The Iran Thread

Politics International Politics
81

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Some Iran information.

[quote]A Web Witness to Iranian Brutality
By Anne Applebaum, Friday, January 20, 2006; Page A17

Enter the Web site: abfiran.org/ . Click on “Omid: A Memorial,” and then “Search.” Enter a name – or a religion, a nationality, an alleged crime. One by one, the stories will transfix you.

Atefeh Rajabi , a 16-year-old schoolgirl: Executed by hanging in Neka, Aug. 15, 2004, for “acts incompatible with chastity.”

Azizullah Gulshani : Executed by the state in Mashad , April 29, 1982, for “promoting the dirty, non-Islamic sect of Bahaism.”

Ali Akbar Tabatabai : Executed by extrajudicial shooting in Maryland, July 23, 1980, for an “unknown revolutionary offense.”

Many of the entries are frustrating. There is “no information on this case,” or else the information – from official sources, exile groups, human rights groups – is sparse. Dates are missing, photographs are missing, and although the site has English and Farsi links to nearly 10,000 political victims of the Islamic Republic of Iran, thousands more haven’t even been entered yet.[/quote][/quote]

So what’s new?

Where were you when this kind of thing was going on in South America?

We all know this kind of thing goes on in Iran.

If so called democracy is installed after the US has flattened and destroyed the country nothing much will change. (But I don’t think it will be as easy for the US as Iraq where Saddams army was paid off not to fight. One only has to read about the Iran Iraq war to see what kind of people the Persians are). Only the faces running the place will change.

82

[quote=“cake”][quote=“TainanCowboy”]Some Iran information.

[quote]A Web Witness to Iranian Brutality
By Anne Applebaum, Friday, January 20, 2006; Page A17

Enter the Web site: abfiran.org/ . Click on “Omid: A Memorial,” and then “Search.” Enter a name – or a religion, a nationality, an alleged crime. One by one, the stories will transfix you.

Atefeh Rajabi , a 16-year-old schoolgirl: Executed by hanging in Neka, Aug. 15, 2004, for “acts incompatible with chastity.”

Azizullah Gulshani : Executed by the state in Mashad , April 29, 1982, for “promoting the dirty, non-Islamic sect of Bahaism.”

Ali Akbar Tabatabai : Executed by extrajudicial shooting in Maryland, July 23, 1980, for an “unknown revolutionary offense.”

Many of the entries are frustrating. There is “no information on this case,” or else the information – from official sources, exile groups, human rights groups – is sparse. Dates are missing, photographs are missing, and although the site has English and Farsi links to nearly 10,000 political victims of the Islamic Republic of Iran, thousands more haven’t even been entered yet.[/quote][quote=“cake”]So what’s new?[/quote]Pardon? A bit flippant, eh? Hardly a reason to toss off this story. It is “The Iran Thread” isn’t it?[quote=“cake”]Where were you when this kind of thing was going on in South America?[/quote]Since you asked, I was working in several of those countries trying to locate and halt the individuals doing those deeds. As well as their enablers. Also have more than a passing familiarity with a clinic outside of Mexico City where a lot of folks have come after their torture by those people. And another one in Minnesota. And you?

[quote=“cake”]We all know this kind of thing goes on in Iran.[/quote]…and?

[quote=“cake”]If so called democracy is installed after the US has flattened and destroyed the country nothing much will change. (But I don’t think it will be as easy for the US as Iraq where Saddams army was paid off not to fight. One only has to read about the Iran Iraq war to see what kind of people the Persians are). Only the faces running the place will change.[/quote][/quote][/quote]Quite a pregnant little paragraph. What, if anything, does it say?
Oh…wait…I remember…you don’t like Bush.
And BTW, you are making a very poorly informed comment re:“One only has to read about the Iran Iraq war to see what kind of people the Persians are.”
I suggest you familiarize your self with the difference between ‘Persian people’ and the Islamofacists who have been in control of Iran since 1980.
You might start with a briefing on Zoroastrism and move forward from there. A quick read on the B’hai faith would add some additional background. Then you might wsh to look at some current blogs coming out of Iran.
It might be of help with understanding what is happening in Iran. There will probably be a revolution there - and hopefully a re-establishment of a free society.
I happen to be an admirer of the Persian people and their historical significance in the middle east.

83

Here is a good place to start learning some of what is happening in todays Iran:

[quote]
Persian Journal
IRAN 101 - Iran & Iranian Latest News
Jan 22, 2006
Bahman Aghai Diba PhD International Law - Persian Journal

Difference between the Government And the People of Iran

Bahman Aghai Diba
The governments of the countries in the present world represent their people to varying degrees. The dictatorial systems are the least transparent regimes and you never know how much really the government does represent the people. However, in one dictatorial regime, which is in power in Iran, the distinction between the regime and the people is very clear. This distinction is important for many purposes:(rest of article at link)
iranian.ws/iran_news/publish … 2479.shtml[/quote]

84

So the Coalition of the Willing (or whatever it would like to be called) is going to educate us about the real Iran now?

If it’s anything like the stellar education they gave us about the real Iraq it should be an entertaining excursion into self-delusional extremism masquerading as humanitarian concern.

The only real questions on everyone’s mind at this point are when are the bombs going to start falling, what will the price of oil be after the Iranians close the Strait of Hormuz and will Iraq come completely apart at the seams after the neoconservatives “fix” Iran too.

85

[quote=“spook”]So the Coalition of the Willing (or whatever it would like to be called) is going to educate us about the real Iran now?

If it’s anything like the stellar education they gave us about the real Iraq it should be an entertaining excursion into self-delusional extremism masquerading as humanitarian concern.

The only real questions on everyone’s mind at this point are when are the bombs going to start falling, what will the price of oil be after the Iranians close the Strait of Hormuz and will Iraq come completely apart at the seams after the neoconservatives “fix” Iran too.[/quote]

Things have been [i]so[/i] much better in Iran since the Democrats under Jimmy Carter pulled the rug out from under the Shah back in 1978-79, right spook? So what’s [i]your[/i] solution?

86

[quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“spook”]So the Coalition of the Willing (or whatever it would like to be called) is going to educate us about the real Iran now?

If it’s anything like the stellar education they gave us about the real Iraq it should be an entertaining excursion into self-delusional extremism masquerading as humanitarian concern.

The only real questions on everyone’s mind at this point are when are the bombs going to start falling, what will the price of oil be after the Iranians close the Strait of Hormuz and will Iraq come completely apart at the seams after the neoconservatives “fix” Iran too.[/quote]

Things have been [i]so[/i] much better in Iran since the Democrats under Jimmy Carter pulled the rug out from under the Shah back in 1978-79, right spook? So what’s [i]your[/i] solution?[/quote]

Fighting extremism with extremism only begets more extremism. If the Coalition of Knuckleheads hasn’t learned that themselves in the last three years though they’re pretty much incorrigible.

First thing is to get our extremists out of power and put rational adults in charge who will work with the rational Iranian majority to get their extremists out of power.

Pushing any adversary’s back to the wall and insisting on double standards is an inherently unworkable, unstable strategy which will only polarize and inflame.

87

[quote=“spook”]
Fighting extremism with extremism only begets more extremism. If the Coalition of Knuckleheads hasn’t learned that themselves in the last three years though they’re pretty much incorrigible.

First thing is to get our extremists out of power and put rational adults in charge who will work with the rational Iranian majority to get their extremists out of power.

Pushing any adversary’s back to the wall and insisting on double standards is an inherently unworkable, unstable strategy which will only polarize and inflame.[/quote]

Ah…the “Hello Kitty School of Diplomacy”…

88

Jimmy Carter’s flaccid, Pollyana foreign policy was the “Hello Kitty School of Diplomacy.”

Going from Jimmy Carter to George Bush’s “Sheriff Darth Vader” foreign policy though is like going from the frying pan into the fire.

If those are the only two “solutions” we’re capable of envisioning we might as well just kiss our collective asses goodbye now.

89

[quote=“spook”]
If those are the only two “solutions” we’re capable of envisioning we might as well just kiss our collective asses goodbye now.[/quote]

Exactly. Do not kiss them. Do not kill them. Just give them a beating now.

Sanctions maybe for now, later military force to stop nuclear weapons. I wonder what is so difficult for many people (not you spook, I am thinking of my countrymen now) to understand that a maniac religious regime having nuclear weapons is one of the last things you can want on this earth.

90

[quote=“bob_honest”][quote=“spook”]
If those are the only two “solutions” we’re capable of envisioning we might as well just kiss our collective asses goodbye now.[/quote]

Exactly. Do not kiss them. Do not kill them. Just give them a beating now.

Sanctions maybe for now, later military force to stop nuclear weapons. I wonder what is so difficult for many people (not you spook, I am thinking of my countrymen now) to understand that a maniac religious regime having nuclear weapons is one of the last things you can want on this earth.[/quote]

Sanctions are good for the press and stiffing the working folks in the target country. With Iran’s case I think the best methods would be: a continuing policy of diplomatic encirclement, internal disruption, a solid attempt to keep Israel in formation, a well-thought propganada assault, and the delivery of a large sum to some small country like Yousepukeistan. Have their “special” farces take out the nuke farms! Start a massive internal ideological war, all confined within religious grounds.
And finally, Sap Their Precious Bodily Fluids. :wink:

91

[quote=“TheGingerMan”]
And finally, Sap Their Precious Bodily Fluids. :wink:[/quote]

As a member of the German T5 special force ( :wink: ) the part of sapping body fluids always seemed to be the nicest part of war to me.

The rest of your plans sounds cunnigly well also

92

Something else to factor into your “cunning” plan.

Apparently the “master plan” is to tell Iran it can have neither nuclear weapons or a nuclear energy program but it’s okay for any U.S. ally in the region such as Israel to have both.

Only an utter fool would expect such a one-sided approach to work.

The only real solution is an even-handed approach which insists that the Middle East be an entirely nuclear weapons free zone with all nations submitting equally to intrusive inspections of their nuclear energy facilities to ensure no weapons of mass destruction are being spun off.

93

Right, demillitarize damn Israel. Damned vioent country surrounded by islands of peace. Let them build a monument for Arafat and his favourite servant right in Tel Aviv. Which should be renamed to something sounding more original I guess.

Would that be the continuation of your suggestions? :smiling_imp:

94

[quote=“spook”]Something else to factor into your “cunning” plan.

Apparently the “master plan” is to tell Iran it can have neither nuclear weapons or a nuclear energy program but it’s okay for any U.S. ally in the region such as Israel to have both.

Only an utter fool would expect such a one-sided approach to work.

The only real solution is an even-handed approach which insists that the Middle East be an entirely nuclear weapons free zone with all nations submitting equally to intrusive inspections of their nuclear energy facilities to ensure no weapons of mass destruction are being spun off.[/quote]

spook, I realize you might have missed the news while working on your degree at HKSD but the Muslims have been screaming for years that they were going to destroy Israel. The Israelis have not called for the extermination of any Muslim nation. You might want to include this little known fact in your next termpaper for Dr. Kitty.

[quote]Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

“The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world,” the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.

“As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran’s revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

“The Islamic umma (community) will not allow its historic enemy to live in its heartland,” he said in the fiery speech that centred on a “historic war between the oppressor and the world of Islam”.

“Anyone who signs a treaty which recognises the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world,” Ahmadinejad said.

“Any leaders in the Islamic umma who recognise Israel face the wrath of their own people.”[/quote]

english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ … 9957EA.htm

95

CS, please desist.

The Muslims in and around Isreal are oppressed and therefore deserve to say random, insane, warish things.

Please be sensitive and donate. :rainbow:

96

[quote=“jdsmith”]CS, please desist.

The Muslims in and around Isreal are oppressed and therefore deserve to say random, insane, warish things.

Please be sensitive and donate. :rainbow:[/quote]

I would be happy to donate several Arc Light missions…any suggestions where they might be delivered?

97

[quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“jdsmith”]CS, please desist.

The Muslims in and around Isreal are oppressed and therefore deserve to say random, insane, warish things.

Please be sensitive and donate. :rainbow:[/quote]

I would be happy to donate several Arc Light missions…any suggestions where they might be delivered?[/quote]

Hang on. Let me check Google Earth.

98

Good. Now that we’re all clear on why Iran shouldn’t be allowed to have nuclear weapons you should next ask yourselves how well your strategy of dictating one-sided terms to Iran will likely fare after your recent experiences in Iraq trying to do just that went.

99

Hmmmm…where is Saddam Hussein today? I wonder what he’d say?

100

[quote=“spook”]
The only real solution is an even-handed approach which insists that the Middle East be an entirely nuclear weapons free zone with all nations submitting equally to intrusive inspections of their nuclear energy facilities to ensure no weapons of mass destruction are being spun off.[/quote]

Rubbish. If we made the Middle East a Nuke Free Zone, it would be a wild scramble for power, with unlimited funds. Sometimes the Status Quo is the next best thing to an imperfect ideal. Wiping the slate clean would be like reveresing cars to 1948 and saying GO! Nobody would benefit, except arms merchants.

Iran must be brought in line. It’s that simple. Even Russia thinks so. The Question is: Can the Issue Be Resolved Before the Israelis Act On Their Own?

The Force Be Willing, Iran will boil over from within when the sanctions hit.
Isn’t History Great! :slight_smile: