Taiwan drops request for submarines

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6181AU20100209

[quote]Sat, Jan 30 2010TAIPEI (Reuters) - Taiwan has effectively dropped a request for U.S. submarines to help shore up the balance of power with political rival China, a military source said on Tuesday, dissolving what could be a new rift in tense Sino-U.S. ties.

[/quote]

This is splendid news for all sides here. Nice to see that Ma isn’t engaged in arms race with China, unlike the previous Chen administration.

They don’t need subs… by the time they will be ready, Taiwan will be annexed…

As an island state, Taiwan does need a submarine capability. Yet that is long down the list. First & foremost, it needs jets. After that, Patriots and other anti-missile systems. And then, new & improved jamming devices.

ABC, do you actually pay attention to anything that is said in public in Taiwan?

google.com/hostednews/afp/ar … VVykRE_cVg

Taiwan insists submarines, jets still on arms agenda
(AFP) – 23 hours ago

TAIPEI — Taiwan on Tuesday dismissed a report saying the island has dropped a request for US submarines, saying the vessels and fighter jets remained on the island’s arms procurement agenda.

“It is absolutely untrue,” Taiwan’s defence ministry spokesman Yu Sy-tue told AFP.

“We hope the United States will provide submarines and F-16 C/Ds Taiwan has requested in accordance with the Taiwan Relations Act,” the spokesman said.

Yu was reacting to a report which cited an unnamed military source as saying that the island was no longer asking for the submarines, because of rapidly improving ties between Taipei and Beijing.

Jason Yuan, Taiwan’s de facto ambassador to Washington, said late January the United States was still considering whether to sell the submarines and F-16 fighter jets to the island despite the latest Beijing-Washington row over a 6.4-billion-dollar arms package.

[quote=“ABC”]
This is splendid news for all sides here. Nice to see that Ma isn’t engaged in arms race with China, unlike the previous Chen administration.[/quote]

Only good for all sides who believe unilateral surrender to the Chinese is a good idea. China’s arms race will continue unabated regardless of whether or not Taiwan stops procuring armaments for its legitimate defense needs.

They can buy second hand subs … my uncle has a dealership around the corner from Abu dabi Drive … somewhere … many nations scrap subs, just recycle them … it’s a start :popcorn:

all these “defence” moves are a super waste of money.

No matter how much arms Taiwan buys, which are more than likely US throwaways, it would never keep pace with China… What Taiwan would spend in a year is most likely what China would spend in an hour in weapons… best to put that money to better use instead of inflaming tensions.

[quote=“dan2006”]all these “defence” moves are a super waste of money.

No matter how much arms Taiwan buys, which are more than likely US throwaways, it would never keep pace with China… What Taiwan would spend in a year is most likely what China would spend in an hour in weapons… best to put that money to better use instead of inflaming tensions.[/quote]
There is actually some truth in that.

The subs are still on, Reuters misreported.

Which is to say, the only countries willing to sell subs to Taiwan, don’t actually have any. :wink:

[quote=“dan2006”]all these “defence” moves are a super waste of money.

No matter how much arms Taiwan buys, which are more than likely US throwaways, it would never keep pace with China… What Taiwan would spend in a year is most likely what China would spend in an hour in weapons… best to put that money to better use instead of inflaming tensions.[/quote]

When war breaks out, give guns to every living thing walking on two legs in Taiwan, would still not stand a chance to the entire assembly line of factory workers down in Guandong.

So should Taiwan import lard or steel?

“Preparedness makes us powerful, butter merely makes us fat” -Göring

[quote=“dan2006”]all these “defence” moves are a super waste of money.

No matter how much arms Taiwan buys, which are more than likely US throwaways, it would never keep pace with China… What Taiwan would spend in a year is most likely what China would spend in an hour in weapons… best to put that money to better use instead of inflaming tensions.[/quote]

Which is why Taiwan needs to stop buying anymore arms. There’s no point trying to match military power with China or prepare for an invasion that simply isn’t going to happen. Once Taiwan stop viewing China as an adversary, maybe it’ll realize Taiwan already has a military comparable to some much bigger European countries in both size and capability. All the big ticket items Taiwan wants right now are just waste of money.

Yeah, forget about the ever-benevolent PRC trying to invade. But if those Dutch try to re-invade, Taiwan’ll be ready for 'em this time. :loco:

[quote=“bismarck”][quote=“dan2006”]all these “defence” moves are a super waste of money.

No matter how much arms Taiwan buys, which are more than likely US throwaways, it would never keep pace with China… What Taiwan would spend in a year is most likely what China would spend in an hour in weapons… best to put that money to better use instead of inflaming tensions.[/quote]
There is actually some truth in that.[/quote]

Some truth and a major logical flaw. Ask yourself, why would it inflame tensions? China knows it’s not a meaningless waste at all. They would like nothing more than for Taiwan to be a pushover. Just doing enough to make an invasion a question mark will be a huge help in negotiations and helps insure an invasion never happens. Anyone who thinks that Taiwan’s defense posture has nothing to do with the low likelihood of an invasion at the present time is seriously wrong in my opinion.

Even the KMT knows you can’t play the game without any cards in your hand. Taiwan has played the game pretty well for a long time at a reasonable cost and considerable benefit. If you think it’s better to just pack it in and let China control things here fine, but the kind of defeatism dan2006 shows above ignores history and reality.

In an TV discussion on PTS channel, 有話好說, one of the experts on the panel, a former military man, concluded that conventional warfare with China would be futile- the imbalance of force is too apparent. Thus, he suggested that Taiwan change its strategy to guerilla warfare. His suggestion is to let the Chinese take over without too much resistance, and then make it very hard for them to control through local militia and guerilla tactics. Instead of learning tactics from America, he suggested Taiwan consider tactics deployed by defiant Iraqis and Afghanis. In his view, launching an offensive using guerilla tactics would be far cheaper and more effective, using inexpensive weapons. It will also draw in China’s resources considerably in efforts to contain the situation. As for training, Taiwanese men all have elementary arms training in the military, thanks to conscription. There are inaccessible mountainous areas which also make good hideouts. As for who will form these guerilla groups? The expert is contends that there are enough radical “patriots” who are willing to become martyrs- guerilla armies are merely made up small groups of disgruntled people bent on wreaking havoc.

Thank god that comes from a “former” military man. I really have trouble taking that crap seriously.

Nah, they should order something nice to shoot with every now and than.
Even if it is just for the pleasure of pissing off China :raspberry:

[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“bismarck”][quote=“dan2006”]all these “defence” moves are a super waste of money.

No matter how much arms Taiwan buys, which are more than likely US throwaways, it would never keep pace with China… What Taiwan would spend in a year is most likely what China would spend in an hour in weapons… best to put that money to better use instead of inflaming tensions.[/quote]
There is actually some truth in that.[/quote]

Some truth and a major logical flaw. Ask yourself, why would it inflame tensions? China knows it’s not a meaningless waste at all. They would like nothing more than for Taiwan to be a pushover. Just doing enough to make an invasion a question mark will be a huge help in negotiations and helps insure an invasion never happens. Anyone who thinks that Taiwan’s defense posture has nothing to do with the low likelihood of an invasion at the present time is seriously wrong in my opinion.

Even the KMT knows you can’t play the game without any cards in your hand. Taiwan has played the game pretty well for a long time at a reasonable cost and considerable benefit. If you think it’s better to just pack it in and let China control things here fine, but the kind of defeatism dan2006 shows above ignores history and reality.[/quote]

Taiwan can buy as many weapons as it wants, if China wants Taiwan, it will steamroll it in about an hour. (Thats not defeatism, thats reality)

And forget about 20 year old kids trying to defend it.

But it is a moot point, there will be no invasion, just a lot of posturing. In addition, do you really think China wants to “control” Taiwan? They have their hands full in their own land mass at this time.

Taiwan might well consider overhauing its subs. Several companies are doing excellent work in this line and offer good value with modernization.

Class 209/1400MODS

Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME) in South Korea are also doing excellent overhaul work closer to Taiwan.

I can arrange further info to interested principals…:smiley:

fixed for you.

sure,sure, sure… whatever. Twist and spin.

Chen didn’t buy a thing, because he was stymied by the KMT. Soon as they’re in power, the KMT suddenly provide money for the very arms they blocked earlier. Nice to see that you have such a clear view of the glorious nation state of Taiwan from your PRC bunker.

That info didn’t show up in Xinhua…