Terror in Paris

That is somewhat funny and given that there is a grain of truth/reality in your assessment, let me rephrase:

Climate change could be a problem. I disagree that we KNOW that this will be catastrophic.

What I have a problem with is this: The debate is often very nebulous and precious. The types of economic costs being proposed to limit CO2 emissions will have a REAL impact on the poorest countries and this will hold back development in some of the poorest countries of the world. This will limit their economic growth; it will cause them to have less money to spend on clean water and health care; it will consign them to remaining in dire conditions. Everywhere development has taken place, heath, well being, socio-economic standards AND environmental protection have INCREASED. Like communism and its manifestations before it, the climate change hysteria that we are seeing now discounts the impact on millions while issuing reports claiming to care about the people of Africa and other undeveloped regions of the world, pointing out what COULD happen to them in 30 or 50 years while ignoring what is happening to them NOW. This is why I think that Bjorn Lomberg is spot on in his assessment and why for many climate change does not factor into the top 10 or even top 20 concerns facing people in the developing world. The longer these countries stay poor and undeveloped, the more people will die and live blighted lives from insufficient food, lack of clean water and barbaric health care conditions. How much more mindless leftist utopian can you get than this? And the numbers who will die and suffer will likewise be in the millions and tens of millions. Who will answer for that?

And while I see many problems in the Muslim world, I still truly believe that the issues are primarily economic exacerbated by demographic factors. To me there is little difference between the violence of the rap, inner city culture bedeviled by broken families, poor schooling and drugs and those of the same violent, misogynistic supposedly religious but really gangsta Islamofascists (why do so many turn from petty crime and drugs to jihadism?) and even the celebrated macho violence of Latin America. These conditions are not unique to the Muslim world, they merely exhibit themselves there in primarily “stated” “professed” religious terms. I 100% disagree that Islam and the Muslim World are incompatible with enlightenment, respect for women, respect for families and a desire for peace and prosperity.

[quote=“rowland”]
As for Islam, it was all downhill after they [strike]jettisoned[/strike] Jetson-ed Avicenna’s approach to theology.[/quote]

Fixed that for you!

[quote=“fred smith”]
Climate change could be a problem. I disagree that we KNOW that this will be catastrophic. [/quote]

Agreed.

[quote=“fred smith”]
What I have a problem with is this: The debate is often very nebulous and precious. The types of economic costs being proposed to limit CO2 emissions will have a REAL impact on the poorest countries and this will hold back development in some of the poorest countries of the world. This will limit their economic growth; it will cause them to have less money to spend on clean water and health care; it will consign them to remaining in dire conditions.[/quote]

So you have no faith in renewables?

[quote=“fred smith”]
Everywhere development has taken place, heath, well being, socio-economic standards AND environmental protection have INCREASED.[/quote]

I disagree that environmental protection is always increased. I think that’s just a convenient meme. But I agree about other living standards.

[quote=“fred smith”]
Like communism and its manifestations before it, the climate change hysteria that we are seeing now discounts the impact on millions while issuing reports claiming to care about the people of Africa and other undeveloped regions of the world, pointing out what COULD happen to them in 30 or 50 years while ignoring what is happening to them NOW. This is why I think that Bjorn Lomberg is spot on in his assessment and why for many climate change does not factor into the top 10 or even top 20 concerns facing people in the developing world. The longer these countries stay poor and undeveloped, the more people will die and live blighted lives from insufficient food, lack of clean water and barbaric health care conditions. How much more mindless leftist utopian can you get than this? And the numbers who will die and suffer will likewise be in the millions and tens of millions. Who will answer for that? [/quote]

But these greens are just an interest group, they are not dictators. They are one vector - and a useful one at that - adjusting the course of human history. So maybe you are overstating their influence a bit? And lots of them believe that renewables can work, and many of them are into green entrepreneurship so I don’t think calling them anti-development or leftist is really accurate. You are a fairly erudite individual. Why do you subscribe to such a red-neck view of liberals, like they are all commies in disguise?

[quote=“fred smith”]
And while I see many problems in the Muslim world, I still truly believe that the issues are primarily economic exacerbated by demographic factors. To me there is little difference between the violence of the rap, inner city culture bedeviled by broken families, poor schooling and drugs and those of the same violent, misogynistic supposedly religious but really gangsta Islamofascists (why do so many turn from petty crime and drugs to jihadism?) and even the celebrated macho violence of Latin America. These conditions are not unique to the Muslim world, they merely exhibit themselves there in primarily “stated” “professed” religious terms. I 100% disagree that Islam and the Muslim World are incompatible with enlightenment, respect for women, respect for families and a desire for peace and prosperity.[/quote]

Maybe. It’s not a dumb theory. Not sure about the “respect for women” thing, though.

[quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“Ermintrude”][quote=“BigJohn”][quote=“Ermintrude”]
And don’t be dissing no fred. At least he’d be fun to drink with.[/quote]

Erm, Fred deserves his dissing because of all the dissing he hands out. But I agree that he has “cocktail charisma”.[/quote]

And intelligence. And good arguments.[/quote]

Well, he’s clever but his arguments are all too often distorted by ideological bias. Note his conflation of the evils of communism vis a vis Lenin, Stalin and Mao with the supposed “leftism” of Warmists.[/quote]

It’s difficult to give a shit about global warming. I applaud his engagement.

Global warming threads please take the third door on the left. This is Terror in Paris people.

More raids in Belgium too!

BigJohn, you stole that joke from Emo Philips.

It’s a good one, though.

So much gun violence and ethnic strife in Europe lately. I get the impression that it’s a very sick and lawless society.

They need more enlightened government policies. That will fix everything. The government should set up loudspeakers on every street corner playing Abba until everyone mellows out and hugs each other.

And ban Burzum – under penalty of frowny face and no cookie.

No, you have that wrong. I have spoken to my European friends, who know everything by the way, and they assure me that ONLY America can be a very sick and lawless society. IF there are issues of sickness and lawlessness in Europe then they are the result of blowback from America’s misguided policies which lack sophistication and nuance. We discuss only recent decades… remember DON’T BRING UP THE WAR!!! :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

No, you have that wrong. I have spoken to my European friends, who know everything by the way, and they assure me that ONLY America can be a very sick and lawless society. IF there are issues of sickness and lawlessness in Europe then they are the result of blowback from America’s misguided policies which lack sophistication and nuance. We discuss only recent decades… remember DON’T BRING UP THE WAR!!! :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:[/quote]

again, for some reason, I have to agree with Fred. that was one of the dumbest statements I’ve read in awhile.

No, you have that wrong. I have spoken to my European friends, who know everything by the way, and they assure me that ONLY America can be a very sick and lawless society. IF there are issues of sickness and lawlessness in Europe then they are the result of blowback from America’s misguided policies which lack sophistication and nuance. We discuss only recent decades… remember DON’T BRING UP THE WAR!!! :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:[/quote]

again, for some reason, I have to agree with Fred. that was one of the dumbest statements I’ve read in awhile.[/quote]

It was meant facetiously. He was trying to imply in some sort of tongue in cheek manner that America is not so violent as Europeans tend to think, and that they are not better or better off than Americans.

No, you have that wrong. I have spoken to my European friends, who know everything by the way, and they assure me that ONLY America can be a very sick and lawless society. IF there are issues of sickness and lawlessness in Europe then they are the result of blowback from America’s misguided policies which lack sophistication and nuance. We discuss only recent decades… remember DON’T BRING UP THE WAR!!! :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:[/quote]

again, for some reason, I have to agree with Fred. that was one of the dumbest statements I’ve read in awhile.[/quote]

It was meant facetiously. He was trying to imply in some sort of tongue in cheek manner that America is not so violent as Europeans tend to think, and that they are not better or better off than Americans.[/quote]

actually, that did not go unnoticed. i was merely mocking the peanut gallery/trolls who IMHO seemed to made the FLOB experience worse.

[quote=“Jack Burton”]

actually, that did not go unnoticed. I was merely mocking the peanut gallery/trolls who IMHO seemed to made the FLOB experience worse.[/quote]

My bad.

But them trolls is good for traffic! You can’t have drama without conflict.

Looks like Muslims are taking the message of peace, tolerance and unity to heart…

france24.com/en/20150117-cha … er-france/

Which war? The war which was fought for a reason so just and crystal clear that no one ever questioned it for even a moment or the war about nothing whose real purpose was so murky people are still debating it even today, years later?

[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]Looks like Muslims are taking the message of peace, tolerance and unity to heart…

france24.com/en/20150117-cha … er-france/

[quote]
Text by FRANCE 24

Latest update : 2015-01-17
Thousands of Muslims demonstrated on Friday against a new Prophet Mohammed cartoon published by French magazine Charlie Hebdo this week, with protests turning deadly in Niger and several people injured in Pakistan.

Four people were killed and at least 45 others were injured in protests in Niger’s second city of Zinder, with demonstrators ransacking three churches and torching the French cultural centre.

A doctor based in Zinder told AFP that all of the dead and three of the injured had gunshot wounds.

“We’ve never seen that in living memory in Zinder,” a local administration official said. “It’s a black Friday.”

There was also bloodshed in Karachi, Pakistan, where three people were injured when protesters clashed with police outside the French consulate, officials said. Among them was an AFP photographer, who was shot in the back.

…As protesters in Dakar and Mauritania torched French flags, Qatar and Bahrain warned that the new Prophet Mohammed cartoon published Wednesday by the French satirical weekly could fuel hatred.

The latest issue of Charlie Hebdo features a cartoon of Mohammed on its cover holding a “Je Suis Charlie” (I am Charlie) sign under the headline “All is forgiven.”

[/quote][/quote]

Thousands of Muslims, eh? Wow! That’s a lot!

Gosh… so Saddam never was really a threat after all? Why aren’t you protesting Gulf War I? The Clinton administration attacks on Iraq? The UN resolutions about Iraq? The human rights reports about his mass atrocities?

sorry, but I am going to take this back to demographics… NOTE to those who reply before reading (This means you Big John): Demographics ISN’T everything and the article notes numerous nations where the fertility rates are still soaring (these being mostly in the Sahel indicate to me that Boko Haram is just getting started and we will have a generation of fighting there). That said, the youth bulge (and let’s be honest, the problem is always with having too many young men, not women) is disappearing and the countries that used to be the source of instability have rapidly moderated: Lebanon, Iran, Maghreb, Saudi Arabia and even to some degree Egypt) but with Yemen, West Bank, Gaza, various Gulf states and the wide swath across the Sahel and Iraq and Afghanistan all experiencing the high growth rates that are going to lead to economic issues given their low literacy rates and high unemployment rates.

[quote]OP-ED COLUMNIST
The Fertility Implosion
By DAVID BROOKS

When you look at pictures from the Arab spring, you see these gigantic crowds of young men, and it confirms the impression that the Muslim Middle East has a gigantic youth bulge — hundreds of millions of young people with little to do. But that view is becoming obsolete. As Nicholas Eberstadt and Apoorva Shah of the American Enterprise Institute point out, over the past three decades, the Arab world has undergone a little noticed demographic implosion. Arab adults are having many fewer kids.

Usually, high religious observance and low income go along with high birthrates. But, according to the United States Census Bureau, Iran now has a similar birth rate to New England — which is the least fertile region in the U.S.

The speed of the change is breathtaking. A woman in Oman today has 5.6 fewer babies than a woman in Oman 30 years ago. Morocco, Syria and Saudi Arabia have seen fertility-rate declines of nearly 60 percent, and in Iran it’s more than 70 percent. These are among the fastest declines in recorded history.

The Iranian regime is aware of how the rapidly aging population and the lack of young people entering the work force could lead to long-term decline. But there’s not much they have been able to do about it. Maybe Iranians are pessimistic about the future. Maybe Iranian parents just want smaller families.

As Eberstadt is careful to note, demographics is not necessarily destiny. You can have fast economic development with low fertility or high fertility (South Korea and Taiwan did it a few decades ago). But, over the long term, it’s better to have a growing work force, not one that’s shrinking compared with the number of retirees.

If you look around the world, you see many other nations facing demographic headwinds. If the 20th century was the century of the population explosion, the 21st century, as Eberstadt notes, is looking like the century of the fertility implosion.

Already, nearly half the world’s population lives in countries with birthrates below the replacement level. According to the Census Bureau, the total increase in global manpower between 2010 and 2030 will be just half the increase we experienced in the two decades that just ended. At the same time, according to work by the International Institute of Applied Systems Analysis, the growth in educational attainment around the world is slowing.

This leads to what the writer Philip Longman has called the gray tsunami — a situation in which huge shares of the population are over 60 and small shares are under 30.

Some countries have it worse than others. Since the end of the Soviet Union, Russia has managed the trick of having low birthrates and high death rates. Russian life expectancy is basically the same as it was 50 years ago, and the nation’s population has declined by roughly six million since 1992.

Rapidly aging Japan has one of the worst demographic profiles, and most European profiles are famously grim. In China, long-term economic growth could face serious demographic restraints. The number of Chinese senior citizens is soaring by 3.7 percent year after year. By 2030, as Eberstadt notes, there will be many more older workers (ages 50-64) than younger workers (15-29). In 2010, there were almost twice as many younger ones. In a culture where there is low social trust outside the family, a generation of only children is giving birth to another generation of only children, which is bound to lead to deep social change.

Even the countries with healthier demographics are facing problems. India, for example, will continue to produce plenty of young workers. By 2030, according to the Vienna Institute of Demography, India will have 100 million relatively educated young men, compared with fewer than 75 million in China.

But India faces a regional challenge. Population growth is high in the northern parts of the country, where people tend to be poorer and less educated. Meanwhile, fertility rates in the southern parts of the country, where people are richer and better educated, are already below replacement levels.

The U.S. has long had higher birthrates than Japan and most European nations. The U.S. population is increasing at every age level, thanks in part to immigration. America is aging, but not as fast as other countries.

But even that is looking fragile. The 2010 census suggested that U.S. population growth is decelerating faster than many expected.

Besides, it’s probably wrong to see this as a demographic competition. American living standards will be hurt by an aging and less dynamic world, even if the U.S. does attract young workers.

For decades, people took dynamism and economic growth for granted and saw population growth as a problem. Now we’ve gone to the other extreme, and it’s clear that young people are the scarce resource. In the 21st century, the U.S. could be the slowly aging leader of a rapidly aging world.[/quote]

You mean before GW1, when he was a US proxy?

Ah… an ignorant comment… how unexpected… PROVE IT! And do make the effort or you will be embarrassed… oops! too late!