What is this
that so many people talk about?
How much can we trust that the contributors to this discussion know much about integration or lack thereof?
Or are you all offering anecdotal evidence?
Here is mine: the Arabs I worked with in Germany appeared as German to me as the Bulgarians, Poles, and Russians there.
Yeah, thanks to some posters who think emotions are the same as reasons. Iâm not surprised to read âknee jerkâ simplistic and unreasoned comments from people who make comments of similarly low quality in other threads. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but that does not make all opinions equally useful. 
[/quote]
Well, you have the Europeans arguing against everybody else, in this thread. Itâs worth bearing that in mind when it comes to seeing what their emotional responses and lived experiences are, compared with anyone else.
And by âusefulâ, do you mean âpeople who are eligible to vote in France and Europeâ? Or people who have a more direct stake in directing policy in Europe? Or just who wins the internet punditry?
Although the Guardian is a low-brow lefty rag, they do occasionally hit the balls thrown at them. theguardian.com/commentisfre ⌠silence-us
[quote=âyuliâ]What is this
that so many people talk about?
How much can we trust that the contributors to this discussion know much about integration or lack thereof?
Or are you all offering anecdotal evidence?
Here is mine: the Arabs I worked with in Germany appeared as German to me as the Bulgarians, Poles, and Russians there.[/quote]
Were they women or men, did their wives work, what were their views
on Marriage outside of Islam?
Thatâs just their general views on women. Then we can talk about homosexuality, freedom
of speech, blasphemyâŚso
many viewpoints that they are WAY out there on.
I think Iâm giving up this thread.
Just a humble note for Yuli. I havenât had any problem in the past with being friendly or even become friends with Muslims. I donât want to kick them all from any country. Iâm saying that the vast majority that comes to my country and most likely anywhere else in Europe have a really hard time adapting to the host culture, and this is mainly because of two things: they donât want to give up their values and their culture, and many aspects of the latter are just against our cultures and the values that helped to raise our countries, the countries that now they want to enjoy.
And this is a big problem currently. And I do think that foreigners donât have all the rights that natives have, and that (we) foreigners have to demonstrate we deserve to be one more citizen in the country that accepts us. The same that I show respect and / or I try to adapt to local customs, and the same that I wouldnât live here if there was a so big and unavoidable cultural gap, I expect the same from people who come to my country or anywhere else.
[quote=âyuliâ]What is this
that so many people talk about?
[/quote]
Iâm reluctant to integrate to European ways, but I donât shoot them up for not comforming to my ways.
[quote=âChewDawgâ]I donât think Europe has done a great job on integration. Compared with places such as Dearborn, Michigan, or LA, and many other parts of the US, where Arab, Persian and Asian populations have achieved great success and contributed significantly to their communities, I think European countries have often attracted less dynamic immigrants than the US? Why? I would say a less welcoming political culture. The French political class remains for the most part Caucasian and stuck on a very secular model from the French revolution days (which doesnât take into account diversity). 
In recent times only Sarkozy has had a non-French background (Hungarian).
I also donât think there is nearly as much political participation amongst newcomers to France. I think there is a lot more nativism of the Le Pen variety in France which is a strange combination of left wing economic protectionism and old school conservative isolationism that appeals to quite ignorant people. I also donât think the political class has done a good job on promoting the benefits of immigration. I believe that open immigration is very good for business 
because it provides new and often cheaper labor pools, especially in countries such as France where the continental system makes it hard to fire and hire employees with lots of seniority. I think anyone with centre-right political sympathies should think along the same lines as I do. I also think that open immigration provides much-needed workers and contributors in countries with generous social safety nets, low birth rates, and entitled youth that may think some types of work are beneath them. Without them, the services economy would not run as smoothly. I totally support free speech and abhor this extremism and have always thought that more money should be spent on surveillance mechanisms and policing to combat such threats. But I donât think we can completely tie extremism to one religion. There is extremism in every culture and religion and it is a byproduct of ignorance. Are critics of Islam to blame because an anti-Muslim fanatic murdered 77 people in Norway in 2011? Of course not. The Pope, Sunni muftis at Al-Azhar university in Cairo etc. have all condemned this attack.
I think Europe can actually learn a lot from the US and its successful integration of immigrants. Of course, the political class in France ranging from Socialists to most Gaulists to FN bigots, all of which sneer at US culture, wonât likely admit or want to do so.[/quote]
Having a good day, Chewie? I would say this pretty much is the best post in this thread.
Living in Taiwan, we donât get much exposure to the radical side of Islam. Or anything Islamic, except running into the odd Indonesian housemaid who perhaps chooses to wear a head scarf.
Rather different in Europe, where Muslims are not shy about making their presence felt:
This is problem which East Asia has largely avoidedâŚ
Has anybody besides me visit a Musilm country and got his girl friends sexually harrassed? Just wonderingâŚ
A specially funny and weird moment: one of the visits I made to Morocco (Iâve been there plenty of times and not for the reasons you perverts think) I went with an ex. While I was disusing about morals, ethics, sex and shit with my Moroccan friend, his friend was trying to get my ex to sleep with her, in a stupid, annoying yet childish way. He was also defending the Islam moral sooner.
[quote=âDogâs_Breakfastâ]
[/quote]
No, but that sort of thing happened to me on several occasions in Spain though. And come to think of if in Australia, Canada, America, Germany, Sweden, Fiji and Taiwan.
That many places? What the hell is she wearing? and where the hell are you hanging out? 
No, but that sort of thing happened to me on several occasions in Spain though. And come to think of if in Australia, Canada, America, Germany, Sweden, Fiji and Taiwan.[/quote]
Have you even been to Jemaa el-Fna by night? did you stop by the tales tellers? itâs all plagued with molesters. Same experience all the female travelers I know⌠except for some friends who came and were quite disappointed for they werenât rear inspected 
What is your point? Now we are supposed to believe Muslims are an existential threat because they are sexist?
That many places? What the hell is she wearing? and where the hell are you hanging out? [/quote]
There will be no blaming of the victims here thank you. 
Itâs merely a matter of degree with some of these religions - Islam being a fine example.
The extremists shoot infidels while the âmoderatesâ merely slice up their childrenâs genitals. All are convinced of their divine right to spill other peopleâs blood for their âfaithâ. Thatâs not surprising though, since even supposedly âsecularâ societies afford the religious more consideration than they deserve.
[quote=âChewDawgâ]I donât think Europe has done a great job on integration. Compared with places such as Dearborn, Michigan, or LA, and many other parts of the US, where Arab, Persian and Asian populations have achieved great success and contributed significantly to their communities, I think European countries have often attracted less dynamic immigrants than the US? Why? I would say a less welcoming political culture. The French political class remains for the most part Caucasian and stuck on a very secular model from the French revolution days (which doesnât take into account diversity). In recent times only Sarkozy has had a non-French background (Hungarian).
I also donât think there is nearly as much political participation amongst newcomers to France. I think there is a lot more nativism of the Le Pen variety in France which is a strange combination of left wing economic protectionism and old school conservative isolationism that appeals to quite ignorant people. I also donât think the political class has done a good job on promoting the benefits of immigration. I believe that open immigration is very good for business because it provides new and often cheaper labor pools, especially in countries such as France where the continental system makes it hard to fire and hire employees with lots of seniority. I think anyone with centre-right political sympathies should think along the same lines as I do. I also think that open immigration provides much-needed workers and contributors in countries with generous social safety nets, low birth rates, and entitled youth that may think some types of work are beneath them. Without them, the services economy would not run as smoothly. I totally support free speech and abhor this extremism and have always thought that more money should be spent on surveillance mechanisms and policing to combat such threats. But I donât think we can completely tie extremism to one religion. There is extremism in every culture and religion and it is a byproduct of ignorance. Are critics of Islam to blame because an anti-Muslim fanatic murdered 77 people in Norway in 2011? Of course not. The Pope, Sunni muftis at Al-Azhar university in Cairo etc. have all condemned this attack.
I think Europe can actually learn a lot from the US and its successful integration of immigrants. Of course, the political class in France ranging from Socialists to most Gaulists to FN bigots, all of which sneer at US culture, wonât likely admit or want to do so.[/quote]
I donât think we can compare the Arabs in Europe with the ones in USA.
USA was smart enough to get the quality ones and not letting them come en masse.
It would be better to compare those European muslims to the Americanâs Mexicans. USA is also facing issues with those immigrants but I donât see it being a serious threat for the country⌠Because⌠Well yeah they are Christian and their kids will easily mix and adapt.
we also have to mention that USA is a very patriotic country and patriotism is something that most Europeans reject so maybe itâs another reason for muslims not respecting their host country.
As you said masse immigration is very good for the bosses because it drives the cost of labor down, so more profit to them. But I t is also a heavy weight on the public finances and it hurts localâs paycheck and rights.
After WW2, france got a huge influx of Spanish and Italian. I believe their todayâs generation are 100% integrated and considere themselves French without a doubt. and to reach that result it wasnât a pain in the ass for the localsâŚ
So again, Islam is a problem to the western world.
Itâs simple.
Iâm saying that this behavior belongs to the past, itâs a problem they have, and because they are totally oblivious to it, some of them donât get any better even when they move to other countries, because theyâre taught that it is actually all these sluts fault, for they wear like bitches, so they are bitches and they deserve it. It is a very awkward situation when you let somebody get in your house and you find out one way or another about this. Awkward at best.
Iâm saying that this behavior belongs to the past, itâs a problem they have, and because they are totally oblivious to it, some of them donât get any better even when they move to other countries, because theyâre taught that it is actually all these sluts fault, for they wear like bitches, so they are bitches and they deserve it. It is a very awkward situation when you let somebody get in your house and you find out one way or another about this. Awkward at best.[/quote]
Sorry dude but in North America this is the stefeotype we have of Hispanic men. Sexist bordering on rapey with their sense of macho entitlement.
Itâs also a stereotype many have about blacks. I donât believe them so why should I believe yours about Muslims? They really seem to me to come from the same dark place.
Which is not to say that i donât recognize that some places, like India, are far more aggressively sexist than others. I do but I also recognize that nearly every traditional culture is similar and all have been integrated into western values to a functioning degree. Just make sure girls get access to education and most problems go away.
Iâm saying that this behavior belongs to the past, itâs a problem they have, and because they are totally oblivious to it, some of them donât get any better even when they move to other countries, because theyâre taught that it is actually all these sluts fault, for they wear like bitches, so they are bitches and they deserve it. It is a very awkward situation when you let somebody get in your house and you find out one way or another about this. Awkward at best.[/quote]
Sorry dude but in North America this is the stefeotype we have of Hispanic men. Sexist bordering on rapey with their sense of macho entitlement.
Itâs also a stereotype many have about blacks. I donât believe them so why should I believe yours about Muslims? They really seem to me to come from the same dark place.[/quote]
Funny how often you are in denial 
I remember watching 2 videos about 2 girls (wearing casual), one was walking in NY and the other in Bruxelles.
In NY she was receiving some âfriendly commentsâ such as âhey sunshineâ or âhow are you doingâ. About 99% of those comments were made by blacks.
In Bruxelles the comments were less friendly and more like âbitchâ, âwanna fuckâ⌠And was made by ArabsâŚ