Taiwan - what's the attraction?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
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I noticed that noshrink has no intention of finally settling in Taiwan. Why should he, just about no one else does.

I’ve met foreigners here who complain about the countries they come from, but all of them will settle back “home”. Why?, because it is simply better. And when it comes to the crunch, the blue/green/red passport means more than being part of a future territory of the PRC. Most Taiwanese I work with agree, they are dual citizenship holders.

A pragmatic bunch we all are, when you strip away all the crap about culture, food, hot springs, etc.

Vietnam’s beaches are pretty ordinary, but the place is amazing, and fast becoming a hot-spot for international tourism, just like Thailand a few years back. What’s certain is that Taiwan will never become a tourist mecca. People come here to work, or study Chinese. And soon, much of the business will dry up, and people will just go to Beijing or Shanghai to study Mandarin. Taiwan will realise that the short-term gains of rapid industrialisation created a 400km long factory with an expensive labour force, despite the ridiculous proclimation (and whole NT$30m budget)by gov’t that 2002 is Ecotourism Year for Taiwan.

My travels around Taiwan have revealed to me what a lovely island this is (well, mostly was). But the disdain that the locals have for it is painful to see. People will not fly from Europe to see a 7-11 and ugly buildings covered in tiles. And expats will, in general, only be tempted to live here for short periods, or with cash inducements.

Does even ONE person (not of Taiwanese ancestory) intend to settle here? By this, I mean not spend 10 years here and complain about how bad US/Canada/UK, etc, is then go back to live. And would the Taiwanese even let you?

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NFI - This is great - intelligent analysis of the issue/s and not flat out flame breathing nastiness. This could make a very useful thread on living in Taiwan actually of benefit to us all.

For a country 1/3 the size of Tasmania and with only 30% of this land able to be lived on AND with a population of 24 million+ I think Taiwan has done a pretty resonable job. Could be better sure …

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Most important things first, welcome back Urbanjet. Hao jiu bu jian.

Jolie, am I correct in my assumption that you speak no Chinese? It may sound fascile, but every place has a culture. If you say it doesn’t either a) you’re simply ignorant, or b) what you mean is the culture here doesn’t fit with your notion of what it should be.

B is irremediable. If you don’t speak Chinese, the chances of A are tripled. You don’t understand TV, can’t read the newspapers, and most importantly can’t talk to people who don’t speak English. This limits your interactions to English speakers, who are disproportionately likely to be occi-philes who think everything in the West is better and want to move.

I admit the architecture is ugly and most scenic spots are marred with concrete boxes and power lines, but so what? There are nice spots to hike in the mountains and attractive tea houses to chill out in. The political scene is endlessly interesting and Buddhism is as thriving as anywhere in the world (my own personal/professional thing). The food is good. Personally I prefer it to Vietnamese, though not to Indian.

Also, as some one else hinted at, Taiwan doesn’t exist for my sake. I don’t expect things to change for my pleasure or benefit. You get the most out of any culture (Taiwanese, Chinese, German, or American Midwest) if you accept it on its own terms.

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quote:
Originally posted by Adroth:

If you actually had what it took to get out of the environment you hated, you wouldn’t be whining the way you are.

If those are the places that you enjoyed, why not stay in those places? If they were so perfect, what compelled you to leave?

Adroth,

I don’t know about Jolie and her husband, but many people who work here were tricked. You may not be on a contract, but often cutting short an assignment is a bad career move, and costs money in relocation etc. Especially if you have a family.

So, not everyone has their belongings in a blanket and can jump on a plane at the drop of a hat.

Grizzly, I also think the notion of having to learn Chinese is not particularly valid. Sure, if you have the time/interest, great. No doubt you will get more out of living here. But not all of us have only lived here. What about those of us that have lived in several countries, and intend to live in several more? Are we expected to be fluent in ALL languages? This is not realistic.

Susana, you cannot assume that someone will be crap at their job because they don’t love it here (although 3q is correct, you won’t give 100%). Often the people enamoured with the place are afraid to make tough (and sometimes unpopular) decisions, which is often why they bring in an expat. I’ve seen many examples of foreigners trying hard to be culturally sensitive in business, and they are just getting shafted by the locals.

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Unlike some of the other Asian countries like Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore, tourism was NEVER a top priority of the Taiwanese government. As NFI so incessantly and pointlessly reiterates, it was always a place for business and never a place for tourism. We already know that NFI. The government wanted businessmen who’d buy their semiconductors and computers, not tourists who’d buy little knick-knacks and souvenirs. So change topics please and move on for everyone’s sake.

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quote:
Originally posted by NFI: Does even ONE person (not of Taiwanese ancestory) intend to settle here? By this, I mean not spend 10 years here and complain about how bad US/Canada/UK, etc, is then go back to live. And would the Taiwanese even let you?

I’d like to think of myself as a person.

67

If NFI and Jolie want to rant on about Taiwan and run it into the ground… so let them… why should it matter to anyone who thinks Taiwan is better than what they can see

There have been no calls to move on from the thread that about “things you like about Taiwan” so why should people be obligated to move onto something else if it doesn’t suit the majority

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I have to say I agree pretty much with Jolie’s assesment. What’s unfortunate for me is that after such a long time living in Taiwan and Asia in general I just don’t see it anymore.

I guess that makes me a bit of a loser really. I do however see quite a bit of change taking place in Taiwan. Most of it is positive and it certainly has it’s detractors. More power to them, if a place needed a bee up it’s arse it would be Taiwan.

Sycophants like thyrdrail make me cringe. He probably hasn’t even been here to see the destruction first hand. Just follow the recent posts on Taiwan’s architecture to get the picture.

My problem isn’t with Taiwan’s natural beauty, it abounds. However, the people have certainly scared the landscape. The best example of this that I can think of and for those of you who know the area you will know what I’m talking about.

Lee Tung Hui- former president- someone who you would have to think can still pull a few strings has an open illegal rubbish dump not twenty meters from the front gate of his home. It is stacked meters high with old plastic bags, refrigerators, leather like armchairs and unsalvageable Hello Kitty plastic plates. I mean if that doesn’t tell you something about the attitude here toward the environment nothing will.

I would be prepared to sponsor a clean up the mountains scheme in Taipei area with my own money it bothers me that much. If people are interested? We’ll probably encounter a few adventures with the local gangsters, but I doubt if it would be life threatening. Although I wouldn’t rule out the possibility altogether.

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Hey, cool, a whiny expats thread. How refreshingly original.

I’d imagine that living here for a number of years, hating every minute of it but hanging on nonetheless purely because of the money must make some people feel like the most leprous of skanky whores, so please, you people who like it here, give them a break – they’re probably just wracked with guilt.

Taiwan’s a cesspit and I’m as happy as a pig in shit!

70

Jesus Jolie, what the fark are you still doing in Taiwan. It was over a year ago I remember you starting a similar rant about how much you hate Taiwan and how stupid anyone who likes it is. I remember you saying you had to come here for your career or something.

You’re a slave!

I love the freedom Taiwan gives me.

And NFI, I don’t want to stay in Taiwan my whole life, but I’d sure as hell choose it over Vietnam. You want to live in a ‘tourist Mecca’?

Bri

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NFI - What is this

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yes, it is true, i dont want to spend the rest of my life in taiwan…but then again, i didnt want to spend the rest of my life in NY either…and when i go back, it’ll be on the other side of the continent…is there something wrong with a change of pace once and a while?

we all have reaons for going to different countries to live, some of them environmental, some cultural and some financial…taiwan seems to fall into the last category…

but, so what? i suppose the first people to go live in the moon will complain about isolation too…and having to wear spacesuits when they go trekking… but not the view.

Im certain that expecting the host country to clean itself up and start behaving like they do back home is a part of culture shock…and CS is not limited to the first few months…and if you know youre leaving then why not enjoy what you can enjoy while youre here

taiwan = paradise…no, cesspool, hardly…my mom would tell us the to go “make some fun” when we were bored…you sound bored…go make some fun

BTW, i think LD hui’s garbage pile may be more a sign of his political influence these days! lol

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quote:
Originally posted by Fox: [QB Sycophants like thyrdrail make me cringe.[/QB]

Sycophant? Me thinks you take me waaay too seriously, dude. Sorry if I make you cringe.

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quote:
Originally posted by amos: Maybe you are a woman, if I could call you that, but my point is that I've actually never come accross (across) a woman with such a negetive (negative) outlook on everything....

With such pesemism (pessimisim), I bet your husband rolls over every time you open your mouth. Did you ever wonder why?

amos,
That’s a pretty sexist remark to make, Aussie sweetums! There are loads of “bitter bitches” in this world…you’ve probably been in the land of Hello Kitty way too long, and likely, haven’t married yet. Btw, your spelling is atrocious.

The funny thing about this “Jolie Troll-y” is that the things she has pointed out in her rabid discontent, are incredibly similar to things I’ve heard from quite a few expats over the years. I don’t think she’s alone in her sentiments about Taiwan. She’s just honest. If not, she’s just plain bored and has gone around with a tape recorder to places where expats congregate and say things to each other like, “THESE PEOPLE…”

I’m also thinking that Jolie’s preference for places like Vietnam, Cambodia, etc (forget which places she mentioned), has something to do with the kind of appreciation one has for developing countries as being ‘quaint’ 3rd world cultures in which the natives “don’t know any better”. You have more tolerance for THEM, don’t you Jolie?

In Taiwan, as rich and industrialised as it is, perhaps one has higher expectations. Perhaps one expects not to be jostled out of the way when queuing up, or being woken on Saturday mornings by jackhammers, because in Taiwan, “THESE PEOPLE should know better”. THEY’RE more advanced technologically, and more educated, and THEY’RE richer, so why can’t THEY stand to the right on escalators?
Yes, I’ve heard these things, even from some who’ve attacked Jolie on this very thread. So, please don’t sit there all smug and turn your noses up at her negativism when you’re guilty of your fair share of it yourselves.

I, too, have a love-hate relationship with Taiwan. And I have also expressed severe discontent about being here, or feeling trapped here, not knowing why I’ve stayed so long, but not knowing where to go next. But all I need to realise how much I really truly love living here, is to go back home for a week and see that my lifestyle back there would not be as suitable as the one I maintain here, and that my opportunities there now are almost sapped out, and that my friends back there are strangled in debt and job dissatisfaction and overwhelmed by inertia, to understand MY choice for being HERE instead.
But then, I’m having an I LOVE Taiwan day today.

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very nice lori

you may very well be a shrink

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Actually, I for one will eventually move back to the States, but it will be almostly completely for carreer reasons. If taiwan was competitive in that area for me, I’d choose to live here over the US.

My point with the language thing was not so much that you must learn the language. I was just torked by the “no culture” thing in particullar and wanted to point out that just because it is not accessible to you doesn’t mean it’s not there.

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quote:
Originally posted by Bu Lai En: Jesus Jolie, what the fark are you still doing in Taiwan. It was over a year ago I remember you starting a similar rant about how much you hate Taiwan and how stupid anyone who likes it is. I remember you saying you had to come here for your career or something.

Thank you…

If you’re here for the bucks or “career advancement,” then suck it up! Life is about making choices – you’re stuck here only because you chose your career over a good living environment. Don’t take it out on the rest of us just because you’re not happy with your options.

78

Curro,

Your Taiwan Tourism (there’s an oxymoron) campaign ideas are quite good.

For a while, Thailand was promoting itself with the tagline “Land of Smiles”. I thought we should amend this for Taiwan to be “Land of Tiles”.

The bli… visually specially abled, tourism promotion “Smells and Sounds” is a grand plan. But we’d have to something about the drains and the stinky Tofu sellers.

Grizzly,

OK, if I spoke Chinese, I’d have a greater appreciation of local culture? When I ask my office colleagues, what will you do on the weekend, they usually reply:

Shop, sleep, KTV, restaurant, work.

Getting all excited over a new mobile phone or a text message from Kitty is not much better.

Prada and Benz seem to be the most worshipped Gods in this country. Taiwan seems to be stuck in the '80s with consumerism and bad music a way of life.

79

Hello Alien,

You might be right. I guess my tolerance of places like Vietnam and Cambodia was higher because I expected nothing. Coming to Taiwan, I was expecting a modern, sleek, clean city that was efficient and EASY to live in. The facade was worn thin after a few months.

And the costs here! What about that? Other than Japan, my experience with Asian countries has always been that it is cheaper than the west. But this place is just ridiculous unless you want to eat on the street every night.

Been having a bad Taiwan month really,except a few weekends ago when a friend invited us up to her stunning farm in the mountains near Taichung. That was awesome and it was miserable returning to the city.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jolie: Been having a bad Taiwan month really,except a few weekends ago when a friend invited us up to her stunning farm in the mountains near Taichung. That was awesome and it was miserable returning to the city.

AHAA!!! After all your negative rantings, we find out that there IS something you like in Taiwan!! Could that be interpreted as a statement from you that something of beauty might exist in Taiwan afterall?