They are described as angry because they are angry. People who are not able to control their emotion have anger management issues.
Or some foreigners simply don’t have any frustration.
If there’s stupid news story involving a foreigner, I laugh. If a kid points at me in the MRT and calls me a waiguoren, I don’t care. Taiwan is still backwards in many aspects, but time is the only solution. Meanwhile, no need to get worked up.
If we start to feel sorry for people who live in Taiwan, we should also start feeling sorry for those who have to deal with the “no foreigners allowed” signs in Japan, overt racism in South Korea, Manila’s crime rates, Thailand scams and rampant corruption, etc. I actually can’t even find a country better to live than Taiwan in Asia right now.[/quote]
Well all I can say is that I am pretty chilled and laid back person have lived in several countries and I have never become frustrated there to anything like the same degree. Everyone gets frustrated when they aren’t allowed to express their feelings or emotions- it’s natural. Or they might turn to alcohol (like a lot of foreigners in Taiwan do), which is just self-destructive. Regarding the word “shengqi” I think you will find that this has a much wider meaning than just angry as you or I understand the word.
If you don’t get frustrated from time to time in Taiwan then good for you. You must be the Bhuddistic model of composure.
Sure, a lot of other Asian countries are much more unpleasant than Taiwan in many respects. Taiwan certainly isn’t the best though (you should visit Malaysia and you will see what I mean). But the point is that Taiwan should be better than it is given its state of economic development. The Philippines are poor- in rural areas many people have 10+ kids that they can’t afford to raise. So of course crime is high. In Thailand the majority of people are poor. If you stay away from bars though then you are much less likely to get scammed- just chill out on the beach.
South Korea and Japan are well-off countries but do have their own problems regarding their view of the outside world. It may well be worse there for foreigners. However that doesn’t mean that it’s good in Taiwan and that one shouldn’t aspire to change there.
[quote=“mike029”]
One example is that teacher. For three years, the foreign student office at Zheng-Da has sent reps over to this department to tell them to fire this teacher. She verbally harasses students, throws things at them, and is just crazy.[/quote]
Some Chinese class teachers at Zheng-Da are so fail… I had one who was constantly making bad jokes. About those “ugly indigenius people in the South” and about beating people. And children. Frustrated old guy.
Jeez…if you get angry you have “anger management issues”?
It’s a natural human response to become angry in certain situations, which is why the emotion of anger is built into the human psyche. If absolutely nothing makes you angry, then in my opinion, you have a couple of screws loose.
Of course, we could all behave like the Taiwanese and be all ‘piesay’ until one person too many accidentally bumps into one of us without saying sorry, then we can butcher them by the side of the road with a meat cleaver taken from a convenient street stand, thus letting all our pent up anger out in one go. Just look at the Apple Daily everyday to see how many people flip.
This is a highly strung society and there are reasons for it.
I prefer to describe it as rolling with the punches. Man. I’m generally happy here. You have a problem with that, then its yours, not mine. I couldn’t give a shit.
God! When I read the emails and talk on the old skype with my siblings and hear about the utter, utter crap they deal with on a daily basis in the UK with their kids… and they live in nice areas, too. Shudder! What an ABSOLUTE shithole it is over there. I’m going in September, but only for two weeks, thank FUCK![/quote]
Ni xiang tai duo. Must have been a Freudian slip by me though . Why should I have a problem with foreigners being happy in Taiwan- it’s good for them that they have found happiness, right ?
Well I live in the UK now and it’s not perfect, like anywhere. It lacks the exoticness and expression of other countries, sometimes life can seem very mundane and predictable, and many people are too reserved or stuck up their own backsides. But in general people get treated as they deserve to be. The town/ city where I live, Milton Keynes, is very multicultural, there are a lot of Chinese families here and I find them to be very pleasant and friendly, actually more friendly than your average white Brit. Actually I find the Asians, South Americans, Europeans etc. who live here to be more approachable, warm and friendly than white British, maybe I feel a sense of affinity with them because I too come from a family of immigrants.
There are some bad areas in the UK, that’s for sure, where life is much more unpleasant than the worst that Taiwan has to offer. But to describe the whole of the UK as an “ABSOLUTE shithole” is, well, just plain wrong. British people like to whinge, remember- life is rarely as bad as they make it out to be.
I guess that you mean towards white foreigners, right ? Because I don’t think that there is much positive discrimination towards dark-skinned ones, is there ?
Sure, there is positive discrimination such as schools paying extra to have a white face which keeps the parents happy, or some people being extra polite and helpful to a white foreigner in order to give the impression that Taiwanese people are extra polite and helpful to white foreigners. All this is just superficial and is in no way related to how the Taiwanese really view people from other countries. I guess that you have been living in Taiwan many years now, and you really see the soul of the people while taking your wonderful photos. Surely that is something you must have picked up on ? Or do you feel that it’s really genuine ?
Personally I would rather be treated on my merits, as just another person and not be singled out for any special treatment, positive or negative. Otherwise you just lose touch with reality, and get a warped sense of your own worth and place in the world.
pg: I can’t agree with your assessment of other Asian countries in comparison to Taiwan, especially Malaysia. Taiwan is not perfect, and I certainly don’t think we should just shut up and accept the bad things. However, most other Asian nations actually are shitholes. They’re shitholes of their own making too. They’re places where the vast majority of people, both local and foreign, can’t earn nearly as much or live nearly as well as in Taiwan. Malaysia is hardly a model of racial harmony. It’s increasingly a case of Malaysia for the (Muslim) Malays. Why do you think there are so many Chinese Malaysians living in places like Australia with absolutely no desire to return to Malaysia other than on vacations to visit their relatives? I knew tons of Chinese Malaysians in Australia who said exactly this. I’ve also met Westerners who lived and worked in Malaysia and said it was essentially fucked.
My travels throughout Southeast Asia have given me absolutely no desire to ever live in Southeast Asia. Taiwan has its issues, but it’s leagues in front of any of the nations of Southeast Asia (with the exception of Singapore, though I haven’t been there). All of the stats bear this out also.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]pg: I can’t agree with your assessment of other Asian countries in comparison to Taiwan, especially Malaysia. Taiwan is not perfect, and I certainly don’t think we should just shut up and accept the bad things. However, most other Asian nations actually are shitholes. They’re shitholes of their own making too. They’re places where the vast majority of people, both local and foreign, can’t earn nearly as much or live nearly as well as in Taiwan. Malaysia is hardly a model of racial harmony. It’s increasingly a case of Malaysia for the (Muslim) Malays. Why do you think there are so many Chinese Malaysians living in places like Australia with absolutely no desire to return to Malaysia other than on vacations to visit their relatives? I knew tons of Chinese Malaysians in Australia who said exactly this. I’ve also met Westerners who lived and worked in Malaysia and said it was essentially fucked.
My travels throughout Southeast Asia have given me absolutely no desire to ever live in Southeast Asia. Taiwan has its issues, but it’s leagues in front of any of the nations of Southeast Asia (with the exception of Singapore, though I haven’t been there). All of the stats bear this out also.[/quote]
I went to Malaysia for Chinese New Year once, and I thought it was wonderful. My companions and I were discussing how we could get jobs there. But now I live in Malaysia, and my view has changed. I’m living in a foreign worker ghetto, there is nothing to do, there are no jobs that I can see, it is dirty, hotter than hell … Yes, there are wonderful beaches, which so far I have not seen. Yes, there is wonderful diving, which I can’t afford on my income and which in any case is not near here. KL? What really is there to do or see there, other than the Petronas Towers and a nice, big shopping mall?
Actually, I know there must be good points to the place, I just haven’t found them yet.
[quote=“bababa”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]pg: I can’t agree with your assessment of other Asian countries in comparison to Taiwan, especially Malaysia. Taiwan is not perfect, and I certainly don’t think we should just shut up and accept the bad things. However, most other Asian nations actually are shitholes. They’re shitholes of their own making too. They’re places where the vast majority of people, both local and foreign, can’t earn nearly as much or live nearly as well as in Taiwan. Malaysia is hardly a model of racial harmony. It’s increasingly a case of Malaysia for the (Muslim) Malays. Why do you think there are so many Chinese Malaysians living in places like Australia with absolutely no desire to return to Malaysia other than on vacations to visit their relatives? I knew tons of Chinese Malaysians in Australia who said exactly this. I’ve also met Westerners who lived and worked in Malaysia and said it was essentially fucked.
My travels throughout Southeast Asia have given me absolutely no desire to ever live in Southeast Asia. Taiwan has its issues, but it’s leagues in front of any of the nations of Southeast Asia (with the exception of Singapore, though I haven’t been there). All of the stats bear this out also.[/quote]
I went to Malaysia for Chinese New Year once, and I thought it was wonderful. My companions and I were discussing how we could get jobs there. But now I live in Malaysia, and my view has changed. I’m living in a foreign worker ghetto, there is nothing to do, there are no jobs that I can see, it is dirty, hotter than hell … Yes, there are wonderful beaches, which so far I have not seen. Yes, there is wonderful diving, which I can’t afford on my income and which in any case is not near here. KL? What really is there to do or see there, other than the Petronas Towers and a nice, big shopping mall?
Actually, I know there must be good points to the place, I just haven’t found them yet.[/quote]
I know a few expats living in Malaysia and they all love it. With the exception of one guy who is a pilot, and another couple who retired there, the rest are all self-employed running their own small businesses and bringing up their kids.
Bababa: yes it must suck not being able to get away to a lovely beach or diving. It’s the kind of people that CF Images talk about, who can lead the expat life in Malaysia, that love it. Beautiful condo with a pool, property rental and purchase prices very low. Relaxed and laid back, a calmer and more relaxed people. Many of the middle-class are educated abroad. It’s much easier to speak to people there and find a common ground. None of the hassle and ignorance which is the subject of these threads. I guess I am lucky in that I work from home so can spend a lot of time at the diving resorts, anywhere where there is WiFi,
Guy, yes there are serious racial issues in Malaysia, no way is it a country of equal opportunities. But while the Malays run the politics and have the big jobs, my impression is that the Chinese do pretty well, running small or medium sized businesses, they are hard working and entrepreneurial. It’s the Indians that really suffer, with the University quotas etc, they really are put down.
[quote=“pgdaddy1”]Bababa: yes it must suck not being able to get away to a lovely beach or diving. It’s the kind of people that CF Images talk about, who can lead the expat life in Malaysia, that love it. Beautiful condo with a pool, property rental and purchase prices very low. Relaxed and laid back, a calmer and more relaxed people. Many of the middle-class are educated abroad. It’s much easier to speak to people there and find a common ground. None of the hassle and ignorance which is the subject of these threads. I guess I am lucky in that I work from home so can spend a lot of time at the diving resorts, anywhere where there is WiFi,
[/quote]
With the exception of the pilot (who works for a Malaysian airline and has housing provided), none of the others live in beautiful condo’s with pools etc. They live pretty much the same as the local citizens do, in normal houses and apartments, on normal streets and facing the same struggles as everyone else. They’re expats but they don’t have the benefit of the “expat” package - it’d be more correct to call them immigrants I guess.
I have lived in Malaysia - in Kuala Lumpur, and I visit it often nowadays. My honest impression is that Malaysia is a notch above Taiwan in many respects. Yes, the people on the whole are poorer, but they tend to enjoy their life to a greater extent and seem much happier than their counterparts in Taiwan. I also feel Malaysians, whatever their ethnic background, to be far more genuine characters than people here in Taiwan. This to me is far more important than what you can get materialistically.
Yes, Taiwan is convenient and industrialised and the people have money blah blah blah, but when it comes down to it, I think the society is completely screwed.
I lived in normal accomodation in Malaysia. All my friends had jobs or businesses - and business are easier to set up in Malaysia than they are in Taiwan for foreigners. The environment on the whole is better. The traffic? Well, less reckless but still horrid - at least people acknowledge you or apologise if they fuck up. Nice architecture, nicer weather. Nicer food. And because it doesn’t pretend to be a developed country when it is clearly not, you know exactly where you stand.
You know, I like Taiwan, but as I said, the society here and they way people are educated and brought up - well, I guess different strokes and all that.
I 'd be interested in knowing where the people who are criticizing Malaysia went. Although I quite like KL, I could see how someone could find it not so great - it’s just a big city after all. But if you get up to some of the strongly Islamic, mostly Malay parts of the NE like Kuala Terranganu or Kota Bharu, you’ll find some of the most genuinely welcoming, hospitable and friendly people you’ll ever meet.
This thread reminds me of a story I heard of attributed to Socrates.
Socrates was sitting on the road to Athens when a traveller stopped and asked him what the Athenians were like.
“What are the people like where you come from?”
“Oh, they’re all liars and rogues. You can’t trust any of them.”
“You’ll find Athenians much the same, my friend.”
The man went on his way.
Another traveller stopped and asked Socrates the same question.
“What are the people like where you come from?” He asked again.
“They’re wonderful. Very kind and friendly.”
“Then you’ll find Athenians much the same.”
The meaning’s clear, though I wouldn’t say things are as simple as that. I generally find all Asians great to be around, no doubt because for some of the time at least I’m getting the white foreigner treatment. Whereas I couldn’t get out of Poland fast enough, the people were so morose. I know they aren’t all like that because I’ve taught lots of Poles and currently have two Polish teachers. They’re good people, it’s just that friendliness to strangers isn’t a national characteristic. I’ve lived abroad and travelled around a fair bit and in my experience people are just people the world over once you get to know them. But you do get back what you give out a lot, and you’ll perceive people as living up or down to your expectations of them.
My problem is that I have to live where it is convenient for my husband to live, and that is nowhere any tourist is going to be going. Basically it is an industrial wasteland. I’ve had people show up at my door with machetes, others outside screaming at us at one in the morning because of something some other foreigner did (they all look the same to the Malaysians, evidently).
My problem is that I have to live where it is convenient for my husband to live, and that is nowhere any tourist is going to be going. Basically it is an industrial wasteland. I’ve had people show up at my door with machetes, others outside screaming at us at one in the morning because of something some other foreigner did (they all look the same to the Malaysians, evidently).[/quote]
That’s tough. Sounds you like you are in a bad area there. I hope all goes well for you and maybe you can move to somewhere nicer.
I spent quite a lot of time on the islands (Perhentian and Tioman) for diving and the local Malays seemed pretty friendly. The other visitors from KL, Penang etc who were Malay and Chinese were very friendly, educated and well-informed. Compared to Taiwan stress levels are much lower.
You may want to split the thread once more to let people discuss pgdaddy1’s thesis that Taiwanese people are a bunch of rude fakers who are only kind to foreigners because they want to look good in front of white people. His other thesis seems to be that any foreigner who thinks Taiwanese are generally kind and decent is delusional. That may be worthy its own thread as well.
I’m generally happy here. You have a problem with that, then its yours, not mine. I couldn’t give a shit.
. Why should I have a problem with foreigners being happy in Taiwan- it’s good for them that they have found happiness, right ?