Teaching in Taiwan vs. teaching in China

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
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I’m a student in mainland China at the moment. I will be finished here in a matter of weeks, and will start teaching English. I’ve visited Taiwan before for a few weeks, and greatly prefer the environment Taiwan to where I am now.

That said, doing a bit of research into wages and taking into account differences in the cost of living, I’m starting to wonder whether it is such a good idea to consider teaching TEFL in Taiwan as supposed to in mainland China (14,000 RMB/month with accommodation paid will go very, very far anywhere here; the equivalent of even as much as $US2,000/month in Taiwan will not).

A quick glance at the kinds of jobs on offer here versus what is on offer over there in Taiwan shows a big difference. Taiwan seems to demand long hours, a preset and inflexible program, whereas many of the ads I see for jobs here on the mainland appear to offer what locally represents a very competitive salary for much shorter hours, many ads I’ve seen also go out of their way to say that you’re welcome to be flexible when it comes to teaching whatever you want, however you want - which naturally sounds much better.

It might well be the case that some if not many of these jobs will deliver less than what they claim to offer in terms of pay and conditions. And all other things being equal, I would rather move to Taiwan than stay here, for many reasons; but that said, I don’t know what it’s like to WORK there.

But I have a niggling feeling that if I go work in Taiwan as an English teacher (this would be my first foray into semi-professional employment), I will end up hating life in a crappy buxiban, spending most of my salary on accommodation and entertainment, and will start kicking myself for not taking a job here in the mainland, where - despite the shortcomings of the place - it is possible to live on much less and quite possibly save more money.

Is this a reasonable suspicion, or is there some other aspect of the working environment in Taiwan that makes up for it?

Or on the other hand, is it the case that many in Taiwan find actually being there (or rather, not being here, or in Korea) makes it worth putting up with inferior prospects and buying power versus here in 共匪-land?

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Stay in China. Teaching English in Taiwan is a dead thing now.
Not really any full-time jobs available, mostly all part-time.
Ask the majority of people on this forum how many have full-time jobs?
Even with a full-time job at a Cram school, full-time job is not a salary. It is still per hour pay. Not stable. No paid holidays. No benefits.
Taiwan is in population decline, too many so called ‘teachers’ floating about, not enough jobs.
China won’t have this problem.

2 Likes
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Thanks for your view. It wouldn’t surprise me if this was indeed the case; but it leaves me wondering what is keeping so many people there! Is it the location and the umm, scenery?

91 views and only one reply. :neutral: I’d really appreciate it if more people would weigh in on this one.

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Taiwan !! No replies because its a given :slight_smile:

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Could you expand on that?

At the moment, my heart and my head are pulling me in different directions. :ponder:

Essentially, what I gather is that the working conditions in China are likely to be easier, and the pay is likely to go further (many schools in China offer pay only marginally lower than in Taiwan, while the place offers a still significantly lower cost of living; this suggests both the possibility of saving more money, and enjoying what in many ways amounts to a higher standard of living).

On the other hand, the truth is that I don’t really like living here all that much. Although in a completely emotion-free analysis of the situation in financial terms, the natural choice is obvious (stay here), I would feel somewhat deflated at not moving to Taiwan at this point, since I really enjoyed visiting there, and have the idea of being there built up in my head.

And yet… I have never experienced working in Taiwan, so it’s quite possible that I might find myself disillusioned with the place when the reality of the (apparently) inferior pay and working conditions sets in.

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You wont be trapped there in Taiwan, so why not go and spend a year and then rethink? You have done China so?

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Well, I’ve spent time here as a student, haven’t worked in either Taiwan or the mainland.

I suppose that’s one way of looking at it. Best case scenario, everything goes fine and I have a great time living and working in Taiwan, worst case scenario I try somewhere else.

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Exactly. No pain no gain?

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tommy525, pain is most likely what one will be experiencing with their first job in Taiwan. Furthermore a decent share of bosses will want to lay you off for the summer. They need more teachers during the school year than during the summer. My boss laid me off for July and August, no pay!

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That’s unusual and also illegal as you must be employed a minimum of 14 hours a work for your ARC.

To the OP, living conditions in Taiwan are immensely better than China but working conditions are hit and miss and even a “good” boss will let you go without sufficient notice or even a thank you. If your intention is to have a better life outside work then taiwan is your choice, however. If you want a better working environment go to Japan or return home and get a teachign degree and apply at an expat school.

I am surprised ti hear you can make Y14,000 a month in China. Have wages really gone up that much? It’s been a few years since I looked but they used to be just a few thousand.

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To the laid off guy: Ouch. Well, I’m thinking of starting to work in September, so that specific problem won’t be one I have to deal with.

I’d appreciate more detail about the situation in general. I know it’s tougher than it was, but how tough?

To the previous poster: Wages have risen sharply in top-tier cities, but then again, the living costs there are also much higher - it goes without saying that they are still much more affordable to live than Taiwan (after months in mainland China, I was staggered at how expensive a place to live Taiwan is by comparison).

I was thinking about Japan - but I happen not to speak any Japanese, while my Chinese - while not fluent yet - is certainly of great help when it comes to making my way around the country and dealing with people - it will also lessen the chance of being screwed by bosses, hopefully, since I’ll have more of a clue what’s going on. That’s why Taiwan is currently my top choice, amongst other reasons.

The mainland is also on the table, but although it’s the best emerging market for English teachers along with Vietnam, I don’t actually like it here that much. Vietnam is more or less out because of the fact that I don’t speak the language.

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[quote=“Mucha Man”]

I am surprised ti hear you can make Y14,000 a month in China. Have wages really gone up that much? It’s been a few years since I looked but they used to be just a few thousand.[/quote]

I would say that if there really is a 14K/mo job in china then the OP should just stay there. but when I was looking last summer at jobs in china 90% of the postings were in the 5K-6K range. Occasionally I would see a 10K+ job but they also wanted additional qualifications.

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Which cities in China are you talking about?

Another thing to consider is that there are far more non-teaching opportunities in the mainland.

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That’s unusual and also illegal as you must be employed a minimum of 14 hours a work for your ARC.

To the OP, living conditions in Taiwan are immensely better than China but working conditions are hit and miss and even a “good” boss will let you go without sufficient notice or even a thank you. If your intention is to have a better life outside work then taiwan is your choice, however. If you want a better working environment go to Japan or return home and get a teachign degree and apply at an expat school. [/quote]
I thought many (most?) cram schools reduced their staff in the summer. Isn’t it the nature of the business? A lot of people I know take that time to go home and see family. They still keep their ARC, though. At the company I work for, the down time is before, during and after Chinese New Year. For two months, I only had 10 hours/week or less.

Despite not speaking Japanese, I’d say the living AND the working conditions there beat both China and Taiwan. It’s been a long time since I lived/worked in Japan, and it wasn’t teaching ESL, but the lifestyle suited me much better than in Taiwan. I won’t even consider China, unless my partner’s career takes him there, and even in that case, I might hold down the fort here.

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LURKER: So far you have received some solid advice from knowledgeable folks. The key thing to ask yourself is what’s more important? Quality of life or money in the bank? 14,000RMB / 66,000NT is a very decent living-wage for a Taiwan teacher, however, a gig of that prestige with your (in)experience is hard to get it. Especially nowadays, for reasons in line with what Emeril said: demographics.

According to the CIA’s Factbook, Taiwan’s birthrate (which fell from 14 per 1,000 people to 8 per in 2006-07), combined with an already low population growth (average 0.25% over the last 10 years), has created demographic stagnation. Ten years ago, Taiwan was an ESL teacher’s hotspot; today, it’s a human used car lot. It’s a case of too many teachers and not enough demand.

That said, what you will find easy in Taiwan are places to live, friendly locals and foreigners to socialize with. In re: Mucha Man’s comment, there is no doubt Taiwan, from Taipei to Kaohsiung, is an infinitely more “civilized” and “comfortable” place to live–as opposed to China. People can debate this back and forth but there’s no arguing this one point: Taiwan is a democracy and China is not. Take that as you will.

As far as teaching in a buxiban is concerned, go to one of the Teaching In Taiwan threads where Formosans have posted myriad tales of heartbreak and woe. On the other hand, the majority of people in the industry (that I know personally) are pretty damn happy with what they have and in no real hurry to leave. They bitch and complain about petty cram school directors or unpaid prep-work, but they aren’t going anywhere.

Now it’s been mentioned in other threads but it is necessary to reiterate. Both Taiwan and China (and living in the mainland, you should already know this) despite appearances, are deeply prejudiced against foreigners. In Taiwan, unless you’re wearing a business suit, everyone you meet will automatically assume you’re a teacher, which isn’t such a bad thing, except that’s all you are to them. Another fucking cram school teacher. They’ve been dealing with our ilk for a long time, and therefore, you will never hear some Taipei punk shout out "Laowai!" as you’re walking down the street. I don’t know about you, but that gets tiresome after a while, which is one of the reasons I want to kiss the tarmac at TPE every time I come back from a mainland visit.

Now, ahem, the 14,000RMB figure for teaching in China scares me. I checked with my sources in Guangzhou, Shanghai, and Chongqing and they say 10,000RMB is mid-to-high for a gig that doesn’t require any major effort. The caveat is that YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT TRUST ANY ONE. If certain Formosans think they’ve gotten rooked by the Taiwanese buxiban system, they should hear the horror stories that are coming out of China.

On the other hand, my sources in China report that while they consider themselves “lucky” to have found stable gigs, they have absolutely no compunction about walking away when the time comes. That said, you’re young. You have plenty of time to check things out. Hypothetically speaking, if I were you at this moment, I would come to Taipei, but I’d have Plan B and C on the mainland. I wouldn’t want to carry the regret of not taking an opportunity when I had the chance.

In conclusion, best of luck and keep us posted on your progress!

P.S. For any Formosans or mainlanders who want to take issue with my opinions: (A) feel free, I could not care less and not here to debate, and (B) it’s just my opinion gleaned from my experience(s).

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If you can get a job paying 14,000 a month and you like living there, stay there. Now in Taiwan it is not so easy to get full-time work if you have no experience. The big cities in China are great places to live. Before, I lived in Beijing and Shenzhen, loved every minute of it. I love living in Taipei too but I would not love it so much if I was trying to live off 35-40,000 a month because I could not find a decent full-time job.

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You need to earn at least 35,000NT a month to live to pay for rent, food, etc.
BUT you won’t save any money. That includes, going on holidays or going to the pub.

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The other thing that strongly recommends Taiwan is the medical system. China has the most capitalist and callous hospitals you will ever have the misfortune of attending. If you break your arm, or get hit by a car on the mainland, they can and will refuse to treat you unless you can prove that you have enough cash on hand. I broke my arrm there and “enough cash” turned out to be 24,000 RMB. The doctors on the mainland have the cost of any operation that the patient can’t pay for taken directly from their salary. With my arm, I had the bone set 3 times in one hour but no painkillers and it took over 5 hours from arriving in the hospital to actually getting treatment beyond the aforementioned arm setting.

Taiwan has National Health Insurance. The perpetrators of the White Terror and enemies of the people have socialized medicine while the mainland does not. At least two years ago, China didn’t even have any private insurers that could pay the hospital directly and instead they still required you to have huge amounts of petty cash and then ask to reimbursed later. Taiwan will make you pay 400 to 600 NTD a month as a premium. The same medical coverage in America cost me 368 $ every month and coverage in China is impossible. 368 x 32 = 11776 NTD. If you care about having medical, that’s an amazing deal.

All that said, China is more fun and has better pay.

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[quote=“JourneyMatt”]The other thing that strongly recommends Taiwan is the medical system. China has the most capitalist and callous hospitals you will ever have the misfortune of attending. If you break your arm, or get hit by a car on the mainland, they can and will refuse to treat you unless you can prove that you have enough cash on hand. I broke my arrm there and “enough cash” turned out to be 24,000 RMB. The doctors on the mainland have the cost of any operation that the patient can’t pay for taken directly from their salary. With my arm, I had the bone set 3 times in one hour but no painkillers and it took over 5 hours from arriving in the hospital to actually getting treatment beyond the aforementioned arm setting.

Taiwan has National Health Insurance. The perpetrators of the White Terror and enemies of the people have socialized medicine while the mainland does not. At least two years ago, China didn’t even have any private insurers that could pay the hospital directly and instead they still required you to have huge amounts of petty cash and then ask to reimbursed later. Taiwan will make you pay 400 to 600 NTD a month as a premium. The same medical coverage in America cost me 368 $ every month and coverage in China is impossible. 368 x 32 = 11776 NTD. If you care about having medical, that’s an amazing deal.

All that said, China is more fun and has better pay.[/quote]

Well, as other posters have pointed out - as someone with no experience, I’m unlikely to be able to find a job that will be pay 10,000 Yuan right off the bat here in mainland China. Then again, I’m likely to end up at the bottom of the pay scale (or close to it) if I go to Taiwan, as well.

China is more fun? Really? Personally, I find it dull here - Taiwan is a much more cheerful and colourful place by contrast, in my humble opinion. If it wasn’t for the fact that I greatly prefer Taiwan to here as a place to be, I would not even consider leaving, given the much lower cost of living.

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[quote=“LURKER”]
China is more fun? Really? Personally, I find it dull here - Taiwan is a much more cheerful and colourful place by contrast, in my humble opinion. If it wasn’t for the fact that I greatly prefer Taiwan to here as a place to be, I would not even consider leaving, given the much lower cost of living.[/quote]

Two questions and a point.

Where in China are you?

I lived there for a year and talking to other foreigners about things like price, people trying to cheat you, finding not shallow girls, etc. you need to pick up a map of WW2 that has the Japanese occupation of China and make sure you don’t live in any of those cities. The Japanese map tends to coincide well with which cities have been glutted with foreign companies and tourists. In the coastal cities you tend to be either a pest or prey as far as the locals are concerned. Inland, they’re still happy to see you and there isn’t enough foreigners for the organized scams of Beijing or Shanghai to pop up. (people will still overcharge you but it’s an opportunistic thing and they will actually go away when you say no one time.) Go west, my son. I lived in Chengdu where I was one of ~4000 foreigners in a city of 11 million. Just as good for access to good stuff but not over saturated with foreigners and thus those who prey on them as Beijing, Shenzhen. or Guangzhou Similarly, it made the job market much better. (I was studying abroad but my brother came and found an ESL job with no experience and makes more than I do on the mainland than I do in Taiwan.

Do you enjoy being a foreigner?

If you go to taiwan that disappears for good or ill. You’re still foreign of course and kids and people will be pretty happy to see you. But you’re not special beyond that. People won’t go out of the way to buy you drinks in clubs. You won’t get a seat of honor just for being white anymore. (There’s still racism in favor of white skin but nothing near the perks that people foist upon foreigners in China.) You’re going to have to pay covers at clubs. You will miss it.

And the point. You’re getting a job. However interesting Taiwan seems, it’s going to be a lot less interesting once you’re working 23 hours a week +15 hours of prep. School in China is essentially a paid vacation with some Chinese classes. That’s going to stop whether you’re in China in Taiwan, but Taiwan will make you work harder for less money. A bottle of beer costs 4 times more here than it does in China. Yang rou chuan (sheep on a stick) goes 1 to 2 RMB per skewer in China, here its 20 to 30 NTD (5 to 7.5 RMB) . You can have a damn nice apartment in China for pennies. In Taiwan, most beginning ESL teachers can only afford studio apartments. (If you don’t mind living a year in a hotel room it’s great.)

I don’t mean to be negative I do like it here, but China is easier, bigger, cheaper, and a thousand other comparative adjectives that make it a more fun place to live than Taiwan. You’ll see people on this forum complain about how the ESL market in Taiwan used to be a really awesome deal, but it collapsed in the last ten years. China is still in the golden age of massive demand but no supply. It’s place where a foreigner can live like a king doing very little work if they’re willing to leave Beijing. Taiwan ESL is a real job where you have to watch your cash and budget.

The only reason I’m not in China right now is the lack of medical insurance there and I have compelling reasons for never ever being uninsured. If I was perfectly healthy, China would be the place to be.