Taiwanese Citizenship and Renunciation

[Mataiou]

submitted, see below the complaint lodged:
This is to lodge a formal Human Rights Complaint against the Ministry of Interior regarding the current discriminatory rules for naturalisation of foreign or stateless persons.

There are 2 issues at hand, a major one and a minor one:

1. The major issue is the requirement for recently naturalised nationals (or as stated on the Nationality Act and its related Enforcement Rules, "naturalized foreign national or stateless persons) to submit a certificate of loss of the original nationality within one year from the approval of the naturalisation application;

2. The minor one is the usage of the term of “naturalized foreign nationals or stateless persons” in the Nationality Act and its related Enforcement Rules.

Both those issues are against Art. 7 of the Constitution, Art. 61 of the Immigration Act and art. 26 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights for different reasons, below the explanations:

1. The requirement to submit the certificate of loss of original nationality ex art. 9 of the Nationality Act and ex art. 11 of the Enforcement Rules of the Nationality Act put an undue and unequal burden of choice in a discriminatory manner on a specific group of nationals given that “natural or original” nationals of the State can acquire foreign citizenships without any hindrances like the burden of choosing whether to keep or relinquish voluntarily the nationality of the State. This is discrimination among nationals based on race, birthplace and/or other statuses since the persons applying for naturalisation at the scenario configured in the quoted articles are already naturalised since their applications have already been approved, so they are already nationals of the State;

2. The term “naturalized foreign nationals or stateless persons” used in the Nationality Act and its related Enforcement Rules is illogic and discriminatory since once a foreign or stateless person naturalises that person is not a foreign or stateless person anymore, that person is a national of the State and the term is therefore discriminatory since it is used to discriminate against a specific group of nationals based on their race, birthplace and/or other statuses.

The remedies sought after are the below:

1. The outright elimination of art. 9 of the Nationality Act and art. 11 of the Enforcement Rules of the Nationality Act in order to maintain the principle of equality of treatment of nationals under the law;

2. The substitution of the term “naturalized foreign nationals or stateless persons” in any part of the Nationality Act and its related Enforcement Rules with “recently naturalized nationals” to align with the anti-discriminatory nature of the Constitution and conform with art. 61 of the Immigration Act and art. 26 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

Please kindly refer then to the Constitution, the Immigration Act, the Nationality Act and its related Enforcement Rules and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

[justintaiwan]

@comfy123

@Mataiou

It must be equal, so either TW folks lose their passport when acquiring foreign nationality outright or u let foreign folks naturalise without renunciation. That’s equality, now is discriminatory against technically own nationals.

That’s where your case is going to get interesting… Because before it used to be that you had to renounce before becoming a NWHR and I wonder if they will just revert to the old situation

I would love to see a constitutional interpretation regarding this

[Satellite_TV]

@comfy123

@Satellite_TV

Sure, but you foreigners aren’t citizens.

His angle is once you become a NWHR

Go for it.

[Satellite_TV]

@tando

At least, the lack of an ROC nationality is obvious for such baby, born here with foreign parents on APRC.

Not always. When I renounced Australian citizenship I had to get a letter from the government here proving that my son born here to an ROC mother did not have ROC citizenship. It took me a long time to find a person who would do that and it was someone in the census bureau. My son was listed as a dependent on my ARC after birth then moved to his own ARC later on.

[Satellite_TV]

@HongKonger

Oh you’re right. Although in practice, it’s kind of hard to prove the lack of a foreign nationality, no? How do you prove the lack of something? Show up empty-handed?

I think, in practice, they will just assume your kid received foreign citizenship if they were born there, even if they didn’t.

In some EI countries children born where both parents are foreigners holding residency those child do do not get citizenship at birth. They would only get citizenship if they can demonstrate they would not get one of the parents citizenship.

[Satellite_TV]

@HongKonger

They might have naturalized as Taiwanese, and still kept their old APRC card (maybe falsely reported as “lost” or something so they never turned it in)

Not possible. You have to hand in your ARC and it will be cancelled. At least mine was.
Perhaps Fuzzy BBQ could say if that was the same for him for his Gold Card.

[Satellite_TV]

@Mataiou

further to this, Taiwan ratified the ICERD ( International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) while still at the UN, and article 5 let. f talks about the right to nationality, to fight statelessness (even if there is a specific convention to fight statelessness).

It is the right to a single nationality not dual citizenship.

[tando]

@Satellite_TV

When I renounced Australian citizenship I had to get a letter from the government here proving that my son born here to an ROC mother did not have ROC citizenship.

Do you mean you needed to prove your son is not an ROC national to the Australian government? Is it because his mother is an ROC national, or any Australian with a child born here, or anywhere overseas, should provide it to renounce Australian citizenship?

[Mataiou]

my comment is about fighting statelessness, so TW is tbh in no position to go back to the original arrangement of asking for the renunciation before naturalising otherwise u might end up with some actual stateless ppl.

That’s the reason that was changed.

[Satellite_TV]

@Mataiou

u know what, I just bloody going to submit the complaint now and whatever.

Here too many folks complain and do jackshit, I have my plan already tbh, but if that fails it would be nice to have a plan B (shit happens, always think about the worst).

If successful folks can thank me later.

[Omniloquacious] I believe made a submission maybe see what he provided.

[tando]

@Satellite_TV

@HongKonger

They might have naturalized as Taiwanese, and still kept their old APRC card (maybe falsely reported as “lost” or something so they never turned it in)

Not possible. You have to hand in your ARC and it will be cancelled.

I don’t think the old APRC card can be used to prove their lack of ROC nationality, but it is possible to keep a card they falsely reported as “lost”.

[Mataiou]

He did to what it was the NDC before. The NDC can formulate policy proposals, as it did, and submit to the relevant agencies for the various regulations, but ultimately the competent agency can just ignore as it is not constitutionally required to pursue.

The Control Yuan is a constitutionally established organ who has investigative and remedial and censure powers clearly enunciated in the control yuan act, the enforcement rules of the control yuan act and the constitution itself (cap. IX) and the Additional Article. If they find that a people’s complaint is substantiated and after gathering evidence from the competent agencies they rule that the competent agency must take remedial action, the agency is compelled to comply or they will be requested to appear if front to the control yuan for further disciplinary actions.

[Satellite_TV]

@tando

@Satellite_TV

When I renounced Australian citizenship I had to get a letter from the government here proving that my son born here to an ROC mother did not have ROC citizenship.

Do you mean you needed to prove your son is not an ROC national to the Australian government? Is it because his mother is an ROC national, or any Australian with a child born here should provide it to renounce Australian citizenship?

Yes to the first part. If I renounced my citizenship my son would have lost his if he was already an ROC citizen as he was born outside of Australia. So being born in Taiwan to an ROC mother I was required to prove he wasn’t one. I did not include him in my application become a citizen here even though I could have. As I did not include my son in my application the Australian Government could not let him become stateless but I had to prove he was not an ROC citizen a statutory declaration statement was not enough. When I renounced in 1998 I think it was there was no resumption of citizenship for Australia. That resumption law passed 01 July 2007 and I did not have a crystal ball that a near decade after renouncing that a law would be passed allowing me to resume which I did in 2011. I only resumed because my lad was starting university in Australia in March 2011 and well, while I was there applied. Also by applying in Australia I could bring all my original documents to immigration department and they make copies and certify them for free. Costly if you had to do that in say an overseas office or in a court. My resumption fee was A$50. I returned to Taiwan where I got my resumption of citizenship in July 2011.

Taiwan passed a law in 2000 allowing those born from 1980 to ROC mothers to obtain Taiwan citizenship. My son was born in 1991. However he waited until his dependent ARC was about to expire and was in Australia and applied for his Taiwan passport there.

Getting a Taiwan passport overseas by descent means you do not have an ID card or Household registration. So he cannot be drafted for the military even if he uses the NWHR passport to enter Taiwan which he has done.

TECO in Sydney in 2011 were confused, you are claiming nationality as both parents are ROC citizens yet you were born in Taiwan and wtf, your father is white. He had to provide copy of my ID card and HH as well as his mothers, marriage certificate et

[HongKonger]

@Satellite_TV

You have to hand in your ARC

You hand them the replacement one and keep the old “lost” one.

In any case, it’s anyone’s guess how much cooperation there is between most counties. What I mean is, if I showed Argentina (for example) my Taiwan APRC, would they even know what to do with it? How would they even verify that it’s still active?

[Satellite_TV]

@Mataiou

my comment is about fighting statelessness, so TW is tbh in no position to go back to the original arrangement of asking for the renunciation before naturalising otherwise u might end up with some actual stateless ppl.

That’s the reason that was changed.

Yes that happened to a Pakistani chap. However he had been charged and convicted of crimes and as you know if you fail the character test you don’t get citizenship. Pakistan for whatever reason did not let him resume.

I was stateless for 10 months. I complained to the Australian government and their reply was Meh you don’t have to get nationality immediately. They had lots of reasons I could not resume being stateless. Also suggested I apply for an ex citizen visa then realized I don’t have a travel document to put it in. They would have to issue a special travel document with an ex citizen visa lol.

[Mataiou]

those are some of the reason the regulation changed, and with the way things are now there are grounds to do something, before it was different, the burden was on a foreigner, so as u said whatever, foreigners don’t count for nationality issues.

But now technically is a national who has to give up his previous nationality, and that’s discrimination.

I do not need to care about other countries’ legislations on the matter, they are irrelevant for this matter. I care about how the current TW legislation is, not how it was and not worth to think about how it could be.

[Satellite_TV]

Yes see you are the smart one you will fight this on being a national who is required to renounce a foreign citizenship. Not sure why no one else thought of this before. Too busy complaining on this thread to do anything themselves they need a saviour to do things for them.

if people can get dual citizenship what will happen to all the woe is me narrative?

Many people have written on this thread that Taiwan citizenship means nothing to them or that they wouldn’t want it anyway or that no one outside your area will accept you as a citizen. Why would anyone want citizenship of a country that won’t treat them as citizens. The other claim was that banks will still look at you as a foreigner and refuse you a loan. Fuzzy BBQ has put that one to rest that claim hasn’t aged well.

[Satellite_TV]

I was lucky I applied before APRC existed so ARC’s did have a use by date. I posted a picture of mine before… use by 1997 lol

[Mataiou]

I just read things, not smart at all. Smart ppl do fun things, not complaining to the Control Yuan.

[Satellite_TV]

I miss all the special treatment of being told no you cannot do this or that as a foreigner. Citizenship was such a hoot back in the 1990’s. I can no longer complain… I think I’ve been cheated.