The h > sh shift from ancient Chinese to modern Mandarin

The h sound in middle Chinese shifted to sh in modern Mandarin (also attested to by cognates in Japanese and Korean). Sound shifts tend to recur the same way across the world. But I hadn’t encountered any languages wherein this happened, until now. Oddly, the shift appears to have happened in reverse happened when Akkadian evolved into West Semitic languages (Aramaic, Hebrew, Arabic).


I asked Chat-GPT which language is older:

Is Akkadian older or Aramaic?

ChatGPT

Akkadian is generally considered to be older than Aramaic. Akkadian is an ancient Semitic language that was spoken in Mesopotamia, primarily in the region of ancient Sumer and Babylon, dating back to the third millennium BCE. It is one of the earliest known written languages and was used in the cuneiform script on clay tablets for various administrative, religious, and literary purposes.

Aramaic, on the other hand, is also an ancient Semitic language but emerged later than Akkadian. Aramaic is believed to have originated in the 11th century BCE and was spoken in a wide geographic area, including parts of modern-day Syria, Iraq, Iran, and beyond. It became a lingua franca in the ancient Near East and was widely used for trade, diplomacy, and communication among different peoples.

So, to summarize, Akkadian predates Aramaic in terms of its historical attestation and use.

Or, maybe it was “h” in Proto-Semitic and only Akkadian shifted.

Is Akkadian not East Semitic? A completely different branch.

Can you give some examples for this change in Middle Chinese? I can’t think of any. Unless you are talking about the case of

g/q > k > kh > h > ∅
g/q > k > kh > h > ɕ > s

An example of the top route would be 胡 *[ɡ]ˤa > ko (Japanese) > ho (Korean/Vietnamese) > oo (Taigi)

An example of the bottom route would be 兇 *qʰ(r)oŋ > kū (Japanese) > hiong/hyung/hung (Taigi/Korean/Vietnamese) > xiong

The process of palatalization also transformed many words that used to start with t or d into s in later languages.

Yes, but since it’s older that generally means it’s closer to proto-Semitic.

But you’re right, I incorrectly said Akkadian “evolved.”

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Are you kidding? Just about everything.

Also, is there a reason you’re comparing Sino-Xenic vocabulary and not Mandarin?

希望 hibang (Holo) > xiwang
鞋子haiye (Hakka) > xiezi
香港 hyonggang (Holo) > xianggang
兄弟 hingdai (Cantonese) > xiongdi

Yeah, you didn’t write x or ɕ though, you just used sh and followed that up with Modern Chinese. It’s kind of hard to guess you meant ɕ.

In that case, you are talking about the bottom route of g/q > k > kh > h > ɕ > s

I find it difficult to imagine ɕ or ʃ could turn into h, so I would guess in the case of Semitic languages, the ones with h have the more conservative feature.

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Umdersrood, I don’t know linguistic markers.

Did Mandarin come from Middle Chinese? I always thought languages like Hokkien and Cantonese were the ones that came from it.

And yes, a lot of sh sounds in Mandarin are h in Cantonese.

They all did. Hokkien and Cantonese are just closer to Middle Chinese, because Mandarin got bastardized by Manchus and Mongols.

We know this because Tang Dynasty poems rhyme in Hokkien and Cantonese, and don’t in Mandarin.

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And how do we know that Mandarin came from Middle Chinese? Just curious.

Sinitic languages having roughly the same syntax with virtually all shared vocabulary suggests a common origin, and Mandarin being a young language.

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When the Ming empire collapsed, the Guanhua (Chinese koine) at the time was based on the Nanjing accent, and that was evident in Matteo Ricci, Ferdinand Verbiest and Johann Adam Schall von Bell’s records.

The current form of Mandarin wasn’t widely used in Beijing’s outer city even by 1815 when Robert Morrison wrote his Chinese dictionary.

So the current form of Mandarin probably didn’t gain its current status until the 1850s. Based on that, the current form of Mandarin is probably at most 200 years old, and grew out of the Manchu-Old Pekingese pidgin adopted by the Manchus living in the Inner city.

I wrote a much more detailed post on this subject here:

Haizi is also Shanghainese for 鞋子 if my memory serves me well.

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The 圭 phonetic component signifies when the character was created it began with a k or g sound, and sounded the same as 攜, 奚, 佳 at one time.

Learn Akkadian

Apparently Akkadian uses ideograms borrowed from Sumerian, in addition to its phonetic system. Like Japanese.