TW fishing boat attacked close to the Philippines

Politics Taiwan Politics
101

Taiwanese have 3 choices here

  1. sit on our arses and hope that Philippine will conduct it’s investigation transparently. Likely result: Pinoy go about their investigation in secret, and after months of procrastination they will come out and say the fishing boat was poaching in Pinoy waters, therefore they have the right to shoot the fishing boat with a machine gun, any deaths caused by it is unfortunate but they can care less. Oh, and the Pinoy president will say “haha, you are not a country, even though our islands and our people are actually brothers, who just had a different fate under different imperialistic colonials after WW2, but we lucked out and you are stuck in Chinese shit, so we are going to shit on you and remind you that you are not a country at every possible opportunity.”

  2. sent our navy to where the incident took place, until the Pinoy navy or coastguard comes out to play and start a navy war.

  3. suspend future pinoy worker applications.

I’d go with 3. Happy to hear about alternative actions.

102

I haven’t followed migrant issues closely for a while, but I believe the Philippines stands to lose as much, if not more, than Taiwan with a disruption in recruiting. I’ve read here on Forumosa or over at Rappler.com that Taiwan is the 7th most popular destination for OFWs. Other than the Philippines, caregivers can be sourced from Indonesia and Vietnam, factory workers from Vietnam and Cambodia, and construction work was always dominated by Thais. Both sides have A LOT to gain by keeping cool and continuing relations, but I feel the workers will get the short end of the stick again.

The timing of this incident was particularly bad for the Philippines, with it happening practically on the even of the Senatorial elections - so media and politics are going to be looking to spin this to their advantage locally with government not acting quickly and decisively. I still haven’t seen ANY details of what the Coast Guard’s side is, and the longer this takes to come out, the less credible and more difficult their position becomes

103

[quote=“suiken”][quote=“Deuce Dropper”]A few things…

didn’t Manila send their envoy to apologize?

war with Taiwan? The Philippines has 4 (yes FOUR) fighter jets, this shit would be over in an hour.

put the Coast Guard guy in jail, and compensate the family.

Also, the Philippines has been bullied a lot lately, by China to the West, by Malaysia in the South, their territory is getting violated on the regular. Perhaps we have a bit of beaten dog syndrome here?[/quote]

news said by military power ranking TW is ranked 18 and PH 31. said that in no time TW will destory PH’s military. not true?[/quote]

Probably more or less true. Duece’s point was to show how little Filippino defense is. TW’s navy is much stronger from PH’s from what I understand.

Heard Kidd class, a destroyer, is going out for a drill tomorrow in the same water where the incident took place.

104

Taiwan doesnt have to do more then what it is planning to do anyways. And the Phil govt doesnt stand to lose too much.

By sticking to its guns, the Phil is saying “stay out of our 200 mile economic zone”. It will only lose a little bit on the employment of its peoples side. Only 87,000 out of TEN MILLION Phil overseas workers work in Taiwan , is a figure that has been touted.

The TW govt will not kick out the workers currently on Taiwan. It will only not employ new ones and will not renew contracts. So eventually over 3 years there will be no philippino workers in Taiwan.

The TW govt will escort its fishing boats when in the overlap area now.

Just like every now and then sending CG boats over to the SEnkakus. Until now Jpan and TW have signed a fisheries agreement.

TW will do the same and send boats with its fishing boats in the overlap areas.

The TW boats will not enter the 12 mile territorial waters of the Philippines.

But they will engage if the Phil CG or Navy comes out to engage the TW military in the overlap zones.

SHOTS WILL BE FIRED.

Thats tommys synop.

p.s. I think the Phil will drag its feet on this for some time. New workers will not be hired. I think the Phil CG and Navy will not be seen in the overlap zones for some time and neither will its fishing boats.

I dont think the 72 hour ultimatum is unfair. The Chinese wouldve done worse.

OF course TW should not compare itself with the Chinese though.

Phil workers are not “needed” in Taiwan because the Indonesians and Vietnamese can fill the vacuum.

The Phil workers may be higher value workers because of their good english and there have been few problems. Whereas there have been more problems with Thai laborers (who are men usually). But they are replaceable if need be.

IF it was up to me, and it isnt. Id say a country’s territorial waters should extend to 100 miles (from the 12 now) and overlap zones should be 50/50 with the overlapping countries. And each side should stay in their own zone.

Or even better, 50 miles territorial zones and NO FISHING by anyone outside of a countries 50 mile zone.

We need to let the fish repopulate.

Also like to see a ban on capture of large ocean animals, including whales, dolfins, sharks, sting rays, sunfish, seals, etc etc.

Basically fish farming in coastal waters only and ending all fishing with fishing boats !

105

Too logical. Not gonna happen. As far as I know, the words “fish” and “fishing” have been mentioned, like, twice in this whole sorry affair. People are just going to pretend it was a streetfight and resource management has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

I was a bit bemused by the Phils president response, which was basically “we’re not going to discuss anything with a country that doesn’t exist”. WTF is he thinking? I was under the impression he was trying to turn the place into a real country. That sort of thing makes no sense at all.

106

It’s that kind of attitude that adds fuel to the fire.

107

Yawn…

What happens if two tadpoles have a fight and a mosquito larvae gets killed?

Especially if one tadpole was “poaching” in the others backyard.

phl.military.austronesia.net/?q= … ippine-Sea

Kill’em dang poachers and save the mermaids. :bow:

108

Too logical. Not gonna happen. [/quote]

Only logical if you are farming fish that don’t eat other fish otherwise, as one wag said, it’s like raising corn to feed to cows to feed to tigers which we then eat.

Plus most farm fishing is horrible for the environment. Farming has destroyed the salmon stocks all over the world, and shrimp farming is a disaster.

109

The three-day thing was a bad call because it’s too short a time to get anything done, meaning Taiwan will be left in a very awkward position when their conditions aren’t met. It’s like a bully trying to shove you into a corner and saying “give me your lunch money [answer us in three days] or else.” The moment you stand tall and answer “Or else what?” the guy has no choice but to clobber you or back away in shame.

110

Yeah I agree 3 days is a bit of a rush. But nothing major is actually going to happen anyway. The TW govt will (temporarily) stop new worker applications and a few CG boats sent out with fishermen.

The Phil govt will respond in time and then some horse trading will begin.

111

If this case was about TCG shot dead a Filipino captain, this board would be in an uproar and condemning how barbaric the Taiwanese are.

But hey since it’s TW national that died, no big deal.

112

Something fishy going on.
Another boat seized by Japan on Tuesday, and yet another harassed by Vietnamese vessels on the same day.
focustaiwan.tw/news/aall/201305140030.aspx
focustaiwan.tw/news/aall/201305140012.aspx

113

The storm in a glass of water seems over. good thing. Seems there are some people out there with common sense.

Appologies given and later formaly accepted , compensation agreeable - and Taiwan will even compensate the familyh of the deceased long-stayer whom got killed while being transported to the Airport 2 days ago.

Diplomacy is the way forward. Elections in the Philippines just delayed the talks.

Case closed :thumbsup:

114

Indeed, the suggestion of giving a 72 hour deadline 48 hours before the Philippines goes into national elections (when typically people are killed - yes, less now than before, but c’mon…) was obviously an uniformed one.

I recognize the importance of setting deadlines. So I’d be surprised if Ma’s people did not jump on MECO to work out a rough framework for discussions before that apparently rash ultimatum was issued. Incredibly, this does not seem to have happened, although over the weekend, I did hear from friends at MECO that they were working around the clock and were very conscience of the 72 hour deadline.

This isn’t the first time this kind of tragic mass has happened. It should have and could have been handled more diplomatically by both Taipei and Manila.

[strike]Btw Rep Basilio sits in MECO in Manila, doesn’t he? I always found it strange that there even is a MECO in Manila. So to make that personal apology to the family, he had to fly here[/strike]
(I checked the MECO website and found that Antonio Basilio is the Resident Representative in Taiwan. I confused his role with that of Amadeo Perez, Jr, who is MECO’s Chairman and who is based in Manila)

115

Too logical. Not gonna happen. [/quote]

Only logical if you are farming fish that don’t eat other fish otherwise, as one wag said, it’s like raising corn to feed to cows to feed to tigers which we then eat.

Plus most farm fishing is horrible for the environment. Farming has destroyed the salmon stocks all over the world, and shrimp farming is a disaster.[/quote]

Well, depends what one means by “farming”. If it’s defined as “expending vast amounts of time and energy to collect non-renewable resources to feed to captive animals”, then yeah, that’s stupid. I agree that Taiwan’s current approach to fish farming is the typical over-engineered response to a fixable, human-created problem. If “fish farming” means sustainably harvesting and managing wild stocks of fish - then it isn’t. Ah, of course, but that’s not real farming, is it? Not enough technology. :s

116

So… I guess it ain’t over.

117

[quote=“hansioux”]
Taiwanese have 3 choices here…
…3. suspend future pinoy worker applications.

I’d go with 3. Happy to hear about alternative actions.[/quote]

I hope they ban importing the graham crackers and Mountain Dew. I never buy that crap anyway.

I see that the DPP’s leading clowns are getting in on the act. From today’s Taipei Times:

Yes, everything is Ma’s fault. Last week a water pipe broke at my house, ostensibly caused by a growing tree root, but I don’t doubt that Ma was behind it. I need to call up the DPP and inform them - this could be an election-changing issue.

118
  1. Blow up any Philippine vessel coming near Taiwan water, or at least hold military exercises very close to Philippine water.
119

The measured, mature response option, of course, sure to bring long-term benefits.

120

I live in the South, and everyone here likes a good policital argument about Ma. Everyone says he is to soft and weak and acts like a girl. I want to ask them if they would prefer another Chen Shui Bian who would rob them blind and get into spats with China daily.

A lot also blame Ma for the declining wages. I also wanted to ask them if Mr Shui Bian had brought them higher wages in the past. But of course it would just start into an argument, with them telling me to go home if I don’t like it so I stay out of political arguments and just nod head (not in agreement however)

All politicians are the same in any country. 6 of this and half a dozen of another. I am reminded of what my mom used to say years ago. New immigrants coming to the country had no idea about the politics of the country, but they would watch the TV and whoever seemed the most handsome or sounded good, even though they didn’t understand the language, that is who they voted for. If you asked the majority of people what the issues are in an election, the majority are just blinded by the hatred of the other party that they don’t even care what the platforms are about anyway.