Taiwanese guys and "I love you"

[quote=“headhonchoII”]

He’s talking rubbish, take it from somebody who is actually involved in the clinical side of this. Hormones and testing of such is a very finicky and little understood area of medicine. You need to relate ratios of hormones ,check for cross reactivity, check against age, sex and myriad other things…and even then there is not consensus on some basic matters such as testosterone replacement therapy (which has a huge marketing push behind it in the US to get aging males to test testo levels and buy the stuff $$$). Now it probably is useful for some, but jumping to broad conclusions when it’s clearly a cultural thing in Taiwan…don’t do it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Nice to hear from someone who’s got some solid knowledge/experience on the topic. I’m actually quite fascinated with it right now (recently edited a research paper about testosterone replacement therapy. Some qualitative data- participants gave rave reviews). I wonder what side effects will show up with testosterone replacement therapy, or will the relative age of the patients mean that effects (which might take many years to show up) won’t show up (patients being dead before the effects catch up to them?).
Weren’t there some issues with female hormone replacement therapy?

There was also some talk of xeno-estrogens in plastics and pesticides. Prenatal endocrine disruption :frowning: enough to make you want to move to a mountaintop somewhere to get away from all the pollution.

they are just trained to say what Taiwanese girls wanna hear… no biggie… don’t take it seriously. altho guys here are more clingy and so are the girls, what are you gonna do? thats the culture. is it really so hard to understand that they do things differently here …in this different country?

[quote=“headhonchoII”][He’s talking rubbish, take it from somebody who is actually involved in the clinical side of this. Hormones and testing of such is a very finicky and little understood area of medicine. You need to relate ratios of hormones ,check for cross reactivity, check against age, sex and myriad other things…and even then there is not consensus on some basic matters such as testosterone replacement therapy (which has a huge marketing push behind it in the US to get aging males to test testo levels and buy the stuff $$$). Now it probably is useful for some, but jumping to broad conclusions when it’s clearly a cultural thing in Taiwan…don’t do it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

No, you are. Unless you’re an actual endocrinologist your knowledge is insignificant compared to mine. Also what you have written about ratios etc is offtopic since not only is it completely basic and common knowledge but also taken into consideration in all studies.

The hair and/or lack of it as well as mental states is directly linked to their hormones. It is not a coincidence that low dht always results in certain mental dispositions, lack of hair, and child appearance. As well as other things. Read studies which show what happens when you administer DHT compounds. Then read the studies in people with naturally low DHT.

[quote=“triceratopses”][quote=“headhonchoII”][He’s talking rubbish, take it from somebody who is actually involved in the clinical side of this. Hormones and testing of such is a very finicky and little understood area of medicine. You need to relate ratios of hormones ,check for cross reactivity, check against age, sex and myriad other things…and even then there is not consensus on some basic matters such as testosterone replacement therapy (which has a huge marketing push behind it in the US to get aging males to test testo levels and buy the stuff $$$). Now it probably is useful for some, but jumping to broad conclusions when it’s clearly a cultural thing in Taiwan…don’t do it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

No, you are. Unless you’re an actual endocrinologist your knowledge is insignificant compared to mine. Also what you have written about ratios etc is offtopic since not only is it completely basic and common knowledge but also taken into consideration in all studies.

The hair and/or lack of it as well as mental states is directly linked to their hormones. It is not a coincidence that low dht always results in certain mental dispositions, lack of hair, and child appearance. As well as other things. Read studies which show what happens when you administer DHT compounds. Then read the studies in people with naturally low DHT.[/quote]

Also its not a coincidence that it is very difficult for them to build muscle yet much easier in general for black people who in general have higher DHT levels. Do me a favor, inject DHT for a while and observe your transformation into a man with very very different mental states ie. masculine mental states, very different body full of hair that resembles a man, transformation into a male voice, widening of the jaw, and so on. Then come back and state that “very little is understood”. The specifics of most things in the body is little understood. But we are not speaking about them. We are talking about very well known things which millions of people on DHT compounds have directly observed.

DHT is THE sex hormone. Low levels will result in corresponding sexual behavior, sexual function, sexual traits.

[quote=“triceratopses”]Also its not a coincidence that it is very difficult for them to build muscle yet much easier in general for black people who in general have higher DHT levels. Do me a favor, inject DHT for a while and observe your transformation into a man with very very different mental states ie. masculine mental states, very different body full of hair that resembles a man, transformation into a male voice, widening of the jaw, and so on. Then come back and state that “very little is understood”. The specifics of most things in the body is little understood. But we are not speaking about them. We are talking about very well known things which millions of people on DHT compounds have directly observed.

DHT is THE sex hormone. Low levels will result in corresponding sexual behavior, sexual function, sexual traits.[/quote]

Yes, testosterone can alter physical appearances. It’s what makes male orangutans to grow those facial flanges.

However, Asia is the place with the most population throughout most of history, even though as you claimed Asians lack THE sex hormone, which should mean reduced sexual function. It would appear that DHT levels has very little to do with the success of having children or raising a family. Unless it’s abundance/deficiency is causing medical issues, having more of it or less of it is neither positive or negative, and certainly has little to do with someone saying ILY after having sex.

[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“triceratopses”]Also its not a coincidence that it is very difficult for them to build muscle yet much easier in general for black people who in general have higher DHT levels. Do me a favor, inject DHT for a while and observe your transformation into a man with very very different mental states ie. masculine mental states, very different body full of hair that resembles a man, transformation into a male voice, widening of the jaw, and so on. Then come back and state that “very little is understood”. The specifics of most things in the body is little understood. But we are not speaking about them. We are talking about very well known things which millions of people on DHT compounds have directly observed.

DHT is THE sex hormone. Low levels will result in corresponding sexual behavior, sexual function, sexual traits.[/quote]

Yes, testosterone can alter physical appearances. It’s what makes male orangutans to grow those facial flanges.

However, Asia is the place with the most population throughout most of history, even though as you claimed Asians lack THE sex hormone, which should mean reduced sexual function. It would appear that DHT levels has very little to do with the success of having children or raising a family. Unless it’s abundance/deficiency is causing medical issues, having more of it or less of it is neither positive or negative, and certainly has little to do with someone saying ILY after having sex.[/quote]

Certainly its neither “positive or negative”, such terms don’t mean anything since only the chemical presence is necessary for fathering children. Likewise “reduced sexual function” does not mean much unless you define it. Less libido? Less masculine features everywhere in the body? If we define it that way then yes, lower DHT results in less of these functions. Is lesser function “negative or positive”? Depends how you define it.

Testosterone plummets in monogamous men who marry and father children, and increases significantly in men with multiple partners. Which is positive and which is negative?

However to state that DHT or testosterone in general has no direct impact on mental states is simple ignorance. As I said, inject a DHT compound and directly observe your mental characteristics change, drastically. It’s very very common that people who have no mental training in concentration, introspection, mindfulness, etc, and who are therefore more easily driven by emotions will lose more control over their aggression in particular.

triceratopses: HH2 was pointing out it may be somewhat more complicated than that. He is (AFAIK) a biochemist. Yes, your hormones influence your behaviour and mental state, but I doubt it has much to do with blurting out ILY after a shag.

I notice there are plenty of hairless-as-other-Taiwanese men at the gym who are nevertheless a lot more buff than most hormonally-gifted(?) Westerners, which suggests the body hair thing is simply a genetic variation, not a hormonal deficiency.

Personally I think it’s disgraceful that doctors talk in apocalyptic tones about steroid abuse and then hand out testosterone patches like M&Ms as a cure for the mid-life crisis. Bodybuilders, broadly speaking, treat these drugs with a certain amount of respect - they take them for a short period of time (3-4 weeks) and then stop, sometimes using clomiphene (or similar) to block estrogenic metabolites and jumpstart natural hormone production afterwards. Any exogenous androgenic hormone, taken for a long period in high doses, will switch off or depress your body’s own production of its own hormones, making you dependent on the drug, so long-term hormone “replacement” therapy for men whose bodies are basically OK is a really, really bad idea. It would be far more productive to tell them to stop eating junk food and get their lazy asses off to the gym. Of course there are men who genuinely have some physical disease resulting in abnormally low testosterone, but the majority of those prescribed testosterone “replacement” (and viagra/cialis, for that matter) are just looking for some socially-acceptable uppers. Oh, I’m not juicing. I’m on HRT. :unamused:

[quote=“triceratopses”][quote=“triceratopses”][quote=“headhonchoII”][He’s talking rubbish, take it from somebody who is actually involved in the clinical side of this. Hormones and testing of such is a very finicky and little understood area of medicine. You need to relate ratios of hormones ,check for cross reactivity, check against age, sex and myriad other things…and even then there is not consensus on some basic matters such as testosterone replacement therapy (which has a huge marketing push behind it in the US to get aging males to test testo levels and buy the stuff $$$). Now it probably is useful for some, but jumping to broad conclusions when it’s clearly a cultural thing in Taiwan…don’t do it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

No, you are. Unless you’re an actual endocrinologist your knowledge is insignificant compared to mine. Also what you have written about ratios etc is offtopic since not only is it completely basic and common knowledge but also taken into consideration in all studies.

The hair and/or lack of it as well as mental states is directly linked to their hormones. It is not a coincidence that low dht always results in certain mental dispositions, lack of hair, and child appearance. As well as other things. Read studies which show what happens when you administer DHT compounds. Then read the studies in people with naturally low DHT.[/quote]

Also its not a coincidence that it is very difficult for them to build muscle yet much easier in general for black people who in general have higher DHT levels. Do me a favor, inject DHT for a while and observe your transformation into a man with very very different mental states ie. masculine mental states, very different body full of hair that resembles a man, transformation into a male voice, widening of the jaw, and so on. Then come back and state that “very little is understood”. The specifics of most things in the body is little understood. But we are not speaking about them. We are talking about very well known things which millions of people on DHT compounds have directly observed.

DHT is THE sex hormone. Low levels will result in corresponding sexual behavior, sexual function, sexual traits.[/quote]

I’m already a man, I don’t need to inject myself to be more a man, lol.

There is no one sex hormone, it’s a complex mixture of molecules called the steroid hormones that share precursors and they link into all types of processes in the body. DHT is only one metabolite of dozens. Historically it was almost impossible to measure hormone levels accurately or specifically, it’s getting better now, but we still find it very challenging to measure the hormones at low levels even though they could be doing things that are clinically significant. Certainly if you take testosterone you might get bigger muscles or grow more hair (no thanks), but what other impact may this have? It’s a risk.

Take vitamin D as an example of the supplementation industry. It has been linked to hundreds of chronic diseases, but there is no consensus as to what is the right dosage! Also all the supplements for vitamin D are D2, made from yeast and synthetically, while it is D3 which is the one that is actually useful for us and that is made from sunlight exposure on our skin. People have been throwing billions of dollars down the drain because yes, this is tricky and hard to measure stuff and there is a lot of money to be made by pushing pills at people!

Don’t even get me started on pain management and anti anxiety medication.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s a lot of scientific mumbo jumbo for explaining the simplicity of why slightly more immature people who have been conditioned to say what they think most woman want to hear, actually saying what most woman want to hear. :whistle:

Finley his reasoning is that it’s wrong because it’s not well understood. However it is very well understood that higher DHT changes one’s reaction to sex and intimacy in males and females. Lower a man’s DHT levels and his reaction to sex and intimacy will be meeker and less aggressive, he will easily fall in love or deep attachment after basic sex. Raise it and he will become more dominant and not ever think to say ILY or himself fall in love or deep attachment simply due to sex. Raise a girl’s DHT levels and I won’t tell you what happens or how to do it properly unless you pay me. I know how to do it with 0 side effects, which is precious knowledge. Suffice to say their mental states regarding these things changed greatly.

That’s all offtopic stuff headhoncho. Noone said DHT is the only male sex hormone, what everyone knows however is that it is the primary male sex hormone. Case in point, if you had high testosterone as well as free testosterone circling, perfect e2 levels, but very low DHT levels, you would have severely impaired sexual function. This is why people on DHT blockers experience sometimes permanent erectile dysfunction even once they cease usage of the blockers, and very commonly experience temporary dysfunction while taking it.

Asians have lower DHT levels and smaller testicle size (and smaller other things). They are more feminine and childish in appearance. They build muscle more slowly. If someone thinks this does not have a direct impact on their actions and mental states, including how they react to sex and intimacy, go ahead but it would be a mistake. OP will continue to wonder why her tinder experiences with random men randomly saying ILY is unique to exactly those with low DHT.

That’s not exactly what ladies on tinder want to hear. You’re also assuming that all of them are trying to be manipulative, intending to say it just because she wants to hear it. No.

How about, rather than saying something that most would interpret as offensive about all men in Taiwan (which is the country you are a guest in) you simply describe the characteristics you are talking about. Calling a man feminine is pretty offensive, and calling an adult childish is very offensive.

To me, Taiwanese men look neither childish nor feminine.

He is also conflating ‘looks’ with ‘being a man’. Hence the aforementioned problems in chatting chicks up!

Also won’t supplementing with DHT make your hair fall out faster? going for the Vin Diesel look then :slight_smile:

Until somebody publishes some research linking ‘I love you’ with hormone levels and using proper controls for cultural input, we just can’t take your statements seriously. Are you then saying that ABCs also go around saying ‘ILY’ on the first date, because I don’t think that’s the case in general.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thread quickly veering off topic, but I’m sure you have statistics to back all of that up right?

So a poster with a fake name on a chat forum on the internet says mean things about Taiwanese men, and that’s supposed to mean something? There are many western woman that find asian men very attractive, masculine, and mature.

You mean woman don’t tend to want to approach guys who give off vibes that they detest the people here?

That would make great cocktail-party conversation wouldn’t it?
“So, what are you working on at the moment, Professor Humpington-Smythe?”.
“Well, at the moment we have the most fascinating research project. I frequent men’s locker rooms, measuring testicles.”

How about, rather than saying something that most would interpret as offensive about all men in Taiwan (which is the country you are a guest in) you simply describe the characteristics you are talking about. Calling a man feminine is pretty offensive, and calling an adult childish is very offensive.

To me, Taiwanese men look neither childish nor feminine.[/quote]

Did you ever notice how everywhere in the world women generally have less body hair than males? These are feminine vs masculine vs childish traits.

Lack of body and facial hair is due to low binding affinity to androgen receptors, and lower dht. Such are females and children. Large amount of body and facial hair is due to a high binding affinity, and higher dht. Those are called males.

Hence, masculine, feminine, and childlike traits. Many asian men possess feminine and childlike traits which others races do not and previous humanoids did not.

This is where hh2 would come and state some clueless offtopic thing such as that dht is not the ONLY thing responsible, other things like testosterone are also responsible. Some truly valuable information that noone knew.

Also Neoteny

[quote=“BrentGolf”]Thread quickly veering off topic, but I’m sure you have statistics to back all of that up right?

The data is there. Who said anything about attractive or not attractive?

Yep if their dht:test ratios are the same they are prone to that type of mental disposition. It’s the same as saying, many asians including abc have a hard time building muscle, are physically weaker, and don’t have much body + facial hair.

Hormones have a direct impact on mental states. Weren’t some of you saying precisely that in the guy trying to deal with his pregnant wife thread? The specifics of how it operates is rocket science, the general function is not and is well understood. Sex hormones directly impact your experience and the way you relate to sex and intimacy. Your personality can radically change just by changing a few things. Someone with high dht will NOT be saying ILY to a tinder girl. Low dht people WILL.

Both conclusion are wrong assumptions. Rather than me boasting about how many girls i’ve put onto dht protocols, i’ll just ask you to post a pic since you feel like trashing me numbnuts :slight_smile:

Interesting discussions here about behavior and hormones. Also I really like what NonTocareLaTete brought to the table.

As for this guy, I swiftly told him not to say that, and then we should get to know each other more first. That said, I do actually like him and am going to keep him around. Thankfully he lives kind of far away and is busy with school, so his ability to get stalkerish is somewhat curtailed. He is very polite and eager to do boyfriend-like things for me, which is sweet but he also seems to get it when I say let’s take it one step at a time.

As for the hormone discussion I’ll say this: he is plenty virile and masculine. Although somewhat short and not hairy, he is really strong and well-built and seems to grow facial hair better than most. Definitely not a girly K-pop idol or gaming nerd type. Based on his ‘performance’ and all the above I wouldn’t assume he’s low on T, but then I’m no endocrinologist. The hormone argument at first seems compelling (when comparing Asian vs. Western phenotypes) but doesn’t really hold up to my experience. I’ve been with enough virile Midde-Eastern and Latinos who similarly dropped the L-bomb on me.

I would probably veer toward assuming it’s both inexperience (at 21 he’s about a decade younger than me) and cultural differences. Or… maybe I’m just really awesome?

so you are well aware of the age and culture difference but still feel the need to call him words like stalkerish ? i would say you were the one with the problem not him if you keep that sort of thing up.

Back to the original topic, I told my Taiwanese sisters in law about this thread, and they agreed (with each other) that Taiwan girls take a long time to say “I love you” because of shyness / embarrassment. (The same reason I avoid wearing speedos!)

By total coincidence, my wife sang a love song to me yesterday!

Mm yea I never called him stalkerish, at all. If you read what I wrote is that his “ability” to become stalkerish is limited by location and other responsibilties. Panties in a bunch?

Also, whether their is a cultural tendeny for these things to happen does not mean that sort of behavior is perfectly acceptable here. It’s not “normal”, its just not unheard of.

Lros, unfortunately, the kind of over attachment bordering on the stalkerish is something most of us women have experienced, and in CCRs is more difficult to handle -mostly, again, due to the maturity/cultural problems. How can she explain this concept otherwise? Fizzy already mentioned she’s had a bad experience of this sort before, so she’s wary about that, as most of us women would be. I You guys have stated openly that you fear the PXJs, we have terror of encountering the male equivalent. Thus, the initial problem of someone saying ILY too easily. It is like the bells of “oh, oh”.