Vanneyel - No country “should”…?
Actually I have no problem with this word should. I usually use it when I am talking about how I think things should be.
Satalite - So you gave up your original citizenship, became taiwanese, and then as a Taiwanese re-applied for your original citizenship?
[quote=“bob”]Vanneyel - No country “should”…?
Actually I have no problem with this word should. I usually use it when I am talking about how I think things should be.
Satalite - So you gave up your original citizenship, became Taiwanese, and then as a Taiwanese re-applied for your original citizenship?[/quote]
Sure you like it…until someone tell you that you should stop riding the fence, make a commitment and become a Taiwanese citizen…then you get defensive. 
Satellite TV
[quote]
Become an ROC national today, away with foreign passports, away with 2nd class ARC’s, away with the PRC, away with all you foreigners [/quote]
I use should to refer to things which seem to me ethically correct or practically advisable. In the case of Taiwan granting dual citizen rights to people like us, I am using “should” in both senses of the word. Someone can argue about whether I am correct in either sense, but it I should not be questioned for using the word should. I know it is not a popular word these days but I think that is perhaps due to an abscence of clear thinking on part of some people.
Yeah Sat TV no-one’s arguing you can’t become Taiwanese. You can become North Korean too if you want. And Vannyel is missing the point to. Of course Taiwan can do what it wants. Taiwan can throw all foreigners out tomorrow and disappear up its own arse with a bang if it wants to.
We are asking “is it reasonable”? “Could it be done?” “What would be the harm?”
I really don’t understand you two. Just because it can’t be done now it should never happen and no-one should ever lobby for it? Vannyel is clearly of the opinion that Taiwan should NOT give foreigners passports without forcing them to renounce their first citizenship. I don’t think I’ll ever convince you otherwise, and I’m not trying. I am just trying to make the point that I think it would be better for the future of Taiwan if it internationalised its laws, and adopted the norms of the West. Others don’t. Fine. Super.
What possible harm could it do? Sure, Taiwan doesn’t HAVE to do anything it doesn’t want to. (It’s like listening to a spotty adolescent.) Sure. The West doesn’t have to not tell Taiwan to go and fuck itself either if it doesn’t want to, but we don’t conduct international relations like that. (Well, apart from China, er, and the US, but I mean the rest of us don’t 
)
I think you’ll find that the countries that ban dual nationality are all shit holes, by the way, who have to shoot their citizens every so often to stop them revolting. That’s a wild guess, but I’m predicting I’m right. 
Demnark bans dual citizenships as a general rule… No ppl shot there recently, and more people wanting in than out.
Is it reasonable? Maybe
Could it be done? Sure
What would be the harm…well…pick one or all…
[quote]The number of crime acts within the different main categories of acts
You do know Mr He’s from Denmark, or somewhere like that, don’t you? It’s dark half the year up there. And very cold. And the price is booze is supposed to be extortionate. Or is that Norway? Anyway.
Do you really think there’s a link between crimes commited in Denmark by immigrants and the question of allowing non-Taiwanese to retain their original nationality?
I would also like to point out for the five hundredth time: Taiwan allows dual nationality. We are talking about making prospective immigrants give up their original nationalities, go to Hong Kong to be stateless for six months, then get an ROC passport, then resume their previous nationality, if they can. What on earth is the point in that? What on earth could you find to support sending someone to HK on stateless papers for 6 months because you can’t be arsed to repeal a law? Who will benefit from my six months in Hong Kong? Taiwan? Anybody? I will resume my previous nationality as soon as I get back, and that is allowed, and indeed that is what the ROC government suggests people do. But why?
Vannyell, what on earth is your point in your latest post?
Problems with immigrants in Denmark mean dual citizenship would be bad for Taiwan?
Even if we assumed the following assumptions:
This still does not mean that dual citizenship causes these problems, it just means that immigration causes the problems. Many immigrants from poorer countries are quite happy to give up their original citizenship for a ‘better’ one anyway.
You are simply arguing that immigration is bad, not that dual citizenship is bad.
Anyway, it’s irrelevant. The ROC does allow dual citizenship. They just don’t allow it to foreigners. (And the argument “yes they do because foreigners can renounce their citizenship and then reaquire there old one” is crap because firstly the government doesn’t make Taiwanese be statlelss first and also becuase reaquiring renounced citizenship isn’t always possible).
Brian
Satellite TV
[quote]
Become an ROC national today, away with foreign passports, away with 2nd class ARC’s, away with the PRC, away with all you foreigners [/quote]
Not really … no… can’t we have a bit of fun? We don’t have to take everything so seriously except in cases of anarchy.
Who advised you that you had to go to Kong Kong?
Gove Attache doesnt have to and he’s Brisitsh, I didnt have too and I’m Australia, Cooling Tower didn’t have to and he’s American`…
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for changing the law to allow foreign nationals to become ROC citizens without renouncing their own. But it isn’t possible… You’ve got nationalities, so if you give up the Irish who would really care, you’d still be British. Then you wouldn’t have the luck of the Irish anymore.
[quote=“bob”]Vanneyel - No country “should”…?
Actually I have no problem with this word should. I usually use it when I am talking about how I think things should be.
Satalite - So you gave up your original citizenship, became Taiwanese, and then as a Taiwanese re-applied for your original citizenship?[/quote]
I haven’t re-applied yet but I may. I need to supply a Police certificate and fill in a resumption of citizenship form. Plus pay a processing fee. Perhaps I should do that so that I can take my son back to Australia to finish his schooling.
In any case even if the ROC government asked the ACIO if I had resumed Oz nationality that wouldn’t be able to say, due to secrecy provisions in Australian law.
Won’t it be a fucker if they don’t give it to you.
They could do that. But only if they could prove I didnt intend to move back to Australia. Or unless I had a criminal record from Taiwan.
Who advised you that you had to go to Kong Kong?
Gove Attache doesnt have to and he’s Brisitsh, I didn’t have too and I’m Australia, Cooling Tower didn’t have to and he’s American`…
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for changing the law to allow foreign nationals to become ROC citizens without renouncing their own. But it isn’t possible… You’ve got nationalities, so if you give up the Irish who would really care, you’d still be British. Then you wouldn’t have the luck of the Irish anymore.[/quote]
I had to go to Hong Kong, and it took about six months to get everything worked out, but that was because this was before AIT began accepting renunciations. Things are different now and you can do this.
Who advised you that you had to go to Kong Kong?
Gove Attache doesnt have to and he’s Brisitsh, I didn’t have too and I’m Australia, Cooling Tower didn’t have to and he’s American`…
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for changing the law to allow foreign nationals to become ROC citizens without renouncing their own. But it isn’t possible… You’ve got nationalities, so if you give up the Irish who would really care, you’d still be British. Then you wouldn’t have the luck of the Irish anymore.[/quote]
I had to go to Hong Kong, and it took about six months to get everything worked out, but that was because this was before AIT began accepting renunciations. Things are different now and you can do this.[/quote]
I think you were given the run around. You should have stayed in Taiwan and filed the papers back in the USA. There’s no legal requirement for you be present in the country where the US has an office.
I could have been in Taiwan with no Australian office and renounced by mail. Which is what I did in any case. I mailed the renounciation form to Immigration is Australia. They duly accepted my form, took my money, and my Australian citizenship.
So you can do it all from here now - but what happens when your old citizenship is renounced? On what terms can you remain in Taiwan, given that you don’t have your old citizenship and don’t yet have your new one?
[quote=“Bu Lai En”]Vannyell, what on earth is your point in your latest post?
This still does not mean that dual citizenship causes these problems, it just means that immigration causes the problems. Many immigrants from poorer countries are quite happy to give up their original citizenship for a ‘better’ one anyway.
You are simply arguing that immigration is bad, not that dual citizenship is bad.
Brian[/quote]
I apologize for my poorly structured argument.
My point is that immigrants are the only ones who would be applying for dual citizenship (or complaining about the lack of reciprocity) in Taiwan…therefore immigrants = people who would be applying for dual citizenship
Now going from this established fact - if immigrants cause problems for a society then making it easier for people to immigrate could cause problems (as listed in my previous post).
By discouraging dual citizenship, naturally they are discouraging immigration.
Whether they actually cause problems is not point or concern. I am only trying to illustrate possible reasons the-powers-that-be might not want to change the current laws in Taiwan.
And once more, I would be extremely grateful to anyone who could explain to me how allowing foreigners to become Taiwanese citizens without giving up their previous citizenship could possibly be of benefit to Taiwan.
We could explain it but we doubt that you would understand.
When your citizenship is renounced you are given a 3 year Taiwan Resident Visa with full work and residency rights. You can then also apply for your Taiwan passport. After a further 12 months if you havent left Taiwan for any travel then you can pbtain your household registration and ID Card.