[quote=“djlowballer”]No. Apple sells their customers something that “Just Works”. I sell my clients software that works. One is a marketing slogan that blatantly ignores the pages of issues with every device released. The other is something that can’t have issues or I would have my ass sued off. It is not a matter of semantics , in my field it is a very large difference.
And if you think money alone is the issue, it really isn’t. It’s the specs and software limitations that I question. All this thread aside I will probably end up owning an iPad at some point only to keep up with the latest in technology. I freelance embedded systems work occasionally and need to know what people need. The original thread was about the iPad and we were discussing it’s merits and flaws based on the current technology ecosystem. Price point is a valid consideration. If you are curious though, I had 2000$USD set aside if apple had decided to put full OS X on the iPad. If at some point in the future an iPad has a real OS on it, I will be the first to suck apple’s rich dick.
If we accept your attempt at Lazy = Poor =apple is sold at commodity prices. Then I will bite you logical game and disprove via counter-example.
Fresh off the boat English teachers with no qualifications to teach English make more than almost any local on the island. QED.[/quote]
Ok, you think Apple products are a poor value. I’m sure you’d agree, though, that somebody who develops software for a living might have have a different expectation of value than somebody who does not. At least you aren’t accusing Apple users of being lazy.
If you’re lazy in the US, then the chances are very high that you’re poor. A better counter-example might be cigarettes sold singly, or credit sold by payday lenders, but I take your point. Being poor does not necessarily imply that what’s bought is inexpensive.
In a way this whole thread is a little like eavesdropping on an argument between a Model T owner, who had to hand-crank his engine to start it, and a horse owner about who has the best ride. In the end, of course, they’re both irrelevant because a keyed ignition made both Model T’s and horses obsolete. In the personal computing marketplace, Apple may just pull the same trick.
As for the geek talk, well Apple has my money. When I pick up a hammer I don’t expect to have to jump on a wood lathe and make a new handle or forge a new head. I want to hit a freakin’ nail. Ditto with computers. When I want them to work, I sure as shit don’t want to tinker with anything. if if it does require tinkering, and since I strictly stick to Apple that’s a merciful rarity, then the pimply faced dweebs in the shop do that for sod all cash that I can tell, just parts.
And here’s another thing I’ll throw out. Right now I’m sitting in my thong in front of my wee iBook G4, with the wife’s Thinkpad jobbie opposite on the desk. There’s a big-ass Dell PC thing on the floor that has no monitor (can you make one for me? Thought not. ) None of those things cost over NT$15,000. So if they’re fucked can you fix it for, say NT$10k? No? Oh well, I’ll just buy a new one. No problemo. You see how it works?
The fact of the matter is that computers these days are CHEAP! For a mere NT$30k I can buy a machine that’s about – I dunno – 1,000 times more powerful than I’ll EVER need. They are basically disposable, really. So people who can fix them are really not that important. In my world, at least. All you need is to know how to back up files and that’s it.
It seems to me that in most cases, the tech world issues with Apple products are incompatible with their “Just Works” philosophy (until they find a way to make it compatible). For example, if you introduce multitasking to the iPad / iPhone, then you also have to add some sort of task manager functionality - which makes the device more complicated to use for a typical user. I ran an Android phone that became sluggish as I had more things running in the background. This never happens on an iPhone.
Same way, adding Flash support does introduce stability issues, so now typical user has to wonder why some web pages crash, whereas they didn’t before. Apple has chosen to deliberately limit functionality where it affects performance. I’m sure many consumers (not all) would rather have a device that did a few things really well, than do many things not so well.
[quote=“Adam_CLO”]
It seems to me that in most cases, the tech world issues with Apple products are incompatible with their “Just Works” philosophy (until they find a way to make it compatible). For example, if you introduce multitasking to the iPad / iPhone, then you also have to add some sort of task manager functionality - which makes the device more complicated to use for a typical user. I ran an Android phone that became sluggish as I had more things running in the background. This never happens on an iPhone.[/quote]
I’d rather have the ability (and i’d say right) to do what I like with my toys, even if that means potentially experiencing slow downs. I think giving users that kind of blank canvas to work with allows them to better understand computers as deep flexible tools rather than just dumb input outputs. That said, I can understand (but not necessarily agree with) why some people would rather have the dumbed-down experience.
That is not my only issue with Apple’s consumer-targeted products though. I have less issue with their personal computers (although at this rate we’ll probably see Macs that only install from a locked down app store in under a decade).
Concur. Half the stuff that is out there in the wild (not in the app store) for the iPhone seems to be well-written, is useful and functional. 99% of those apps, rejected for the official store, really make it clear Apple’s intent is not to protect the user from dangerous programs but simply to further their own business model. An application which adds useful functionality to a current product is barred simply because the next version will incorporate such a feature and therefore being able to use that app might impact sales of the next generation device. That stinks and I’m amazed how few of the Apple-isti complain about it.
Oh, and another thing, specially for Beautiful Spam. I DO NOT scorn IT people at all. Why would I? I have the utmost respect for anyone who can do something really well and knows all the ins and outs of it.
No, my scorn is reserved for people who can do something and then decide that whoever can’t do it, or has no interest in doing it, is either illiterate or lazy.
I’m damn good at repairing, modifying and maintaining guitars, and I’m fairly adept at working on point-to-point-wired amps and building cabinets to house them, even though once they’re done, I can barely manage the opening riff from Smoke on the Water.
I’ve never once, i don’t think, described a guitarist I’ve done work for as being illiterate or lazy. Its just such a nutty, nutty concept.
You have teeth, don’t you? Do you perform your own root canals? No? Why not? Are you illiterate or lazy?
That’s the beauty of having competing systems like iPhone and Android. Consumers can purchase the brand that better serves their needs. Plus the iPhone side can urge innovation on the Android side and vice versa, so everyone benefits! (Isn’t this how the Mac vs PC relationship works?)
:ohreally: Do you cook all your own food from scratch, or are you illiterate and extremely lazy? And by from scratch, I mean do you make your own yogurt, sour cream, buttermilk and cheese, noodles and bread, and sauces, and grow your own herbs and vegetables, or are you illiterate and extremely lazy? Do you knit your own scarves and hats, or are you illiterate and extremely lazy? Do you brew your own beer, or are you illiterate and extremely lazy? Shall I continue?
No but I have no problems knowing how to eat food using any utensil.
No but I know how each article is worn, how to wash them, and how to care for the fabric.
No but I know how to drink alcohol responsibly and how to conduct myself safely while under the influence.
No because your line of analogies is flawed. In each example there is an item that must be created using a skill that takes significant training to master. However each of these created items can be used by a consumer with only a small amount of training. Your analogies would imply that I was saying, “People are illiterate and lazy because they cannot program their computer” which is completely untrue. Creating software takes a significant amount of time and effort to learn why computers work the way they do and it requires a certain style of thought that not everybody is good at. However a piece of software can be used by nearly any person without knowing how to create it. They need only read the manual.
Computers are the same. You learn the basics once, aka read the manual, then can safely and efficiently operate computers for the rest of your life. There is no “skill” involved. Only reading. Hell anybody with basic knowledge of a webbrowser can be a “computer expert” by following this flowchart:
I think we have established that there are different products available for different markets. Those who like openness, control and settings can choose Android and netbooks. Those who want simpler design that works out of the box can choose iPhones and iPads. What’s the big deal?
windows is a fkt piece of crap that requires considerable skill to operate efficiently, though you seem to have lost sight of this fact as you have become very familiar with it. What to you is as simple as spreading the correct amount of butter onto toast is for others a skillset that is either unnecessary or unwanted, or in many cases, too difficult to bother trying to master. My Mum, for example.
now, getting onto alternative operating systems such as Ubuntu etc is even more of an arcane art that only geeks wish to bother with. Seriously, djlowballer, you should really get your head around that little concept and refrain from insulting those others who, for a myriad of sensible and even frivolous ideas, choose not to waste their time with PC crapfights. there is so much more to life than registers, bios and fuckin around with interrupts.
HARDLY! All of those are very simple things, which any capable adult could do after reading only a page or two of instructions, verus an entire manual for the computer. And yet, you don’t do any of them. Why not. Because YOU COULDN’T BE ARSED and would rather pay someone else to do it. Same here.
A loaf of bread is the same. You learn the basics once, aka read a few pages, not even a whole manual, then can safely and efficiently make bread for the rest of your life. There is no “skill” involved. Only reading. Hell anybody with basic knowledge of an oven can be a “bread expert”. The analogies are perfect.
[quote=“Dragonbones”]
HARDLY! All of those are very simple things, which any capable adult could do after reading only a page or two of instructions, verus an entire manual for the computer. And yet, you don’t do any of them. Why not. Because YOU COULDN’T BE ARSED and would rather pay someone else to do it. Same here.
A loaf of bread is the same. You learn the basics once, aka read a few pages, not even a whole manual, then can safely and efficiently make bread for the rest of your life. There is no “skill” involved. Only reading. Hell anybody with basic knowledge of an oven can be a “bread expert”. The analogies are perfect.[/quote]
Really? I don’t agree. I find it interesting. You only think that because you’re too lazy to have learned to play Ornithology or bake an artisan boule.
I agree. If you people were content to play with your shiny Fisher Price activity centers and leave the rest of us in peace that would be fine. The “big deal” is that Apple’s design philosophy (hide features, cut features, dumb down, and control the user’s experience) is beginning to influence other software developers. Windows resembles Mac OS more with each iteration, and PC games are becoming more like console games every year.
Meanwhile, users who really should know better sincerely believe that you can’t listen to a “podcast” unless you own an “ipod.” Ferchrissakes people MP3 files have been around for 15 years.
Not to mention that you have to jailbreak the iphone to install, oh i don’t know, Winamp or an NES emulator on the bloody thing, which is something that you’ve always already been able to do with any $300 PC for the last decade if not longer.
[quote=“beautifulspam”]If you people were content to play with your shiny Fisher Price activity centers and leave the rest of us in peace that would be fine. [/quote] Beautiful and modest, I see.
[quote=“beautifulspam”]The “big deal” is that Apple’s design philosophy (hide features, cut features, dumb down, and control the user’s experience) is beginning to influence other software developers. Windows resembles Mac OS more with each iteration, and PC games are becoming more like console games every year.
Meanwhile, users who really should know better sincerely believe that you can’t listen to a “podcast” unless you own an “ipod.” Ferchrissakes people MP3 files have been around for 15 years.
Not to mention that you have to jailbreak the iphone to install, oh I don’t know, Winamp or an NES emulator on the bloody thing, which is something that you’ve always already been able to do with any $300 PC for the last decade if not longer.[/quote]
Wait. So this is about games? It’s your gaming experience that Apple ‘threatens’? You climb up on a high horse over a friggin game? Played on an iPhone?
If so then I gotta say I’m havin’ doubts in yer ability to correctly identify a ‘Fisher Price’ experience, frankly. Fuck. Apple should abandon its biz model so you can dodge the US$0.99 to play skeeball for free on an iPhone, give me a break.
Jesus Christ, bring back the jackoff emoticon. I think we may have found a winner.
No but I have no problems knowing how to eat food using any utensil.
No but I know how each article is worn, how to wash them, and how to care for the fabric.
No but I know how to drink alcohol responsibly and how to conduct myself safely while under the influence.
No because your line of analogies is flawed. In each example there is an item that must be created using a skill that takes significant training to master. However each of these created items can be used by a consumer with only a small amount of training. Your analogies would imply that I was saying, “People are illiterate and lazy because they cannot program their computer” which is completely untrue. Creating software takes a significant amount of time and effort to learn why computers work the way they do and it requires a certain style of thought that not everybody is good at. However a piece of software can be used by nearly any person without knowing how to create it. They need only read the manual.
Computers are the same. You learn the basics once, aka read the manual, then can safely and efficiently operate computers for the rest of your life. There is no “skill” involved. Only reading. Hell anybody with basic knowledge of a webbrowser can be a “computer expert” by following this flowchart: [/quote]
Excellent post
) None of those things cost over NT$15,000. So if they’re fucked can you fix it for, say NT$10k? No? Oh well, I’ll just buy a new one. No problemo. You see how it works?
