She threw her cell phone down on the table, so, by seeing that, if I were going to take enforcement action (physical arrest), I would be wanting another officer present to take her into custody, just by that action alone.

The video didn’t show why the female was “thrown” out into the middle of the shop. I did see that the officer was “struck” by the female. That’s not a good thing, in any country. Again, I don’t know what type of “verbal judo” or communication skills that Taiwan police officers undergo. In this day and age, we (police officers), always try to do the “right thing”, being watched or not. Use of force is a pain in the ass, and you try to do the right thing all the time. People don’t always want to be arrested, and some, even small people, can fight like caged animals when they are going to be arrested. Are there problems with this video/totality of circumstances? Absolutely, on both sides.

In a nutshell, the officer should have waited for assistance from another officer before arresting her, then he may, or may not have had the type of problem that he encountered. Was she in the wrong for striking the officer? Yes. When she was finally handcuffed, the other officers just standing around, should have helped the arresting officer get the female to her feet, to help put her in the patrol car, or whatever they use over there, instead of dragging her on the ground. That is a no-no.

I’ve been fortunate in my career (so far), as I have had to use “force” to subdue suspects, but, I always make sure that it is justified, AND meets the level of resistance. I’ve got a pretty good track record of using my mouth to defuse any problems, and “talk” a person into handcuffs. It makes life a lot easier, and then I don’t end up on “You Tube!”

Well my brother, I hope I shed a little light on the subject for you. I hope that you are doing well over there! Same old, same old here. Just got done with night shift for another three months.

Drop me a line when you get a chance you old Marine!

Semper Fi,

Tank[/quote]

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However, she struck at the officer (not very heavily by the way) only AFTER he pushed her quite hard out of the building as the electric shutters were coming down and she landed obviously quite painfully on her knees on the tiles outside. You can see in later clips the black and blue that caused. It was reported that he said he was afraid of being shut inside with her so he quickly wanted to get her out of the building to the outside. I would think the girl is more afraid of being shut inside with him. She started verbal abuse only after he prevented her from entering the backroom several times. She said that she was going to get something to wear as that was the complaint of the officer but he told her to stay where she was. And he blocked her from going into the other room. Reasonable? Perhaps, perhaps not. It seemed he lost control after she started with the foul language (not unreasonable under the circumstances). But it seemed he did his best to escalate the situation.

My conclusions:

The officer singled her out unfairly for harassment and had no reason to hang around in her work place for such a long time, thus escalating the situation. She was not under-dressed compared to other binlang girls or even normal girls out and about in Taiwan ( had a GF that went out with me in Taipei with a see-thru blouse and NO bra, this girl had on a bra) .

She wanted to go into the back room and told him she was getting something to wear and he blocked her several times. Thus escalating the conflict and bringing upon her starting to film with her fonecam and she kept asking him what did he want. He was escalating the conflict instead of going outside himself to defuse the situ and calling for backup. Shes not a criminal, theres no danger here. I wonder where her minder was at this time. Or maybe she owned the booth herself or her family did? Usually theres a minder (owner is usually a gangster type guy) that would step in and reason with the officer. They watch out for their girls usually.

She then said she was closing and started the electric motor to shut the steel blinders down . At this time he very forcefully pushed her outside of the stall and she injured herself on the tiles outside and her fone went flying. She got incessed (cant blame her) and struck at him (but honestly how much damage can she do with this single half hearted blow, not much more then she wouldve given her boyfriend if he had pushed her like that). He then threw her onto the ground , kneed her in the stomach and pushed her face on the ground. Totally unnecessary and an abuse of his role and very bad handling of a what wouldve been simple problem.

All he had to do from the beginning was to walk around and make sure the ladies didnt go too far. He couldve just mentioned nicely that she should put a bit more on, and allowed her to do so. But apparently he has been harassing her quite often lately and thats why things go personal. He may have been impressed by her appearance in a mens magazine (very scantily posed) and wanted something from her and because she was not going out with him he decided to use force to punish her. Looks very much like a personal issue here.

He was very rough with her. I think his superiors will study the situ very carefully. With the Minister of the Interior involved now, I think he will be fired. Even the Chief of Police will have trouble explaining his retention now. Unless he makes a very public apology and is sent out far far away to a challenging and nonglamourous appointment where there are no beetlenut girls. Then maybe he will still have a job.

If I was his boss, Id like to give him a second chance by reassigning him but all this negative publicity may force me to fire him.

Viewing the tapes over and over I would now lean towards firing him. HE totally escalated the situation from the get go.

Meantime, Id like a public prosecutor to bring the young lady to court for resisting arrest and for striking an officer (we shouldnt let these things go unpunished) but If I was a judge , Id let her go with a week in the slammer and a six month suspended sentence.

p.s. she really needs to acquire a bit of class. Good looking young girls should not be so foul mouthed. But nowadays, just hear any average American 19 year old talk??? NOt very ladylike either.

“shit” used to be a bad word, now “fuck” even has little verbal impact in most cases

She totally upheld the image of binlang girls being low class , even if pretty here. Which is not a good thing, as I am sure there are many who are even college educated who see this as a legitimate work experience until something better comes around.

Take a look at this video report by Tobie Openshaw and the reporter from National Geographic . The girl in white interviewed looks and walks very classy and is a good model of what beetlenut girls could be. Nicely dressed without being naughty.Shes not a whore and is marriage material for a lucky guy.

youtube.com/watch?v=tIzzSZo3z6o

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What assistance is it to hear from an officer who does not live here and does not know all the facts? (Above post) Bottom line is the statute, as has been stated ealier from Mother, was that this law is ambiguaous at best and allows each officer to discriminate at will. It would not stand up to an even casual scrutiny by any democratic court. He had harrassed this girl before. He had it in for her and was looking for reasons to arrest her and cause her whatever grief he could. If you don’t know this area, take a drive by. There are MANY stands in a 3 block strip and this girl was more modestly dressed than most. She just had had enough.
Why was the officer there in the first place and who assaulted whom first? She tried to evade him and he held out his arm to stop her from her democratic freedom of movement. She was retrained and thus under arrest. True, in some countries an officer can temporarily restrain for invetigatory purposes but if that’s the case, what was he investigating. I can only guess but I believe the investigation should have been completed upon a casual glance from outside the store. Then, when confronted, she tried to get away from him and even tried to close the shop. Look at the vid! He restrained her first and thus she was effectivelly under arrest. All she did was try to prevent an assault upon herself. He assaulted (unwanted touching) her first. From there all she did was protect herself. Forget the vulgarities. They occurred after her illegal arrest and arn’t officers trained to have a thick skin to profanity? It occurred after she was assaulted and illegally detained. It went downhill from there.
Bottom line is, why was he there in the first place? There was NO! indecent exposure and regardless if she was old and less than attractive, she had the right to conduct her licensed business and a duty to defend herself and her livlihood. She did so and the officer should have learned long ago that it is often much better to take 2 steps back than one step forward. He went forward without good cause and should suffer the consequences.
I read the earlier posts about "saving face, taking roses, etc. Big deal! Roses won’t protect democracy. The officer had no right to continually select her, or anyone, for harrassment and should suffer the consequences for his violations with the loss of his job. A democracy does not need this kind of overly-aggressive police behavior, nor do they need the ambiguous law of “undermining social values”. By the way, who undermined the social values in this instance. I suggest it was the officer. Why else is it an international topic?

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Id like to use this officer in really rough situations with rough people, like fishermen smuggling in the middle of the night in obscure Taiwan ports. She had indicated that she was sorry this situation got to be where it went, and indicated that she wondered if the officer was sorry. Thats why I said that was a window for him. He should come over and personally deeply apologize to her if he wants a chance at public redemption. It may all be too late for him now. He probably doesnt have a job to return to now with the public carefully studying the whole situation and them discussing it in the Legislative Assembly. Its all gone too far for him.

If it was me, I would apologize to her. If anything it will prevent some gangster type running into me with his fist or machete at some later stage. There is a reason beetlenut girls are not often messed with and soon as this guy becomes joe citizen I think there could be some dark clouds in his near future. His name is plastered all over the news. Everyone knows him now. Will be hard to escape the long arm of the Taiwanese mafioso, if they seek retribution. Especially when he is no longer an officer of the law but just joe average man on the street.

Yes this policeman is not the kind we want minding beetlenut girls. But Id like his go get em attitude if he would apply that in chasing hard core gangster !!

Question here is IF> He may be too dang chickenshit to do just that and only is a “man” when it comes to beating on beetlenut girls.

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as a citizen you are allowed to use violence against an officer of the law if that officer is committing a criminal offense. If I see that officer torturing a cat I am within my rights to arrest that officer. If an officer of the law starts beating on me for no reason I have right to self defense. I agree that perhaps she should have some punishment but then again he over reacted and was harassing her. Police harassment and brutality on his part. Assault on her part… Yep send them both to jail why not?

Of course as soon as he loses his job then boy friends and brothers of the girl will likely give the buy a beat down.

An officer of the law is not beyond the law in fact they are often (unfairly or not) more accountable to the law than the average citizen.

My family in Taiwan has four members who are police officers and two of high rank. One from neighbouring Shin Dien precinct. They all think this cop was well too heavy handed on the girl. Personally compared to most cops in the west I do not feel cops here are usually heavy handed. My brother in law frequently gets abuse in Taiwan as a uniformed officer such as being spat at but most of the time does not retaliate with a violent arrest just a verbal warning. Cops here are often well too laid back when dealing with crime but do not have a reputation for brutality unlike say Thai cops.

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I haven’t read this entire thread, but I have to agree that she brought that on herself. Perhaps it was excessive force, but in the States she’d have had at least two cops with their knees in her back long before she got the chance to slap anyone.

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Right. The cop never charged here with anything. He was just harrasing her over some minor clothing issue. She wasnt under arrest in the shop and the cop was trying to prevent her using her phone to video his actions.

He threw her out of the shop for no reason. Just a brute they should be removed as a police officer.

Looks like he is facing being disciplined.

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How did she bring the harassment on herself? She was singled out for being too scantly dressed when she was less so than other girls on the same road that he was previously chatting with. The officer did not try to put her under arrest until after he pushed her out head first and also after she said she wanted to close the shop. She was lucky she did not land face down and get brain damage or even die. How did she bring that on herself?
Now my facts maybe be wrong but that is what I have so far.

Secondly my brother in law who is a cop in Taiwan informed me that they also should of brought the car or van which they were going to transport her in closer to the incident negating the need to drag her down a tarmac road. The girl was nineteen, of small build and being harassed. How about if he had started raping her would she have right to resist then? Resisting rape ok but GBH or ABH not? The cop assaulted her and after the assault went to arrest her. What may or may not happen in America is also irrelevant as Taiwan law is based on German law.

I maybe wrong on some of the above points but that is how I see it so far.

He was originally not making an arrest it was an argument followed by a fight (assault). he then turned it into an arrest.

yes the girl could of de-escalated the situation but that is the job of a trained law enforcement officer not a 19 year old betel nut seller. De escalate do not assault from the rear with a vicious attack on a tiny woman…

by the way props to the girl for being spunky and standing up to that bully.

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Ya I hope he gets transferred to guarding prisoners at the local singsing from now on till the end

of his days.

p.s. public opinion is not going to be kind to him , as most Taiwanese (and foreigners) are pretty partial to our uniquely Taiwan phenomenon, the beetlenut girl !! PRide of Taiwan !

We dont like our cute binlang mei mei roughed up by anyone.

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Bingo.

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I don’t quite get it. I’ve never seen the crap beaten out of any woman at a swimming pool, or a magazine with a nude girl on it, or a billboard with a semi naked girl on it, or even the proprietors of a spa in my area which shows a naked bosom above it, or this woman who was clearly letting hers hang out and into her baby’s mouth, or the lingerie store which has bloody pictures everywhere of nothing but women in underwear, or anyone on a beach, or on a catwalk. Miss Taiwan! I bet she has never had her arse dragged around the floor kicking and screaming.
How about those girls on the shopping channel who walk around with bits hanging out to flout some cheap tat that’s been made in China? I have never seen one of them receive so much as even a minimal amount of chaffing for showing themselves off on national TV.
So buying and selling and spitting binlang is fine, as long as it isn’t dealt by decent looking women?

Must go along the same lines of having to wear a swimming cap, even if you’ve shaven all your hair off. :loco:

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Thanks for posting his response, that was interesting.

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How did she bring the harassment on herself? She was singled out for being too scantly dressed when she was less so than other girls on the same road that he was previously chatting with. The officer did not try to put her under arrest until after he pushed her out head first and also after she said she wanted to close the shop. She was lucky she did not land face down and get brain damage or even die. How did she bring that on herself?
Now my facts maybe be wrong but that is what I have so far.

Secondly my brother in law who is a cop in Taiwan informed me that they also should of brought the car or van which they were going to transport her in closer to the incident negating the need to drag her down a tarmac road. The girl was nineteen, of small build and being harassed. How about if he had started raping her would she have right to resist then? Resisting rape ok but GBH or ABH not? The cop assaulted her and after the assault went to arrest her. What may or may not happen in America is also irrelevant as Taiwan law is based on German law.

I maybe wrong on some of the above points but that is how I see it so far.

He was originally not making an arrest it was an argument followed by a fight (assault). he then turned it into an arrest.

yes the girl could of de-escalated the situation but that is the job of a trained law enforcement officer not a 19 year old betel nut seller. De escalate do not assault from the rear with a vicious attack on a tiny woman…

by the way props to the girl for being spunky and standing up to that bully.[/quote]

Ah, well, clearly, I shouldn’t have skipped seven pages before posting. The video makes her look like only a an agressive and agitated young woman. I should have read for context. I guess, in the States, the cops would likely get sued!

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Well I think she is going to sue.

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Of course she is. Shes Taiwanese isn’t she?
What else can she do?

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Of course she is. Shes Taiwanese isn’t she?
What else can she do?[/quote]Ah, the sordid topic of coin again. :unamused:

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Yes shes sueing him, thats why its in the news.

I think his ass is grass. He wont have a job to return to. Too much flak from this incident.