Ties that are not much expressed, no hugs, no talking, no encouragement, not much interest in the others personal life and problems seem to be ties that are hardwired into people by culture, by standard default setup so to speak, not a result of anything personal, individual, not a matter of choice or love.[/quote]
Oh for god’s sakes! 
Them wily inscrutable Orientals, eh? Damn! They’re just not like us at all!
Heck, in the culture of the U.S. you’d be setting yourself up for potential lawsuits, wouldn’t you?
But you’re right about culture. The article tommy linked to is stupid because it ignores the fact (or at least I think it’s a fact) that east Asians tend not to be huggers. Lots of huggers in the States. I would imagine Mexico and Central America score high on the hug-meter too. Probably the same in Italy, Spain, France, Greece, Thailand, Phillipines and lots of other nations. But Chinese, Japanese and Koreans – especially men – I would think they score very poorly in terms of non-violent physical contact with good friends and family (and expressing affection generally). Just not in their cultural makeup. Too bad.[/quote]
Actually the proper term for a no lawsuit hug is called a church hug. Full frontal is a definite no no. I hear you can get away with it if you are a catholic priest though.
Now this is just dumb! What did you read?
I never said anything about too much positive reinforcement, You did? Why?? But how about SOME. Ask Taiwanese workers and families how often they do well and no one gives them any support or tells them they have done well. I see adults/teens daily, but if you don’t do so well, guess what the boss or mom/dad says. Also it has nothing to do with hugs. C’mon.
And you have never had a 20% decline in you academic experience. Not to mention maybe you are great at science but just OK in history. There are so many other factors. Sheesh! 
[quote]
Ties that are not much expressed, no hugs, no talking, no encouragement, not much interest in the others personal life and problems seem to be ties that are hardwired into people by culture, by standard default setup so to speak, not a result of anything personal, individual, not a matter of choice or love.[/quote]
As my Taiwanese G’friends say there is a word for this. TRADITION.
Therefore you are a FAILURE! And on top of that, it probably means that you don’t LOVE TAIWAN enough. KNEES DOWN! Accept the punishment, you useless good-for-nothing!
[quote]You already showed you were capable of near perfection and had almost a 20% decline.[/quote] Heh-heh, maybe that’s why, when I was in the military, this senior NCO once told me, “Never give a hundred percent, or they’ll expect it from you all the time.”
Now this is just dumb! What did you read?
I never said anything about too much positive reinforcement, You did? Why?? But how about SOME. Ask Taiwanese workers and families how often they do well and no one gives them any support or tells them they have done well. I see adults/teens daily, but if you don’t do so well, guess what the boss or mom/dad says. Also it has nothing to do with hugs. C’mon.
And you have never had a 20% decline in you academic experience. Not to mention maybe you are great at science but just OK in history. There are so many other factors. Sheesh!
[/quote]
This thread is originally about the family ties of individuals in Taiwan. Many posters have suggested that Taiwanese should hug more like western families. I was merely bringing a new thought to the conversation. I think that the overly affectionate and constant positive reinforcement for everything in the west is not a good thing. If a child scores a 100 in science and then 80 in the next quarter they should not be congratulated because they already demonstrated a high level of talent. If they are a weak student in history and score a 70% but then work very hard and get 100% they should get praise. I believe a parent’s job is to be a parent and bring out the best in their child, not to be a cheerleader / hugbox. This was all that I was touching on.
And no, I never had a 20% academic decline ever. Not because my parents pushed me(they didnt), but because the majority of my classes were graded on a curve. School is a whole lot more fun when you can be the spoiler for other student’s report cards.
Should that not maybe be “American” rather than “Western?” My family doesn’t hug. Neither do any of the other families I know over there. Its considered a bit poofy.
The majority of European families I have met have been more affectionate than American families. Maybe you are just exception?
[quote=“sandman”]
My family doesn’t hug. Neither do any of the other families I know over there. Its considered a bit poofy.[/quote]
[color=#FF00BF]Jimi"s a big POOFTAH![/color] :discodance:
[quote=“jimipresley”][quote=“sandman”]
My family doesn’t hug. Neither do any of the other families I know over there. Its considered a bit poofy.[/quote]
[color=#FF00BF]Jimi"s a big POOFTAH![/color] :discodance:[/quote]
That was merely my subtext, my dear fellow. And don’t you be dragging them damned continentals into the discussion! We ALL know about the Spanish and their frou-frou ways. AND them bloody Eyties. Any nation that takes a nap in the afternoon is EXTREMELY suspect in the pooferdom arena.
[quote]This thread is originally about the family ties of individuals in Taiwan. Many posters have suggested that Taiwanese should hug more like western families. I was merely bringing a new thought to the conversation. I think that the overly affectionate and constant positive reinforcement for everything in the west is not a good thing. If a child scores a 100 in science and then 80 in the next quarter they should not be congratulated because they already demonstrated a high level of talent. If they are a weak student in history and score a 70% but then work very hard and get 100% they should get praise. I believe a parent’s job is to be a parent and bring out the best in their child, not to be a cheerleader / hugbox. This was all that I was touching on.
And no, I never had a 20% academic decline ever. Not because my parents pushed me(they didnt), but because the majority of my classes were graded on a curve. School is a whole lot more fun when you can be the spoiler for other student’s report cards.[/quote]
I respect your opinion, but why generalize? “The west”. As I always have to say to my students, you mean Germany, England, the USA, Iceland, Brazil, etc…are all the same? They all have the same exact habits, do all these places? I for one had a family that would ask why our scores dropped. My dad would ask what happened if we scored lower than the last test. Not just say “Awwww, it’s OK, 81 is still nice” (hug). Still he would not jump on top of us. I know of other U.S. and Canadian families just like this. We got punished sometimes. Families here are overworked but also the time you spend together should be positive more than negative. Talk to each other not at each other.
There should be some balance. But if I had to take too much positive reinforcement over negative guess which I’d choose if only one choice. Also there are so many examples of people that failed in “the west” but overcame the failures. I think if everyone were always telling them you can’t do it. It would be terrible. Failure here is dealt with more harshly IMO.
And you are truly great, because a lot of people I know went up and down score wise in their academic career (a curve). 
There is a big difference between the average level of physical affection shown by Spanish or Italian or Greek families as compared with the average level shown by Scottish or English families!
Anglo-American and Canadian family styles tend more to the English/Scottish styles. Latino families tend to be more affectionate.
And you have to also remember that British families (particularly Northern types) show their affection by taking the piss out of each other. To an outsider looking in, it may seem like the dad really hates his kids, but hey at least they are talking. And the kids aren’t offended.
There it is.
[quote=“Dangergyrl”] constant positive reinforcement for everything in the west is not a good thing. If a child scores a 100 in science and then 80 in the next quarter they should not be congratulated because they already demonstrated a high level of talent. If they are a weak student in history and score a 70% but then work very hard and get 100% they should get praise. I believe a parent’s job is to be a parent and bring out the best in their child, not to be a cheerleader / hugbox. This was all that I was touching on.
[/quote]
If we are dicussing positive reinforcement as a parent shown reinforcing good behaviour by giving love when good is done and witholding love for bad/ not good acts performance then i read a very pertinent article.
Although reward based affection has been shown to improve acadmenic performance, it has been shown to be worse than constant affection in one key respect, in adulthood the children tend to suffer from low achievement and low motivation. Without constant reward, they find themselves demotivated as adults and perform worse. Therefore, yes, it is best to love you children unconditionally.
More details here
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/punished_by_rewards/
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Unconditional-Parenting/Alfie-Kohn/e/9780743487481
[quote]The results showed that kids who received positive attention from their parents in response to good behavior said they saw the point of the positive behaviors that their parents were trying to promote—but did not necessarily believe in the value of those behaviors themselves. The analysis of their academic performance found that these were the types of kids who focus more on tests and grades than on actually learning—more focused on results than on understanding the important principles behind those results. The kids with parents who used this style also tended to suppress their fear and anger, which is not healthy.
[/quote][/quote]