I’m laughing at the thought of politicians sitting around analyzing this forum.
They’d actually learn something.
I’ve told people before.
The first political party, whether Pan-Blue or Pan-Green, that offers Taiwan passports to foreign spouses AND to many long-term ARC holders will get their votes for like 2 decades worth if they can keep their own country’s passport. Count those votes. They’re quite a lot. I’d vote for any party for 2 decades that would not force me to give up my passport.
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How about just telling the fukking gov’t to read forumosa for a while. get an ID and post a question or 2. Another area this government (whether KMT or DPP) is missing some chromosomes."
Well, something about signal to noise ratio I guess… I read Forumosa, and anything I have read here that I thought was useful or relevant, I shared with them (including some related articles that I may or may not have found linked here).
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nearly 100% of taiwanese bosses want SE asian skilled labor coming in. because they are harder working, more efficient and smarter than most Taiwanese unskilled dlabor. plus way less entitled and easy to abuse. they just want an easy way to get out of paying benefits. taiwan intentionally straddles the fence to ensure poor living standards for them. the entire thing is a farce and needs to be exposed, on a dumb enough level, so that even the entitled drama watching local zombies can comprehend and not feel their deep fried dog food is at risk.
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Not only here, same in Europe, or even worse because in the EU they want unskilled cheap labour. That’s why the EU is so successful in closing borders to poor immigrants. They want to drive wages down.
Europe isn’t the same. If you have a work visa you will have a lot more rights there.
If you tried to treat caregivers in Europe the same as some Taiwanese employers you would go to jail.
Also legally employed workers get the same minimum wage, no matter their origin.
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Not defending the treatment of migrant workers here as it is basically slavery but pretty sure they cannot be paid below minimum wage. Instead what happens is they are “paid in kind”. Such as free meals and housing instead. It is also a thing in Europe btw, some allow pay in kind similar to Taiwan, some don’t have any min wage at all and a few allow it for seafarers.
Well Europe is not a monolith but there are also maby countries that offer a fairer labour system and all are signed up to the European court of human rights
Caregivers aren’t covered under Taiwan’s labour standards act so they dont have the same minimum wage, working conditions etc as factory workers (who are covered).
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Aside from fisheries (which seem to be really in another universe in terms of labour abuse), I don’t think the migrant labour system in Taiwan is akin to “slavery.”
It’s more like the indentured labour system that followed it, the system that led to Indians and Chinese and other peoples migrating to work all around the British Empire (including the Caribbean, East Africa, Canada, Fiji . . . ). At least though many of these indentured workers were able to stay and contribute after their contracts were completed—unlike in Taiwan where these workers keep getting shuttled in and out.
Guy
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Caregivers are really treated better in Europe, but there is lots of crap going on with the agencies sending the caregivers from eastern Europe too.
Slaughterhouses, Amazon warehouses, delivery services/parcel delivery, farming, actually I believe that Europe treats those as badly as taiwan, minimum salariés can be circumvented by self employment and the free dormitories or whatever. Europe treats many like slaves too.
Nope , European labour regulations are much better overall. Again there are probably 30+ countries in Europe so there’s diversity, Romania won’t be the same as the UK.
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Jesus christ. Is that really why the foreign caregivers are so much cheaper than taiwanese? Is that actually the legal framework?
I always assumed it was an enforcement issue or perhaps a Taiwanese wanting more issue, not actual law.
Not legally speaking, but in practice. I would say the rock industry and farming in my experience are fairly close in some ways to the fishing industry. Not quite as bad as fisheries are out in the ocean without witnesses. But not far off either. Loads of “runaway slaves” here. Makes the caregivers situation look like luxury. not to take away from the bullshit they endure, but for perspective.
Then there are all the sex workers. truly slaves.
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Yup.
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Dear lord, that’s fucking disgraceful. I always assumed it was more like agencies charging them fees and such which lowered their take home and it was more a private industry scam, not that it was literally the law to allow to gouge them. All the foreign caregivers our family and friends have had got a pathetic pay of 23k~29k/month. which is insane for live in care. It is a cause of friction actually how people I would of normally respected fuck such people and are so entitled to assume they are there to basically lick the scat off the toilet rim. taiwanese versions seemed to be between 50~110k depending on workload and skill level. quite disgusting this would actually be written into law… !
then this article says 17k. not that under 30k is acceptable, but that’s just salt on the wound 
The industries I have been involved in are usually just gangsterism and fear mongering to put their workers in place. more of a private sector power trip than a government sanctioned abuse. I feel gross now.
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Many people in Europe have been working their as*es of for 4-5euros per hour. In Portugal and Spain salaries of 3 euros aren’t unheard off. Coupled with higher living costs that’s worse than in Taiwan.
Very few farm helpers get over 1000 euros/month in Germany, and often money taken away from their home country brokers… really it isn’t any better. If they can send home /take home 200-250 euros after a month they can call themselves lucky. There plenty ways around minimum wages in Germany too. And don’t forget about the state subventioned 400 euro jobs! That’s 12k twd for a full month of work (the second 12k twd will be paid for by the state)…
In Portugal or Spain minimum salary for 40 hours per week is anyhow only around 600 euros or 19k ntd… Bulgaria and Rumania none the better. The last 10-15 years it’s been a downward spiral in salaries for low skilled workers in Europe…
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Minimum legal wage in Spain is 33.33€/day or 1000€/month. Your 600€ data was true in 2008.
Source: https://www.mites.gob.es/es/guia/texto/guia_6/contenidos/guia_6_13_2.htm
But that’s about what they pay the Africans picking vegetables and fruits… As many people live in Europe without papers, don’t expect official minimum apply to them. There’s a reason behind the cheap veggies in Europe from Spain…
Prato is a city which relates to Chinese immigration, conditions there are crazy too, with hundred thousands paperless…
Also prostitution is another huge problematic field in Europe regarding labour rights.
Bulgaria right now is at 353euro. Romania, Latvia aren’t much better… Officially Portugal is around 750…
Sure, I said minimum legal salary.
El Ejido is a town that has based it’s wealthiness in semi-slavery working conditions for sub-saharans in the agricultural sector. It’s also well known for how little some of the local population like sub-saharans living there. Second largest political party is racist far-right. It’s like they expect people would disappear when not harvesting veggies.
You like to cherrypick the poorest states in Europe out of 30 plus countries and then list instances of illegal employment?
I don’t know what you are trying to prove here.
Shoild we go find poor people in Kaohsiung or Taitung to then compare? Look for the situation of illegal workers in Taiwan?
Compare apples to apples yeah.