Teaching English in Kindergartens

[itakitez]

@CraigTPE

[quote=“steelersman”][quote]Don’t teach any Kindy classes. Period. Doesn’t matter if it’s an exclusively Kindy Cram school or otherwise.

Well if you work at Hess’s kindergarten you really don’t have to worry.

Not to mention that the job Craig is talking about is also technically illegal and if caught you would be deported as well.

Foreigners on an ARC cannot legally work in a high school without a teacher’s crudential from their home country.[/quote]
Why wouldn’t one have to worry working in a Hess Kindy?

And you are right, teaching at a private school via the method I described is technically also illegal. However, have you ever heard of anyone having a problem with it? I never have, not even one single incidence, nor has anyone else I know. It’s very common and has been going on for years (decades?). The only reason I know of why private schools turn either to APRC/JFRV open-work-permit holders or to places like TLI is because that way they don’t have to process the paperwork for a work permit, which as you accurately point out would require teaching crudentials [sic].

Additionally, according to the letter of the law, you are only supposed to work at the address on your ARC. That doesn’t stop TLI, or any number of other institutions, sending trainers/teachers to schools and businesses to conduct classes. Interestingly, one of TLI’s customers for this service is the Taipei City government.

Cram schools are on the NIA’s hit list, not private schools.[/quote]

err look up info about foresight english - they also did this and said it was safe in TPE county, but the manager had a row with his girlfriend who proceeded to report all the teachers and schools to FAP and about 11 people got deported (knew one of them). The manager lasted another year or two before getting deported as well

…

[paulcarr]

@CraigTPE

[quote=“steelersman”][quote]Don’t teach any Kindy classes. Period. Doesn’t matter if it’s an exclusively Kindy Cram school or otherwise.

Well if you work at Hess’s kindergarten you really don’t have to worry.

Not to mention that the job Craig is talking about is also technically illegal and if caught you would be deported as well.

Foreigners on an ARC cannot legally work in a high school without a teacher’s crudential from their home country.[/quote]
Why wouldn’t one have to worry working in a Hess Kindy?

And you are right, teaching at a private school via the method I described is technically also illegal. However, have you ever heard of anyone having a problem with it? I never have, not even one single incidence, nor has anyone else I know. It’s very common and has been going on for years (decades?). The only reason I know of why private schools turn either to APRC/JFRV open-work-permit holders or to places like TLI is because that way they don’t have to process the paperwork for a work permit, which as you accurately point out would require teaching crudentials [sic].

Additionally, according to the letter of the law, you are only supposed to work at the address on your ARC. That doesn’t stop TLI, or any number of other institutions, sending trainers/teachers to schools and businesses to conduct classes. Interestingly, one of TLI’s customers for this service is the Taipei City government.

Cram schools are on the NIA’s hit list, not private schools.[/quote]

So, if I’m reading you correctly, the way TLI operate is, strictly speaking, illegal. They farm out teachers to clients, that is, private schools. These private elementary and private junior and high schools don’t process work permits which, strictly speaking, they’re supposed to do. By Taiwan law, a foreign teacher is supposed to get a work permit for every different place he/she works in. I read on another forumosa thread that if a foreign teacher, for example, wants to apply for an APRC, permanent residence in Taiwan, after living in Taiwan for 5 years, the fact that he worked for a school for which he didn’t hold a work permit would be held against him and his application would be refused. So, I think I’ll give TLI a pass. I prefer to find an unambiguously legal job.

Also, if I’m reading you and steelersman correctly, private elementary and private junior and senior high schools (in addition to public elementary and pubic junior and senior high schools) are, strictly speaking, off-limits to me because I don’t have teaching credentials from my home country or a teaching diploma. I just have a TEFL certificate and university degree.

[paulcarr]

@CraigTPE

[quote=“paulcarr”]As opposed to public elementary, junior and senior high schools?

Correct. Private schools are very common here. In general, private elementary and junior highs are considered better prep for the high school entrance exam.[/quote]

You mean senior high school entrance exam? Students take this exam around the age of 15 or so?

Public education here is only guaranteed through junior high. To get into a public high school, you have to pass a test. Private high schools are generally considered lower quality than public as this is where all the kids go who couldn’t test highly enough to get into public high school.

So, if I’m reading you correctly, in Taiwan, private elementary and private junior high schools are better quality than public elementary and public junior high schools but, on the other hand, public senior high schools are higher quality than private senior high schools.

Same is true of public vs private universities here. (Of course with all the usual exceptions.)

What are the usual exceptions?

Many private schools get native English speaking teachers as additional marketing tools (in my opinion).

For the private elementary and private junior high schools but maybe not for the private senior high school?

[paulcarr]

As written already, my understanding of the stages one undertakes to get a job in Taiwan are first get the work permit, then get a residence visa and finally get the ARC. However, a guy told me the other day that I don’t need a residence visa at all. He said a residence visa was only for those who want to live in Taiwan long-term or are permanent residents. He said it was just a 2 stage process; first, get the work permit and then get the ARC. He said the most important document was the work permit. Once I have that, I can start working whilst still waiting for the ARC.

[BigJohn]

Yes, that’s right. Once you have your work permit from the Council of Labor Affairs you cannot be prosecuted for working in a licensed buxiban.

Look, overall the safest way is to get a job with a licensed buxiban like Hess, Shane or KOJEN. Then, you can meet people, get the lay of the land, and figure out your next step. Chain schools that are centrally owned are more consistent than franchises. Don’t do kindy or private schools. The pay better for a reason: danger money.

At a licensed buxiban, not teaching kindy, your only exposure is the few weeks between signing a contract and getting the work permit. The school might pressure you to work before the permit arrives. Usually, you will not be prosecuted if caught working at a legit buxiban if your work permit application is in, but it could happen. You might want to hold out.

Another thing to watch out for is that sometimes buxibans will have a regulatory quota of foreign teachers at a branch of their school but still want more. They then could get you an ARC and work permit listing you as working somewhere else. Then, if there is a raid you could still get dinged for working there.

[sandman]

However, a guy told me the other day that I don’t need a residence visa at all. He said a residence visa was only for those who want to live in Taiwan long-term or are permanent residents. He said it was just a 2 stage process; first, get the work permit and then get the ARC.

He be wrong. In order to reside, you need a resident visa. Without a resident visa you can’t have either a work permit or an ARC.

[steelersman]

[quote]
Also, if I’m reading you and steelersman correctly, private elementary and private junior and senior high schools (in addition to public elementary and pubic junior and senior high schools) are, strictly speaking, off-limits to me because I don’t have teaching credentials from my home country or a teaching diploma. I just have a TEFL certificate and university degree.[/quote]

You need a teacher’s license to work in any high school in Taiwan. Interestingly enough just a B.A. degree is good enough for Taiwanese to work in private high schools. I know Taiwanese who work in private high schools without a teacher’s license. I wonder what the logic is behind that law.

Actually not allowing foreigners to teach English in kindergartens seems like a way to preserve jobs for Taiwanese. The law may have nothing to do with the Chinese ability of children being effected from learning English at a young age.

[steelersman]

[quote]Yes, that’s right. Once you have your work permit from the Council of Labor Affairs you cannot be prosecuted for working in a licensed buxiban.

Look, overall the safest way is to get a job with a licensed buxiban like Hess, Shane or KOJEN. Then, you can meet people, get the lay of the land, and figure out your next step. Chain schools that are centrally owned are more consistent than franchises. Don’t do kindy or private schools. The pay better for a reason: danger money.[/quote]

Except schools like HESS employ foreigners in their kindergartens. I doubt that they tell their teachers that the job is technically illegal. But large schools like HESS and Happy Marian have informants and the schools seem to always know when the police are coming to do a check. On that day teachers stay at home or stay in the buxiban section of the school.

[zyzzx]

@sandman

[quote]However, a guy told me the other day that I don’t need a residence visa at all. He said a residence visa was only for those who want to live in Taiwan long-term or are permanent residents. He said it was just a 2 stage process; first, get the work permit and then get the ARC.

He be wrong. In order to reside, you need a resident visa. Without a resident visa you can’t have either a work permit or an ARC.[/quote]
Not anymore, they have streamlined the process. I have both work permit and ARC and have never had a residence visa.

[sandman]

@zyzzx

[quote=“sandman”][quote]However, a guy told me the other day that I don’t need a residence visa at all. He said a residence visa was only for those who want to live in Taiwan long-term or are permanent residents. He said it was just a 2 stage process; first, get the work permit and then get the ARC.

He be wrong. In order to reside, you need a resident visa. Without a resident visa you can’t have either a work permit or an ARC.[/quote]
Not anymore, they have streamlined the process. I have both work permit and ARC and have never had a residence visa.[/quote]
Visa-free entry I’ve heard of, although its not entirely correct – you get a landing visa, so its still a visa.
But visa-free RESIDENCE? When did they start that?

[CraigTPE]

@zyzzx

Not anymore, they have streamlined the process. I have both work permit and ARC and have never had a residence visa.

So what kind of visa do you have? When did you process this? I did this process 4 years ago, so very possibly (likely?) changed.

[Yazzy]

@CraigTPE

[quote=“zyzzx”]Not anymore, they have streamlined the process. I have both work permit and ARC and have never had a residence visa.

So what kind of visa do you have? When did you process this? I did this process 4 years ago, so very possibly (likely?) changed.[/quote]

Yes, it is possible to have a work permit and ARC without a resident visa. Found this out just over 2 weeks ago.

I flew in on my landing visa, and got my work permit approved. Went to the immigration near Shandao Temple MRT and applied for my visa. The lady said it was no longer necessary for a resident visa to obtain ARC. She also confirmed that it is possible to convert my landing visa to visitor without having to leave the country.

Took about 4 business days to get my visitor visa, and then immediately went to apply for my ARC. My card just arrived yesterday…woot!

[zyzzx]

@CraigTPE

[quote=“zyzzx”]Not anymore, they have streamlined the process. I have both work permit and ARC and have never had a residence visa.

So what kind of visa do you have? When did you process this? I did this process 4 years ago, so very possibly (likely?) changed.[/quote]
I did it a year and a half ago, came in on a visitor visa and went straight to the ARC. I’d heard the landing visa thing that Yazzy did was possible as well, nice to see it confirmed. I think that they changed things in August 2008 (at least that’s what my colleague told me that the immigration people told him). Makes sense, what was the point of the residence visa anyway?

[spaint]

[quote=“zyzzx”]
I did it a year and a half ago, came in on a visitor visa and went straight to the ARC. I’d heard the landing visa thing that Yazzy did was possible as well, nice to see it confirmed. I think that they changed things in August 2008 (at least that’s what my colleague told me that the immigration people told him). Makes sense, what was the point of the residence visa anyway?[/quote]

To screw you out of more money when you had to apply for it?

Years back, when I made the decision to come back to Taiwan for good with my then wife, I was unable to apply for a resident visa from Canada. I had to get a visitor visa, then when I had arrived in Taiwan I had to change it to a resident visa.

It was a complete pain in the ass too, because the people at the visa processing office wanted proof from my home country (the UK) of marriage registration. I kept explaining that a). I left the UK when I was 16, b). The UK doesn’t have a registration system for foreign marriages and c). I got married in Taiwan so what’s wrong with the Taiwanese documents?

[paulcarr]

@BigJohn

Yes, that’s right. Once you have your work permit from the Council of Labor Affairs you cannot be prosecuted for working in a licensed buxiban.

To be clear, a buxiban is a place all kids who have completed first grade of elementary school go after classes finish at their day time school? An ancinban is a place kids go after classes are finished at kindergarten and first grade of elementary school? My understanding is that teaching in a kindergarten in illegal but teaching in an ancinban is not. However, this state-of-affairs may not be lasting much longer. Steelersman mentioned that there is a new law in the works that would make it illegal to teach kids under 6 in any setting, ancinban or kindergarten. Have I hit the nail on the head here?

[paulcarr]

[quote=“steelersman”][quote]
Also, if I’m reading you and steelersman correctly, private elementary and private junior and senior high schools (in addition to public elementary and pubic junior and senior high schools) are, strictly speaking, off-limits to me because I don’t have teaching credentials from my home country or a teaching diploma. I just have a TEFL certificate and university degree.[/quote]

You need a teacher’s license to work in any high school in Taiwan.[/quote]

Also any elementary school?

[paulcarr]

@BigJohn

Look, overall the safest way is to get a job with a licensed buxiban like Hess, Shane or KOJEN. Then, you can meet people, get the lay of the land, and figure out your next step. Chain schools that are centrally owned are more consistent than franchises. Don’t do kindy or private schools. The pay better for a reason: danger money.

I’d prefer to teach adults. Most of my 5 and a half years’ experience teaching English as a Foreign Language has been teaching adults. Thing is, I’d rather not teach business English (not that I am unable to do it) and I’d rather not wear a suit and tie. I’d like to find a more relaxed and easy-going place (which is not fly-by-night or quasi-(il)legal). Perhaps, it is impossible to find such a balance in Taiwan? CraigTPE gave the address for Global Village before. Are there any other schools (outside of private and public universities) that teach adults in Taiwan that any of you know of? I’m happy to relocate anywhere in Taiwan by-the-way.

[bismarck]

@paulcarr

I’d prefer to teach adults. Most of my 5 and a half years’ experience teaching English as a Foreign Language has been teaching adults. Thing is, I’d rather not teach business English (not that I am unable to do it) and I’d rather not wear a suit and tie. I’d like to find a more relaxed and easy-going place (which is not fly-by-night or quasi-(il)legal). Perhaps, it is impossible to find such a balance in Taiwan? CraigTPE gave the address for Global Village before. Are there any other schools (outside of private and public universities) that teach adults in Taiwan that any of you know of? I’m happy to relocate anywhere in Taiwan by-the-way.

I work for Wells English. They’re pretty good, although they don’t offer ARCs (they’ll get a work permit for you though) and therefore prefer people on APRCs or JFRVs. But check them out, they have several branches up north and perhaps the guys in Taipei (where the head office is) will do something about the ARC thing.

[paulcarr]

[quote=“bismarck”]
I work for Wells English. They’re pretty good, although they don’t offer ARCs (they’ll get a work permit for you though) and therefore prefer people on APRCs or JFRVs. But check them out, they have several branches up north and perhaps the guys in Taipei (where the head office is) will do something about the ARC thing.[/quote]

Thanks, bismarck. I’ll check them out.

[Yazzy]

@bismarck

I work for Wells English. They’re pretty good, although they don’t offer ARCs (they’ll get a work permit for you though) and therefore prefer people on APRCs or JFRVs. But check them out, they have several branches up north and perhaps the guys in Taipei (where the head office is) will do something about the ARC thing.

I thought having a work permit entitles someone for an ARC? Or is there is some kind of minimum duration requirement for one (ie at least 6 month contract) ?