Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism; Lamas are not Buddhists

Arts & Sciences Religion & Spirituality
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I visited them yesterday! (I had to go to Yuanshan anyway.) It’s a Chinese Buddhist organization called Zhengjue. Here is their English website (including stuff about Tibetan Buddhism): a202.idv.tw/English/Book999.htm

Their center stocks (publishes?) several books against Tibetan Buddhism, which offends them because it claims to be Buddhist, but is actually full of tantric sex. The books contain many pages of glossy, garish images of (13-deity) Vajrabhairava / Yamantaka (大威德金剛, Da weide jingang), the “Adamantine Shiva” and "Destroyer of Death, with consort Vajravetali, the “Adamantine Ghoul,” along with other highest yoga tantra images. The tone is shrill–a bit like reading Jack Chick tracts about Catholicism–and I wonder who the rhetoric was intended to persuade. I came away with the impression that the Dalai Lama goes around seducing other men’s wives. The argument of the books focuses on the following points:

  1. The texts and iconography of Tibetan Buddhism emphasize sexual imagery, often of an antinomian nature. In fact, one of the implications of the Vajrayana teaching of universal compassion, is that one is supposed to have sex with everybody.

  2. Tibetan Buddhism has experienced a number of sex scandals, in Taiwan as well as overseas.

These books assume the first point to lead to the second. Most people who have attended Tibetan Buddhist events will be aware that they are not orgies, and may have heard teachings to the effect that ordinary people are not allowed to have tantric sex (their citation of some tantric couple on YouTube is probably unfair), and that monks and nuns in particular are enjoined to keep their vows, and wait until they’re dead so they can do it in some Pure Land. HOWEVER, the case of Kalu Rinpoche and June Campbell indicates not only that at least one high lama thought otherwise, but that at the highest, most secret levels of Tibetan Buddhism, such practices are generally accepted to be valid: anandainfo.com/tantric_robes.html

So, who speaks for Tibetan Buddhism? Do its problems stem from its essential, defining teachings? How can anyone know what those teachings ARE, anyway? Of course Chinese / Taiwanese Buddhism has had its share of scandals as well–are these less integral to it than those of Tibetan Buddhism? Such are the questions that arise.

22

hmm, Tibetan Buddhism, eh?

23

bro, I be down with any religion that preaches “sex with everybody”. :sunglasses:

Religions bestow power on leaders. Leaders inevitably abuse that power and subvert it to grant themselves perks such as sex with young boys (the Catholic Church) or the making of passes at Mia Farrow (the Maharishi aka Sexy Sadie).

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My compliment to Zlaod that he made an effort to visit Zhengjue (the True Enlightenment and Education Foundation 正覺) and find out the background of the postings. That was exactly the same case with regard to the discovery about the true colors of Tibetan Tantric Buddhism. Based on Zhengjue long-term research and having verified with the sutras of orthodox Buddhism, we found that Tibetan “Buddhism” is essentially not orthodox Buddhism. Besides, Tibetan “Buddhism” has borrowed the Buddhist terms from orthodox Buddhism to cover up their tantric practice of Hinduism.
The key issue here regarding Tibetan Tantric “Buddhism” is that its doctrine explicitly stated, “Copulation tantra is an absolute must for Tibetan Buddhist practitioners.”
So any sexual misconduct committed by lamas were not isolated incidents, but are expected and inevitable. They are posing serious danger for the society, especially for many innocent females who could be our family members or dear friends. This is not merely a religious issue but a social issue.

25

[quote=“Buddhism”]My compliment to Zlaod that he made an effort to visit Zhengjue (the True Enlightenment and Education Foundation 正覺) and find out the background of the postings. That was exactly the same case with regard to the discovery about the true colors of Tibetan Tantric Buddhism. Based on Zhengjue long-term research and having verified with the sutras of orthodox Buddhism, we found that Tibetan “Buddhism” is essentially not orthodox Buddhism. Besides, Tibetan “Buddhism” has borrowed the Buddhist terms from orthodox Buddhism to cover up their tantric practice of Hinduism.
The key issue here regarding Tibetan Tantric “Buddhism” is that its doctrine explicitly stated, “Copulation tantra is an absolute must for Tibetan Buddhist practitioners.”
So any sexual misconduct committed by lamas were not isolated incidents, but are expected and inevitable. They are posing serious danger for the society, especially for many innocent females who could be our family members or dear friends. This is not merely a religious issue but a social issue.[/quote]

A quickie Internet search reveals that the Tantric element of Tibetan Buddhism is not the mainstream or widely practiced. Hence, some other Buddhists slagging the Tibetans for this seems very much like inter-faith rivalry. Your other comments above support that. Whether there is also a political aspect as well - a “Blue meets red” thing, is unknown to me but could make sense in today’s political climate.

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How many angels can have tantric sex on the head of a pin?

Now that’s a relevant question for a small-dick man, I tell you.

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[quote=“Buddhism”]My compliment to Zlaod that he made an effort to visit Zhengjue (the True Enlightenment and Education Foundation 正覺) and find out the background of the postings. That was exactly the same case with regard to the discovery about the true colors of Tibetan Tantric Buddhism. Based on Zhengjue long-term research and having verified with the sutras of orthodox Buddhism, we found that Tibetan “Buddhism” is essentially not orthodox Buddhism. Besides, Tibetan “Buddhism” has borrowed the Buddhist terms from orthodox Buddhism to cover up their tantric practice of Hinduism.
The key issue here regarding Tibetan Tantric “Buddhism” is that its doctrine explicitly stated, “Copulation tantra is an absolute must for Tibetan Buddhist practitioners.”
So any sexual misconduct committed by lamas were not isolated incidents, but are expected and inevitable. They are posing serious danger for the society, especially for many innocent females who could be our family members or dear friends. This is not merely a religious issue but a social issue.[/quote]

You seem to be part of 正覺. Anyways, in my knowledge, no religion allows exploiting other human beings for spiritual (or material) gains. If somebody does it, s/he does it for personal benefits. That said, every religion has faulty and selfish practitioners. They are making fool of ‘others’ but these ‘others’ are ready to be fooled if not by them than somebody else. Why not raise a campaign for awareness of sexual harrasment (anywhere) instead of pulling the leg of one whole religion?

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[quote=“urodacus”]How many angels can have tantric sex on the head of a pin?

[/quote]

Shouldn’t that be the point of a pin?

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You raise a good point there, TG. Though a common usage today is “head of a pin”, the original was “point of a needle”…

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Logical thinking.
Please do bear in mind that the Buddha was a prince and a future king at his time when he determined to renounce his position in pursuit of the truth of life.
To be honest, Buddhists are the most ambitious sort of individuals. Why should everyone face death sooner or later? Buddhism is studying the truth after death and before birth, because 90 years of human life is much too short in comparison to the existence of the Earth. There are so many things we wish to fulfill.
Confucius once said, “I am willing to die in the evening if I could have studied the path of truth in the morning! 朝聞道夕死可矣！” This refers to the essence of Buddhism, so Buddhists are seeking for the answers to eternity!
That’s why the true Buddhist knowledge is called “supra-mundane wisdom,” or “prajna of true reality,” and it has nothing to do worldly power, position, politic, money, sex and fame etc. Buddhism is beyond all these.
In fact, the genuine Buddha dharma is generally categorized into the Liberation-Way and the Buddhahood-Way, but the former is actually included in the latter. The practice and realization of the Liberation-Way are achieved through eliminating both self-view and self-attachment. (I do apologize for using these Buddhist terms, if possible, I’ll explain more in detail in the future, but do not wish to bore you all right now.) In other words, Buddhism is about how to attain the wisdom to the gate of eternity (enlightenment) and to be freed from all the attachments in this world.

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This is not inter-faith rivalry, it’s a sort of infringement of religious property (please correct my wordings, I don’t know how to express it properly.) Lamas can call themselves as Lamaism, Tibetan Tantric Sect, or Kama sutra center or anything else and have their way of teachings, this is a free world. But they have been under the guise of Buddhism, and hundred percent mislead the general public.
Some of you may have seen some Tibetan Tantric couple-Thangkas and couple-buddhas.
Now, let us have a look at what the Dalai Lama claims:
(1)……but only through a special practice where one controls the movement of the regenerative fluid in sexual intercourse, both for men and women. (Francisco J. Varela, Sleeping, Dreaming and Dying, Wisdom Publications, Boston, 1997, pp.43-44.)

(2) For instance, there’s a great difference between the movement of the regenerative fluids for two individuals engaged in ordinary sexual intercourse as opposed to a highly realized male yogi and female yogini who are engaged in sexual intercourse. (Francisco J. Varela, Sleeping, Dreaming and Dying, Wisdom Publications, Boston, 1997, pp.171-172.)

(3) According to the tantric explanation, when we speak of a blissful experience here, we are referring to the bliss that is derived from the emission of the element of regenerative fluid, another type of bliss which is derived from the movement of that element within the channels, and a third type of bliss which is derived through the state of immutable bliss. In tantric practice it is the two latter types of bliss that are utilized for realizing emptiness. Because of the great significance of utilizing bliss in the realization of emptiness we find that many of the meditational deities in Highest Yoga Tantra are in union with a consort. (HH the Dalai Lama, A Survey of the Paths of Tibetan Buddhism, PDF edition, p.27, retrieved from lamayeshe.com/index.php?sect=article&id=421, 2010/01/10)

(4) A practitioner who has firm compassion and wisdom can make use of sexual intercourse in the spiritual path as a technique for strongly focusing consciousness and manifesting the fundamental innate mind of clear light. (Dalai Lama XIV/translated and edited by Jeffrey Hopkins, Mind of Clear Light: Advice on living well and dying consciously, Atria Books, 2003, p.176.)

(5) According to the New translation Schools, at a certain high point in the practice of Secret Mantra, the mantrika engages in special practices such as making use of a sexual partner, hunting animals, and so forth. (The XIV Dalai Lama, Kindness, Clarity, & Insight, Snow Lion Publications, 1988, p.219.)

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Around 14th century, the most honorable ancient patriarch Tsongkhapa of the Gelug Sect (commonly called Yellow Hat Sect) in Tibetan Lamaism, in his book The Great Exposition of Secret Mantra, it claims:
… If the empowerment is transmitted to a female, one should make her know the vajra place refers to the lotus. This is like the wondrous favor, as in the third empowerment of The Orally Taught Treatise says: ”Because of the vajra union with the realm of infinite space, the bliss arises in one who has the correct eye. If one can be away from the joy of desire during the joy of orgasm, one sees the middle that is away from the two sides, and it becomes stiff. The lotus emptiness and the vajra mani are jewels; the lotus and the mani are joined together in vajra cross-legged sitting posture. …The instant wondrous wisdom becomes manifest on that condition. One receives the wisdom for eight double-hours (sixteen hours) a day, a whole day, a month, a year, an eon or a thousand eons.“ While receiving the empowerment, one enjoys a short-term pleasure. While in actual practice, one enjoys the pleasure for eight double-hours a day, etc. (Tsongkhapa, Extended Treatise on the Progression of the Esoteric Path, translated into Chinese by dharma-master Fazun, Wondrous Favor Publishing Co., 1986, p.384.)

This is purely religious discussions, nothing personal or a political motivation. I even paid two hundred guilders (before Euro’s time) to attend the Dalai Lama’s gathering in the Hague years ago before I came to Taiwan, because I was also charmed by the Tibetan myths and most of all “Buddhism.”
I hereby provide more internet info for your reference, find it out yourselves, you don’t have to believe me. On the other hand, why should I waste my precious sleeping hours and tell lies to you and have your precious time to read all the nonsense? Buddhism is a serious issue!
chinaexpat.com/2007/03/26/ti … -sex.html/
factsanddetails.chttp://www.well … _Press.htm
well.com/conf/media/SF_Free_Press/index.html
om/china.php?itemid=213&catid=6&subcatid=35#12
enlighten.org.tw/trueheart_en/4
lacrossetribune.com/news/local/a … 002e0.html

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Yes, there is a tradition of Tantric Buddhism in Tibetan Buddhism, but it is not the common practice in Tibetan Buddhism, whatever references you can drag up.

So, you can complain against certain non-mainstream forms of Tibetan Buddhism, but this is not the same things as saying that all Tibetan Buddhism or most Tibetan Buddhism contains these practices.

Even within those parts of TB that are focused on the Tantric side, you have presented no evidence that the sexual element is usually or often coerced.

Basically, you need to fine tune your argument so that it is not against Tibetan Buddhism but against people who abuse it for sexual reasons.

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Hippies will be hippies, and hippie leaders will be hippie leaders whether they have long hair or shaved heads. Shagging the gullible and naive under the auspices of pseudo-liberation and “enlightenment” is their monumental legacy. Give peace a chance. :thumbsup:

35

Tantrism is an important part of many religions. Human beings have explored several different means for enlightenment. Sex is one of them. So what? I read many years back that a Hindu tantric follower has achieved higher level in meditation if s/he can meditate without distraction even while having sex (including during orgasm). This must need a person to be completely detached from worldly pleasures. Detachment is the center part of every branch of Hinduism. Buddhism has been originated in India. If it has a branch similar to Hinduism, its not surprising; in fact expected. If you see different avatars of Buddha around China, taiwan etc, you can see how similar these are to Hindu deities/Gods.
As jimipresley mentioned; gullible and naive will be exploited… if not by tiebtian buddhism than by somebody else or some general public. Its completely wrong to blame a whole religion just because some of his followers decide to go to a different path or do something which you might think is wrong. Again, right/wrong, good/bad are all relative terms.
Buddha did not teach to hate someone. His main teaching was to love everyone. If you are carrying hatred towards anybody including tibetian tantric buddhism; you know where you stand in terms being a buddhist.

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It is really nice to know that many are interested in Buddhism.
The Buddha was a prince then, if any sexual means were indeed feasible to Buddhism cultivation, why should the Buddha renounce his status and leave his palace (for good)? He was the founder of Buddhism, and he definitely should know the best way to the ultimate goal.
I provide more info as follows:

tantrismuskritik.blogspot.com/20 … f-urn.html

downthecrookedpath-meditation-gu … iefly.html

aegis.com/news/lt/1989/LT890302.html
Buddhist Sect Alarmed by Reports that Leader Kept His AIDS a Secret

Tantric Buddhism and AIDS
rickross.com/reference/gener … al739.html

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[quote=“Buddhism”]It is really nice to know that many are interested in Buddhism.
The Buddha was a prince then, if any sexual means were indeed feasible to Buddhism cultivation, why should the Buddha renounce his status and leave his palace (for good)? He was the founder of Buddhism, and he definitely should know the best way to the ultimate goal.
I provide more info as follows:

tantrismuskritik.blogspot.com/20 … f-urn.html

downthecrookedpath-meditation-gu … iefly.html

aegis.com/news/lt/1989/LT890302.html
Buddhist Sect Alarmed by Reports that Leader Kept His AIDS a Secret

Tantric Buddhism and AIDS
rickross.com/reference/gener … al739.html[/quote]

Did Buddha ask people to abstain from sex? Yet many monks do exactly that. That is their interpretation of what Siddartha Gautama said thousands of years ago. So why is Tantric Buddhism less pure? Did Buddha say that one should not use sex to achieve spiritual enlightenment?

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And… Buddha did not start buddhism. His followers did. He never asked people to give up sex or regular life style. He never asked people to change their religion and join him. As Buddha was allowed to follow a path he felt is good for him, even though that meant suffering for his own family, in same way everyone else is allowed too, including tantric buddhism (if it exist). Sex is an important part of being human. Probably in whole big animal kingdom, we are the only ones who are not bound to seasoned need of sex to produce offspring. If sex is used as a mean for enlightenment by some, let be it. As far as fooling others is concerned, many comments above have pointed out, fooling others is not limited to tantric buddhism.

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So, masturbation’s OK, yeah?

Obviously it’s not important to me. However, a friend posited the question.

And how long does it have to last? Because I’m told it gets tiring after a while.

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Yes, the Buddha did explicitly specify “No sex” for Buddhist monks and nuns.
The Buddha had already provided an explicit reply over the monastic discipline as early as two thousand five hundred years ago. The Buddha was asked once, “Can temples be allowed to have drawings as adornments to enhance their magnificence?” The Buddha replied: “Apart from portraits of the copulation of a male and female couple, all others are allowed.” This particular incident was recorded in “Ten Recitations Vinaya.”
The Couple-Practice Tantra of “Tibetan Buddhism” actually derived from Brahman Tantrism, a primitive religion which existed in a time period earlier than the true Buddhism preached by Buddha Sakyamuni in India.This primitive religion focused on the practices of reproduction worship and semen retention. When Buddhism enters its late period of what historians called “Tantric Buddhism,” Hindu Buddhism was infiltrated by the thought of Brahmanism Tantrism. The Monasteries and temples became eroticized. Then, there came the invasion of asceticism Islamic army. The Tantric monks started to compile the “Kalachakra Tantra” and finally led to the last battle of Shangri-La (Shambhala) to quell the rival’s vain hope. Today, this battle has become a myth of Tibetan Buddhism. At that time, some Tantric monks chose to exile abroad and spread the Couple-Practice Tantra to areas like Tibet, Mongolia, Qinghai, and Yunnan. Nowadays the same situation happens, the exiled Tibetan lamas spread the Couple-Practice Tantra to the western nations and the sexual scandals of lamas have become common in Europe and America. tantrismuskritik.blogspot.com/20 … f-urn.html