The parallel with Canada is that just as the USA and Canada are thought (by Taiwanese) to have a common culture, but are two separate countries, so with China and Taiwan.
Waishengren and Benshengren are identity groups. Such identities evolve over time, and need not be based on “race” (whatever that means). For example, in the 19th century the people whose descendents would call themselves “Taiwanese” saw themselves in terms of Fujian-based regional identities, clans, or surname groups (and fought one another on this basis). In the future, if new waves of immigrants arrive (perhaps from China), this may force existing groups to rethink their identities.
I’ve lived around and with waishengren, including my wife and her family, since 1995. Before 2000 I’d heard every manner of paranoid speculation about what would happen if the greens got the presidency.
Well they none of the worries materialized and the sane wsr I know, and thankfully my wife is one of them, slowly began to realize what a bunch of colonialist bigoted bullshit they had been fed as children and not only stopped fearing an independent republic but actually learned to be in favor of it (even if they still can’t quite bring themselves to vote green - yet).
So why wouldn’t Kinmen be thrown to the dogs? Because it would be political suicide: the media would lap it up and the majority of the people from both camps would see the inherent unfairness of it and oppose any such move. Besides, no one seems to have seriosuly consider this since the mid 90s. Can you provide a single bit of evidence that this is still current DPP policy? if you can’t I’m afraid you have to let the issue go or be sent to join the ranks of flat earther, global warming denialists, and 911 conspiracists.
You see on my side I have 8 years of a DPP presidency in which Kinmen’s status did not change except in ways that strengthened its position as an integral part of Taiwan. As Cranky said, it became over-represented in the legislative, DPP candidates began to run for local office, the island’s status as a national park was not downgraded as one would expect if the long term plan was to give it away; and so on.
On your side you have a map and a closet full of preconceptions
You seem a poor victim of an overseas community whose thinking toward the homeland froze in the mid 90s. Come over here and see for yourself just how ridiculous the predujices you have are (and you have far more than you realize).
[quote=“Vorkosigan”][quote=“freetaiwanblog”]
The official DPP is flag is even worse: it only includes Taiwan. Penghu and Green Island / Orchid Island are small archipelagos that always belonged to “Taiwan” - Kinmen (Jinmen) (Jinmen) and Mazu have only been in one political entity since 1945. Before they were part of different countries (Japan / Qing China, ROC) or provinces (which they are still today).[/quote]
The flag of Canada just shows a maple leaf. There’s not even a tree trunk![/quote]
There are some parents on here that might have something to say about that!
The “Chinese” have been here over 300 years, alongside aboriginal peoples, European colonialists and the Japanese. Given time, people fuck. I think it was mostly men who came as workers - where did the second generation’s mothers come from? They are not the same people who arrived here. I reckon there’s probably a fair amount of Spanish and Dutch blood in the mix. What do sailors do in port?
So the Taiwan Wonder did not happen and Western democracy is still far away for the Republic of China ? Wait - wasn’t a non-Kuomintang member already R.O.C.-President? And did the Taiwan people not actually ELECT a Kuomintang-member to be R.O.C.-President in 2008 ?
Without the KMT and Republic of China, Taiwan would have long been a part of the PRC. Without the KMT’s acceptance for reform, a democratization would not have been possible.
It shows a lot how the Taiwan people did not want 4 years more of the DPP after enduring Chen Shui-bian.
[quote=“freetaiwanblog”]Without the KMT and Republic of China, Taiwan would have long been a part of the PRC. Without the KMT’s acceptance for reform, a democratization would not have been possible.
It shows a lot how the Taiwan people did not want 4 years more of the DPP after enduring Chen Shui-bian.[/quote]
There’s that logic again:
The KMT protected Taiwan from the commies.
The KMT allowed democratic reform in Taiwan.
Therefore, the people of Taiwan did not want another 4 years of DPP rule in 2008.
Without Taiwan the R.O.C. would have probably retreated to Hainan and not lost it after 1949.
Hainan is actually a very good example of what would have happened to Taiwan without the Republic of China.
You may hate it, yet out of the last 350 years, Taiwan has been a part of Ming/Qing/Republican China for 290 years and Japanese for 50 years – there just seems to be no space for a Taiwanese Republic boo hoo hoo
Now enjoy using your ZhongHua MinGuo ARC / ID-Card
[quote=“freetaiwanblog”]Without Taiwan the R.O.C. would have probably retreated to Hainan and not lost it after 1949.
Hainan is actually a very good example of what would have happened to Taiwan without the Republic of China.[/quote]
Hainan was actually under ROC control before the KMT government retreated to Taiwan; the ROC lost it. So no, Hainan would not be a good example of what would have happened to Taiwan without the ROC. Learn your history.
Your point? Your logic is obviously flawed, otherwise Chen Shui-bian would not have been able to be elected in 2000. (“Out of the last 72 years (from 1928 to 2000), the ROC president has been a KMT member for all 72 years - there just seems to be no space for a DPP president boo hoo hoo.”)
You mean we would have a much lower population, almost no pollution, world class beaches and first rate infrastructure on those beaches? I would like that.
[quote=“freetaiwanblog”]Without the KMT and Republic of China, Taiwan would have long been a part of the PRC. Without the KMT’s acceptance for reform, a democratization would not have been possible.
[/quote]
Actually, without the outbreak of the Korean War, the US would have happily washed their hands off CKS if ROC (Taiwan) were not needed by the US as allies for a united front in the Cold War fought on proxy battlefields. ROC (Taiwan) was only a poster boy for the US as an example of what a capitalist “Free China” could be and enjoyed US protection for that. To be more accurate, it would be better to say that: KMT, with the backing of the US (especially since many other powerful nations had already switched recognition to PRC), kept the PRC at bay.
Reform came in stages. First came economic reform and land reform (ironically protectionist rather than liberal free market); then decades of martial law later, after resistance from pro-democracy groups, came political reform via Lee Teng-Hui.
The KMT were present to witness reform and democratization, but they were not necessarily the great benefactors they would like present themselves.
