The AOC (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) thread


#21

Wall figures come from that liberal rag, Fox News

Creating jobs and unions is not a batshit crazy idea.


#22

No, but it is just a idea. Which is what the main criticism of her plan is. A bunch of high gov spending projects with no real plan. Everyone wants to create more jobs, shes not the first one to think of this.


#23

According to the institution on taxation and economic policy, undocumented immigrants also pay 11.6 billion per annum in taxes.


#24

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) in a 2013 report, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers,” available at fairus.org, stated:

"Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments…

Do you pay taxes on under the table money? Answer me this.


#25

What are the facts behind the economic impact of immigrants? We checked Trump’s figures with immigration and tax policy experts across the political spectrum,who said he was exaggerating, at best.

“That $200 billion figure does seem inflated to me,” said Randy Capps, director for research for U.S. programs at the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute.

“A little high,” said Robert Rector, a senior research fellow with the Heritage Foundation.

“It sounds extraordinarily high to me,” said Meg Wiehe, deputy director at the nonpartisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP).

“Frankly absurd,” David Dyssegaard Kallick, the deputy director of the nonpartisan Fiscal Policy Institute, told NBC News.

IF TRUMP’S WRONG, WHAT’S THE TRUE COST?

Conservative groups like the Heritage Foundation have sought to put a price tag on illegal immigration amid lobbying efforts against legalization, but none have pegged it as high as Trump’s estimate.

Rector said his 2013 estimate pegged the cost of undocumented immigrants — the cost of services received minus their tax contributions — was about $54 billion a year.

A precise cost is nearly impossible to ascertain, many experts said. That’s in part because undocumented immigrants operate within the shadows, leaving their full fiscal contributions — and use of taxpayer-funded resources — at least somewhat unknown.

“It’s really hard to calculate anyone’s ‘net cost’ or ‘net benefit.’ We all use all kinds of services, from roads to military protection. How do we apportion what part of that is something I or you or an immigrant use?” said Kallick.

Overall, there is a broad misunderstanding of how much undocumented immigrants contribute to America’s balance sheets, and what taxpayer-funded benefits they receive, the experts interviewed by NBC News said.

“Undocumented immigrants are incredible contributors to our economy and are not eligible for public benefits that people think they come here for,” Wiehe said.

An estimated half of the nation’s undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security. The ITEP estimates that state and local governments take in $11.74 billion a year from undocumented immigrants.

Wiehe added that undocumented immigrants are also not eligible for the federal earned income tax credit, so they’re taxed at higher rates than similar low-income Americans.


#26

Your talking point, the one you say is not batshit crazy, calls for the creation of millions of new jobs. Doing what? Sitting at desks? How will the creation of millions of NEW jobs impact current Federal employees? What does that do to their morale if the new guys are sitting around in FEMA tents playing Donkey Kong on their phones 8 hours a day?

Why mandate that the new jobs be unionized? How is that legally possible to write in the legislation? Again, what effect does the mandate that the new jobs must be unionized have on current non-unionized Federal employees?

Your new law would apply upward pressure on the salaries and wages of Federal employees and add to government spending. What is the good this does for Americans not working for Uncle Sam? Is there a scintilla of evidence that unionized Federal jobs help non-Federal employees?

It’s just rhetoric. SJW’s want more union power, and that’s this talking point is about. Nothing more, nothing less. Batshit crazy as most other things on her list. An exercise in partisanship.


#27

Whats your solution?


#28

Ok so you continue to make a case for me thanks. It costs 54 billion!

Again my point. Do you declare under the table money on your income?


#29

Two parts. One, AOC finds a nice job as barista in the Bronx somewhere. I think she qualifies. Two. Never, ever vote for Democrats.


#30

Why don’t you run for congress since you know what’s best? Go try to beat her.


#31

These people tax fun lol

http://thefederalist.com/2018/11/14/gamers-outraged-chicagos-new-9-percent-amusement-tax/


#32

All @bojack needs to do is promise free stuff for everyone, say he is native american because he has high cheek bones and sleep his way to the top.


#33

I’d probably need to work the native American angle up into some proper victimhood first. You can’t be successful in the Democrat party unless you’re enriched by victimhood.

Also, not sure I actually need to sleep my way there. Looks like strong knees are all that’s needed.


#34

“Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for when dealing with a stupid person than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.”
Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison

AOC ideas are pure stupidity, I would also agree with the reasoning above it is pointless to try and reason with a stupid person.

Here the person making the presentation calls the progressive left, just the left, but also makes the point, you can’t argue with someone from the (progressive) left.

Lastly a clip from a former KGB agent gives insight to why that is, part of it he identifies as being so ideologically brainwashed, even when presented with clear evidence Y is Y, it will be rejected.


#35

I doubt it, the controls on that are really horrible.


#36

I think AOC is the real danger and a result of Trump’s casual approach to policy. Trump is willing to do whatever it takes, to make many foolish compromises, to achieve what he thinks is best for the country - which is an overall good imo. It’s a crying shame he doesn’t get more credit for it.

By “casual” I mean his Twitter account and Fox & Friends. He did use Twitter brilliantly to outflank the liberal media to win election, but he’s paying a very high price for bypassing them now; I wish he could find other media outlets to support him, but it looks like that’s not possible.

Anyway, the danger from using Twitter and the danger from allowing yourself to be characterized as lazy, stupid, not curious, narcissistic - all the attributes the Democrat press has worked hard to hang around his neck for nearly 3 years now - is the rise of someone like Trump on the other side. AOC is also adept at Twitter, comes from a wealthy background, she shrugs off what’s said about her in the MSM, telegenic in her own way. It’s a powerful image, like Trump’s. She’s also very young, inexperienced, and has obviously not lived a life yet.

So in a way Trump has produced AOC, and that is unfortunate.


#37

She point is, she doesn’t care.

http://www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf


#38

She should really focus her energy on one thing thats for sure attainable. I don’t technically have anything against things like getting rid of nuclear energy if we can go to renewable. Or go to all renewbles. But how? How do we replace the jobs lost where families depend on the income and job is somewhat geographically dependent. Coal miners lost their jobs in Germany as they closed the last coal mine but they haven’t found a way to replace those jobs.

Free education, sounds great. I have questions she need to solve. Quality of Goods and services are profit driven. When they get money from the fed gov no matter what, do they care to compete and make things better? If they are given money from the gov, whats stopping them from saying a 30k education is now 50k?


#39

Interesting. I think it may at least partly explain AOC and radical leftists in the US and South America.

I think it explains why leftists in academia, where the USSR was always popular, are so nutty today in many universities. They’re not arguing in favor of the USSR any more (they can’t), but they are definitely arguing against America, the history of the US, American values, and American institutions, especially religion. Still doing the work of the Soviet KGB, in other words.


#40

Political power. She’s focused on it like a laser beam.