Taiwanese Politics & Uncertainty - Bad time to move there?

What do you guys think about the movement to depose the president? Agree, disagree? Most of my Taiwanese friends in the U.S. seem to be supportive but to me it seems to be pretty undemocratic. Things seem so unstable and messy with the country now. Is now not the right time to move there?

also what do you think of all the charges against president chen sui-bian and the first lady? most Taiwanese I know seem to think president chen sui-bian faked his own assassination attempt; stole money from the government via some special funds account; his wife stole coupons from department stores and tried to influence the sale of that store; and his in-laws made profits with insider trading. all this even tho some accusations were never proven and some are still being investigated.

No, never move here. Stay with your Taiwanese friends over there.

It’s democracy at it’s best. Whats a democracy without a bit of scandal. Clinton had his. Where’s there’s smoke there’s fire… except in Clintons case.

yeah, paid a sharpshooter to fire a pistol from an alleyway behind a crowd while Chen was moving in a jeep;…with special instructions to only graze his abdomen. Now that’s some shooting!

yeah, paid a sharpshooter to fire a pistol from an alleyway behind a crowd while Chen was moving in a jeep;…with special instructions to only graze his abdomen. Now that’s some shooting![/quote]

actually, they believed that he injured himself on purpose first, then hid a bullet in his pants. they were also suspicious that he didnt go to the nearest hospital and instead drove to one further away. all this even tho famed american criminologist henry lee flew over there and disputed all these theories.

I wouldn’t worry about Taiwan’s internal problems if I were you, well not when you also need to consider the possibility of an invasion by the PRC. That’s a real doozy. You do get used to the thought of it, but it is always sitting there at the back of your mind. In time you’ll start to rate your mates by what they’d do.

HG

He drove to the hospital that was easiest to reach in the fastest time. He was shot on Junghua West Road and his driver drove in a straight line to the hospital on Junghua North Road. Another hospital may have been a little bit technically closer as the crow flies, but cars are not crows and the driver would have had to zig-zag through several turns along several streets through heavy traffic. I live in Tainan and know the geography of the streets well.

[quote=“Quentin”]He drove to the hospital that was easiest to reach in the fastest time. He was shot on Zhonghua West Road and his driver drove in a straight line to the hospital on Zhonghua North Road. Another hospital may have been a little bit technically closer as the crow flies, but cars are not crows and the driver would have had to zig-zag through several turns along several streets through heavy traffic. I live in Tainan and know the geography of the streets well.[/quote]Quentin -
Damn You! No drinks for You!
Bringing facts into the “SHOOTING!” incident…

At least you didn’t mention the hands-over-the-heads victory dance A-Bian did as he stopped and turned to his crowd before he entered the ‘Emergency Room.’
:flog:

I wouldn’t worry about the protest movement too much. Most of Taiwan is getting on with their lives as usual. Thing are stable. Don’t believe the hype.

yeah, paid a sharpshooter to fire a pistol from an alleyway behind a crowd while Chen was moving in a jeep;…with special instructions to only graze his abdomen. Now that’s some shooting![/quote]

actually, they believed that he injured himself on purpose first, then hid a bullet in his pants. they were also suspicious that he didnt go to the nearest hospital and instead drove to one further away. all this even tho famed american criminologist henry lee flew over there and disputed all these theories.[/quote]
So, you spend your time with pan-blue apologist halfwits, then. You should spend some time with some rabid TI pro-Chen halfwits to get a proper mishmash of half-baked theories and conspiracy wingnut crapola – you only have the blue half of the mishmash of half-baked theories and conspiracy wingnut crapola at the moment.

Whatever you do, avoid anyone who seeks to put forward a balanced, objective viewpoint, taking into account the actual facts – it’ll only confuse you.

The reason why it might be a bad time to move to Taiwan is not because of the current political impasse, but because the economy is weak and salaries for many jobs have hardly improved in the last decade - in fact in many cases they have fallen. The political crisis will be resolved within a few months when Chen Shuibian is, by hook or by crook, removed from office*. When the economy will look up is, however, anybody’s guess.

*My personal prediction - you can take it or leave it.

Average salaries in Taiwan are comparable with HK, which are some of the highest in Asia. The cost of living here is however much lower than HK.

The fact that we are no longer seeing 9% p.a. growth rates does not put the country(territory?) in a slump.

Foreign teachers’ salaries haven’t changed in 10 years but they were probably too high then and many would say still are now.

Now is not a bad time to come to Taiwan, but I would question why Taiwan? There is nothing here that you cannot find elsewhere in Asia. Stay away…unless you are sure of your reasons. many posters find it tough here, there are easier places, like HK and Singapore.

is the economy really performing that badly? it’s been growing 4-5% past few years. and unemployment is low at around 4%; cpi and inflation is stable.

I read this in The Peking Duck blog:

http://www.pekingduck.org/archives/004169.php

The Taiwan Malaise

Time is short so I have to be brief. I just got back from an event sponsored by the Economist at which two excellent speakers discussed Taiwan’s macroeconomic situation, and then related it to more personal issues, such as how the Taiwanese see their futures, how they save their money and how they look at China. What came out of this discussion and the following Q & A was familiar to anyone who’s attended all the American Chamber of Commerce luncheons that I have: Taiwan is in the grip of a spiritual depression, mainly due to its inferiority complex which in turn is due to the long dark shadow Mainland China casts on all of its neighbors.

Again, this is old news. Plenty of people in Hong Kong and Singapore will tell you the same thing. What I got out of today’s session was the realization that much of this malaise might be part of a self-fulfilling prophesy, namely the stubborn belief that Taiwan is doomed to slow down and become irrelevant as China grows. Now, there’s plenty of evidence to show that this is partly true, but also plenty of counter-evidence to show the situation is not nearly so dire as those on the street believe. Taiwan’s forex reserves are the third or fourth highest in Asia (depending what week you look); it’s one of the world’s leaders in foreign investment; the wealth here is nothing to sneer at; and despite all the doom and gloom, Taiwan’s GDP has been growing at a respectable 4.1 percent a year. Not orgasm-inducing numbers, but nothing to weep over, either.

And yet, talk to anyone here and there is a tone of resignation and reticence. Taiwan’s glory days are over. The only place to be is China. Taiwan’s markets can only contract, including its job market. And yet, even in the face of downsizing and all kinds of pressures brought on by increased globalization, most of the multinationals here are doing quite well. No, not as spectacularly as some are doing in the PRC, but not so poorly as to merit swallowing the hemlock. This is still an exceptionally vibrant economy, unvexed by inflation or rampant corruption. (No, I’m not saying there’s no corruption in the government, only that the corruption that there is doesn’t drasticaly affect people’s lives and pocketbooks as in places like China and Indonesia and the Philippines.)

One of the speakers said a lot of the misery is caused by today’s political mess, and that nearly everyone agrees that 2008 will be “the magical year” when optimism once again surges in Taiwan. And he might be right; the animosity toward Chen in particular and politicians in general right now is so ripe you can smell it. If that’s what will make the diference, then I hope 2008 comes as fast as possible (especially since that’s the year Bush, too, gets the heave-ho).

It’s just too bad that so manyTaiwanese today see only bleakness in the cards, and that, at least according to one speaker, they then use this bleakness to feed a self-fulfilling prophesy of failure. They presume they cannot soar, so they don’t aim high. They presume they can’t have more so they settle for less. They presume the future is a closed book so they cancel their dreams. It’s a sad phenomenon, since the numbers simply do not support such melancholy. Let’s hope the malaise is as temporary as possible, because it’s nothing less than a cancer that creates a chain-reaction of doubt, insecurity and impotency. The malaise is real, even if its cause is not. If the solution is a new leader who can inspire the people and lift them up, I welcome him or her with open arms, no matter which party they belong to.

Michael Turton, whose blog I always read http://michaelturton.blogspot.com/ and who seems like an intelligent person with years of experience in Taiwan and whose posts dont seem that cynical (for a foreigner), follows up with: “Hell yes. I often encounter this among locals. Taiwan is doing very well. Many visitors enjoy it and stay. Almost every aspect of Taiwanese life is improving.”

[quote=“Edgar Allen”]
Now is not a bad time to come to Taiwan, but I would question why Taiwan? There is nothing here that you cannot find elsewhere in Asia. Stay away…unless you are sure of your reasons. many posters find it tough here, there are easier places, like HK and Singapore.[/quote]

Well one important reason why I want to come to Taiwan is to learn Mandarin so I can do business in the region. Among greater china countries, I think Taiwan is the best place to learn it. In Hong Kong they speak predominantly cantonese. In Singapore, they speak mandarin with a weird accent; plus, they use the simplified chinese system. I’d rather learn traditional chinese. Both cities are too small, crowded and expensive for my comfort. I found Taiwan to be more spacious and affordable. And I like the freedom of living in a democratic society with an unrestricted media and press. Singapore, although clean and modern, has got too many rules to make it suffocating to live in. And dont even mention China. I have no desire to live there at all. And they also use a simplified writing system.

oh one more thing: although i know english is not widely used in taiwan which makes it more difficult and challenging to live in, to me that is good because it will only make me try to learn mandarin harder and faster. in hong kong and singapore i will probably just slack off alot and use english all the time.

I think you are making a great choice in coming to Taiwan. You should be aware that many people in China look down on the Taiwan accent as well.

Worse than that, they think it sounds poofy for blokes.

HG

well from what i understand, there’s native taiwanese like a-bian from central and south taiwan with their thick taiwanese accent. then there’s mainlanders - wei sen ren - and their offspring who reside in the north and who still speak like those from mainland. i suppose ideally i’d prefer the latter. just so long as it’s not a beijing accent with the exaggerated ‘s’ ‘r’ sounds. i cant stand those - they sound so commie.

well from what i understand, there’s native Taiwanese like a-bian from central and south taiwan with their thick Taiwanese accent. then there’s mainlanders - wei sen ren - and their offspring who reside in the north and who still speak like those from mainland. i suppose ideally i’d prefer the latter. just so long as it’s not a beijing accent with the exaggerated ‘s’ ‘r’ sounds. i cant stand those - they sound so commie.[/quote]

No… That is spectacularly over-simplified.

Like buttercup says, the situation is far more complex than that. Most educated people now speak a standard form of Mandarin. You can’t tell what their ethnic background is in most cases. Mainland Chinese will immediately identify your accent as Taiwanese when you speak the standard version of Taiwanese Mandarin.

[quote=“thyrdrail”]
Well one important reason why I want to come to Taiwan is to learn Mandarin so I can do business in the region. … I’d rather learn traditional chinese. …

just so long as it’s not a beijing accent with the exaggerated ‘s’ ‘r’ sounds. i cant stand those - they sound so commie.[/quote]
I question your dedication to doing business in region if the two above comments represent your opinions on this issue.

And yes, Taiwanese-accented Mandarin is very distinctive. The most WS of the WSR are still very standard, but they’re in the far minority. But I don’t see that as really being an issue. For a laowai learning the language, you’d have to put in years and years of very hard work before anyone would be able to tell your Mandarin is “Taiwanese-accented”.

Unless you speak in slangs or deliberately use the terms or inflections only used on Taiwan, I don’t think many people will be able to figure out where you are from. Most Mainlanders will just think you learned your mandarin from some southern region in China.

Unless you go to the Southern Taiwan and learn Minnan accented mandarin…

Also unless you’re a professional speech coach and know how to emulate regional accents, cctang is right, your audience first reaction will probably be “not native speaker” and not “oh they’re speaking the democratic version of mandarin”