If you would like to read biased, spun “info” on marijuana and its effects, you can here. I’d like to pick them all apart, but I’m sleepy.
whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/pub … index.html
I did have a problem with the studies claims of effects on learning and job satisfaction as it uses “heavy marijuana” users (those who smoke 7 times or more a week) to cite the big difference between them and nonsmokers and children born with and without the influence of marijuana in utero. Well, if mom was smoking while she was pregnant, I would doubt that her parenting skills made any improvements once junior popped out.
I think if you are a 15-year-old who smokes pot on a daily basis, there’s a lot more going on than just getting high that affects your scholastic performance…for instance, parental supervision. A twelve-year-old doesn’t pick up a drug habit because mom and dad are the best parents in the world and life is peachy keen.
There’s an awful lot of spin on their numbers (or lack of numbers for many claims and lack of useful numbers in other claims) such as the number of people who are under the influence of marijuana at the time of arrest without any mention of how many of those arrests were drug-related and how many weren’t.
Read it if you want. I’m sure it’ll give fuel to those who are adamant that smoking weed is such a horrendous act that makes you responsible for other people’s decisions to commit crime and others a chance to see how far the US government will go to make marijuana look so bad although it doesn’t take much to see how mu
But then a quick glance at the NDIC (National Drug Intelligence Center) revealed this statement about the correlation of marijuana and violent crime:
[quote]Marijuana-related violence, when it occurs, typically is associated with cannabis cultivation, although there are reports of violence associated with transportation and distribution of the drug.
Another part of the report:
While the abusers are generally characterized as nonviolent, marijuana trafficking generates violence.
[/quote]
Not much on people using the drug and then becoming physically violent. Even the phrase “when it occurs” implies that it doesn’t occur very often. Where the violent crime comes in is with transporting and dealing. Ergo, the reason for it to be legalized. Eliminate the criminal aspect of marijuana and you eliminate consumers’ need to deal with the scum who commit violent crime to distribute it. It’s obvious that it’s not going to go away no matter how many fields they burn down and how many people they fine and throw into jail for possession so why not legalize it, save the headaches and stress of trying to sneak around and gather up all of the little guys just trying to get their green on and investigate all of the violent crimes committed by the bigger ones. I can see Canada’s drug problem being curtailed much sooner than the US’s ever will unless they wake up and stop this stupid “war” that they are so badly losing. If they were winning then the numbers would be going down instead of going up. Of all the money they were throwing at enforcing drug laws, you’d think there’d be a huge payoff. And actually, I don’t even advocate legalizing all drugs, but my god people, marijuana is far less harmful to the body than alcohol, causes far less violent crimes than alcohol, accounts for fewer road accidents than alcohol, has less effect on work and academics than alcohol, is less addictive than alcohol…
Why was the prohibition on alcohol lifted, but not the one on marijuana? I know the real answer to that, but all research shows again and again which one is more dangerous and yet people go to jail for smoking, but not drinking. Which one is the more dangerous Mexican import: cannabis or tequila?
Here’s another source of info about the myths behind marijuana.
This seems to take account of more factors than the government report although I’m sure there’s spin to it to some degree, but it addresses a few of the errors that the presidential report (the first link) makes.
I took botany my junior year of college which covered drugs to an extent. Some of the things said in this site remind me of what I was told such as, it would take a bale of cannabis to overdose on THC. A far greater amount than what it takes for fatal alcohol poisoning.
[quote]Ladies and gentlemen, dangermouse has the panacea to violent crime: don’t smoke pot.
[/quote]
Whooo…
If you had read my passage properly, you would find that I am talking more about hard drugs than cannabis. I am also refering to Bill Hicks’ ignorant comment that “what I put into my body is your fucking business.”
I am not condeming YOU personally, but when I am told it’s non of my business and it clearly is, then I will take issue. In this case, it’s the arrogance factor that pisses me off more than the drugs issue itself.
[quote]Here’s a thought, dangermouse. If drugs were legal, most of those problems you went on about would be resolved or at least reduced to a great extent. Government-regulated drugs are less likely to be tainted the way ones bought off the street illegally are. Criminals would lose money because people would be more likely to buy legal drugs than illegal ones and, if the government would for once be smart instead of greedy, they could undercut dealers so that there would an even further incentive against buying from dealers: price. By regulating it, they could make a profit off of it. Granted not the same profit as what they get in confiscating money and fines and legal fees, but it would at least be going directly into their pockets. They could charge a sin tax on it like they do with tobacco products. They could slap a legal age on it be it 16, 18, or 21 to keep it out of the hands of children. They could control the farms on which it’s grown. They could put a surgeon general’s warning on it for what ever they think it does to people. They could even come up with a catchy abbreviation just for driving while high…hey, I know: DWH. They could say, “Fuck William Randolph Hearst and his descendants. Hemp is a much better product than wood fiber and cotton.” and make money on that as it’s less taxing on soil than cotton and tobacco and regrows quickly unlike tree forests. They can even have Joe Platypus as the spokesmascot…it’s cute, it’s a mammal, it has a phallic-shaped nose, and it’s even funnier when on the other side of a lit fattie.
But oh, no. The tobacco industry, the paper industry, the lumber industry, the pharmeceutical industry, and every other industry that stands a chance to lose their tight grip on the government’s balls will make sure that drugs are kept illegal, that murderers can keep jacking up prices and mix in poisons to make 3 oz feel like 7 oz, that people will keep stealing to fuel their habits, that kids will sneak around their parents backs and keep secrets from them…okay, nothing will stop that from happening …, that tax dollars are wasted on useless, ineffective war on drugs programs, that police forces will be strained because they are chasing after thousands of people smoking pot and crack rather than the few people who are actually running the drug rings and taking care of all the crimes related to these drug rings, that prisons will be overcrowded with drug misdemeanors while rapists, murderers, and child molesters get only a few months in jail and serve the rest of their time in the community to make room for more potheads…
Nice to know where your support lies. Emphasis on the the word “lies”.[/quote]
Earlier on is thread, I said just this. So where’s your argument?
Every day, just to make a living in the modern world we have to use water, drive a car, use items made from rainforests. But we have to survive. But by buying drugs, we are inflicting direct damage on our own societies.
If drugs were legal, then it wouldn’t affect me. And then I couldn’t give a shit what the hell you stuffed down your neck.
Bill Hicks is an ignorant wanker. My last post was why I think that if you agree with his quote, you are an ignorant wanker too, regardless of whether you use drugs or not.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a mamby pamby do-gooder but when it comes to ignorant and arrogant idiots I have a tendancy to RAGE
I dunno, when it is all said and done there’s nothing quite like icing up your Graphics Bong, loading it up with a bit of the cripple green, and burning that bad bad boy down.
God I miss roadtrips along the california coast. 
What DM is trying to say is that when you buy cannabis you are creating a demand and thereby indirectly contributing to the incidence of crimes that are associated with supplying it. It’s a fair point.
DM does say that he supports legalisation of cannabis, presumably because it would reduce the rates of certain kinds of crime. I think he is right.
Hot off the presses story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … rijuana_dc .
Yeah, I know, it can’t be true.
Bassman, most of this stuff you’ve posted I agree with so far - I think some smokers have a tendency to get defensive because they’re used to hearing the “marijuana is evil” line more than “marijuana is a danger to health”, and thus when its use is criticized they tend to leap toward the former rather than the latter.
But that last article you linked? That doesn’t even say anything.
Kids are six times more likely to be treated for marijuana abuse than other hard drugs? All that says is that marijuana’s more easily available than other drugs. Doesn’t say anything about the marijuana itself. It does say that 1) some parents aren’t paying enough attention and 2) dealers are scum. But we already knew all of that.
And the whole thing about kids getting damaged by it? I have no doubt they are. Weed affects the brain, their brains are still developing, so no doubt it messes them up. This just sounds to me like another argument for legalization and regulation - if it was legal and controlled like cigarettes, only available to buy by those, say, over 18, then it would be much easier to stop kids getting it in the first place.
[quote=“Dangermouse”]Every day, just to make a living in the modern world we have to use water, drive a car, use items made from rainforests. But we have to survive. But by buying drugs, we are inflicting direct damage on our own societies.
If drugs were legal, then it wouldn’t affect me. And then I couldn’t give a shit what the hell you stuffed down your neck.[/quote]
There’s something I didn’t like about this stament, but I’m not exactly sure what. I think it has to do with the mass generalization. I’m sure there are whole societies that would be directly damaged by people not doing drugs. I don’t know much about drug trade, but I’m almost certain that their are large places on this planet that almost totally depend on drug trade.
The way you explain yourself it seems that you’re more concerned about your own well-being then that of others (which is fine), but you also argue it like you care about what happens to other people. Which is it?
And I don’t know what the hell that yahoo article was suppose to prove. If the US gave a shit about children they’d spend more money on education.
Also, if you wanna talk about drugs and whack side effects, what about all of the legal prescriptions drugs there are and all the negative effects they can have on a person. I don’t care if they’re prescribed by a doctor. Why is ok for someone else to decide what ill effects are ok in exchange for positive effects and you yourself can not.
I hate the way that article acts like they care about people. When I was medicated in the US (prescription meds), NO ONE had a problem with me walking around like a zombie drooling with no motivation, it was actually a GOOD thing (in the doc’s eyes).
Anyway, I think MJ is better then alchohol (which would you want, an alchoholic dad or a pot head dad?), better then a lot of prescription drugs and DOES NOT cause any harm. MJ doesn’t kill people, people kill people.
If you wanna talk about indirect harm I think that’s silly. Are people bad for (unknowingly) wearing sweatshop made clothes, eating tuna that killed a bunch of dolphions, eating at Mc Donalds 
etc. etc.
Interesting that you use the word unknowingly. What if you do it knowingly?
At least if you are aware of the indirect harm you are causing you can make an informed choice. I know, for example, that when I eat an occasional Big Mac I am indirectly contributing to the destruction of rainforests.
Many human activities cause harm to a great or lesser extent but we make choices based on whether we admit that we are contributing to the problem and on whether we really give a damn or not.
When we do do something that causes indirect harm we usually:
(a) deny it flat out
(b) try to explain it away
(c) laugh, shrug our shoulders and say, “That’s just silly!”
It works for a lot of people. I know it works for me whenever I tuck into a BigMac, eat a tuna sandwich and roll up a fat one (in my student days!)
[quote]Quote:
What business is it of yours what I do, buy, read, see or take into my body as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet.
This would be true if you grew your own, perhaps. But the fact is that drugs are sources of crime and exploitation, as is pornography. You may not be harming anyone directly, but because of your desire, indirectly many lives are affected, many in a bad way.[/quote]
So make all drugs legal, regulate and tax them. Most of the problems would go away. You’d still have some health issues, as you do with niocotine, but use the tax to pay for these.
Brian
[quote=“Tetsuo”]Bassman, most of this stuff you’ve posted I agree with so far - I think some smokers have a tendency to get defensive because they’re used to hearing the “marijuana is evil” line more than “marijuana is a danger to health”, and thus when its use is criticized they tend to leap toward the former rather than the latter.
But that last article you linked? That doesn’t even say anything.
Kids are six times more likely to be treated for marijuana abuse than other hard drugs? All that says is that marijuana’s more easily available than other drugs. Doesn’t say anything about the marijuana itself. It does say that 1) some parents aren’t paying enough attention and 2) dealers are scum. But we already knew all of that.
And the whole thing about kids getting damaged by it? I have no doubt they are. Weed affects the brain, their brains are still developing, so no doubt it messes them up. This just sounds to me like another argument for legalization and regulation - if it was legal and controlled like cigarettes, only available to buy by those, say, over 18, then it would be much easier to stop kids getting it in the first place.[/quote]
Dude, I dunno, I was reading fark.com and it just jumped out at me. It’s not news, it’s fark.
I used unknowingly becuase people usually doesn’t know the path ones clothes (or weed) has traveled and usually don’t take the time to care. My point is that it’s not the drug itself that’s causing the problems, it’s the people (users, sellers, government, etc.). I’m not trying to deny, explain or laugh anything off (well maybe explain). With weed a person could be socially concious about his purchase (ask about where it came from and only buy organic home-grown), but most people with all things (not just drugs) don’t. It’s a problem with a lot of things (food, clothes, operating systems 
, etc.)
Also, how can we even know if drugs add more harm then good (in a global sense)?
I wouldn’t try answering this question (for positive or negative).
Crack rock, Big Macs and Nike gear are all products of peoples desire. So who do you blame?
Another question, what’s worse, natures natural advertisement (I make you feel good, smoke me ) or marketing exec’s dooping someone into liking something (bah dah dah dah daaaaah I’M LOVIN’ IT!)?
I have the privellage of witnessing what (hard) drugs does on society. It’s not about me.
The reason I posted my retort is because of Richardm’s Bill Hicks’ quote that it’s “none of my fucking busioness” if he takes drugs.
But because drugs largely form the society in which we live, I’m afraid that if you buy drugs it affects me directly, whether you believe or agree with it or not.
Give me one reason why it is not any of my business? By purchasing drugs, you have aided in funding crime on myself and other innocent people.
I’m not arguing about whether drugs should ne legal or not. I’m not concerned whether you take them or not. But it is pretty ignorant for people to say that it is none of my fucking business, because it is.
I take issue with this quote or concept.
Can anyone give me a reason why it’s not my business??
Of course it’s your business.
Just like politics (voting!), environmental issues, poverty, unemployment, and whole crap load of other things are your business. They SHOULD be everyone’s business. And because they should be everyone’s business, we are all entitled to our own idea of what constitutes this “business” and of what approaches we should use, as a society, to address these “businesses.”
In other words, I respect your opinion because you have offered it.
But I (and others, obviously) do not agree with it.
This thread was brought to you buy the letter “Bong”
Boooong
And the number
You’re so messed up
The number… “fuckyou”! The number “fuckyou”!
Bye kids! Bye!
Sesame Street theme plays
And Dangermouse, please let us all know everytime you have sex. We think you may be doing harm to society.
I’m trying to think of a witty reply…hang on…
I think the majority of us are in agreement that if cannabis were legalized in more places or at least decriminalized, such as our home countries, the billions of dollars (at least in the US) that is being thrown at punishing people for choosing to smoke it (or eat it, or drink it, or bong it…) could be put to better use such as for education.
Here are some websites for a thought of how ridiculous the so-called “war on drugs” has gotten:
The stories of people who have been arrested in relation to marijuana possession or trafficking
november.org/thewall/Wall-index.html
Some statistics found (and ignored) by the US government:
it seems like i go through phases with smoking. occasionally, for a month i’ll smoke once every couple of days… but then occasionally, for a month, i won’t smoke at all.
On the plus side, I find it relaxes me when im overly stressed, and puts me to sleep quite nicely when im SO overly stressed that i can’t actually fall asleep. Also, its alot of fun to get stoned and goofy with close friends, and with any luck, proceed to promptly commence a good 45 minute laugh-and-giggle-a-thon.
On the negative side, when I smoke too often, i get increasing mood swings, and sometimes I even find myself getting more prone to bouts of depression. It also makes me really, really sleepy and silly the next morning for about 5 hours or 3 lattes. Somewhat like a hangover, but minus the feelings of sicklyness and the headaches, adding feelings of slowness and brainfarting and sleepyness(as mentioned above).
When I come to Taiwan in about 20 days, I plan to stop smoking pot completely. In Canada, i feel comfortable smoking, as I know that if i get caught smoking a spliff in a park by the police, the worse that could possibly happen at this point is a $100 fine. Which, by the way, has never happened. I’m not that familiar with laws in Taiwan, and frankly i don’t want to have to become familiar with them at any point throughout my year out there. I’d rather just err on the side of caution and stick to wine and beer for abit
On second thought. . .
POST DELETED
Dangermouse, you’re wrong. It’s none of your damn business.