Two foreigners caught out on TV

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
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If your enjoying this squawk, be sure to also tune in to the one going in parallel:

Good, Bad, and Ugly

quote:
Originally posted by Maoman:

I would argue that MLD’s “ultra righteous, condescending attitude” probably has no bearing on how other people interact with his wife in his absence.

True… But I actually meant the BIGGER problem of feeding into this vicious cycle of racism. Here are some highlights from MLD

quote:
Originally posted by Mai Longdong:

I’ve lived here for about 19 years and the one thing I’ve found exists is sheer XENOPHOBIA compounded by one of the worst cases of gulliability on earth

What’s the matter, Chinatown back in the States get to rough for you?

That’s mighty white of you.

that Japanese were lousy shots because they all had to wear glasses because all they eat is fish heads and rice

You’re right…I don’t give a damn. I see no reason to.

Regarding foreign “predators”…I guess you’ve never seen the Taiwnese tour groups loose in Phnom Penh, Bangkok, Manila or Batam (Indonesia). They go for the under 15 year olds…

And yet MLD included this following piece of wisdom:

quote:
Originally posted by Mai Longdong: I think the difference is (and this is a generalization of course) Americans/Westerners tend to have a much greater exposure to foreign people, concepts, foods, ideas and languages than Asians/Taiwanese along with MUCH less cultural [b]arrogance wrapped up in denial.[/b]

Arrogance and denial…two qualities MLD should be very familiar with.

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quote[quote] He said that out at a bar a group of western males would group together, and the best looking guy would would be the one to pick up a woman, she would go back to his apartment, and then she would be shared amoungst all the guys (and of course she is unaware that this is going to happen). [/quote]

I’ve also received this “urban legend”. The version I received talked about how the males hire a couple of Taiwanese hookers who were “incognito”. Once they get to the hotel room/apartment, the hookers are instructed to act very responsive to the males’ fondling and sexual advances. This is to show the innocent Taiwanese girls that is what normally happens at a Westerner’s home even amongst casual friends. The idea is to put some peer pressure for Taiwanese girls to put out.

It seems like the making of an urban legend. I deleted the email because I didn’t see any values in it.

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LOL, my ex-girlfriend would find the name Mai LongDong offensive too. But she got offended by Big Trouble in Little China so who cares.

Anyways, that urban legend while probably it did not happen is an excellent metaphore for what goes on. Jerky guys (and women) treat each other like sh!t. Eventually the nice people get defensive and don’t fall for that crap as often, so the ugly jerky men need to look elsewhere for action. Asia seems like a virgin land to them where women fall prey to the crap that back in thier home country they wouldn’t. All these sex a$$holes are doing is turning the Asian dating scene into something as ugly as it is back home.

And I’m not some Christian or pent up chick or anything, I’m a 22 year old guy with a healthy outlook who is just sick of people treating Taiwan like its thier home country and not respecting the culture. The way I see it if you’re going to move somewhere leave your old customs behind. A lighter example: As an American I get pissed off when some foreigner is washing his feet in a public sink. It might be socially acceptable where he is from. But when he is in America he better learn quickly not to do it. Its common curtosy and common sense.

Plus there is just the whole array of emotions that these sexpats are disregarding. Women are just a walking vagina to many men, and many Asian girls don’t realise it.

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A walking vagina???
Is that anything like a singing ***** ?
www.marianstuff.com/***** /penissong.mpg

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Ohhhhh, so ***** is taboo, but not vagina?
Get real.

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Whats a *****? Is that where the happy fleas come from?

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Just wanted to thank MaryJane for her (his?) hysterical post. Biggest laugh I’ve had all week.

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quote:
Originally posted by cranky laowai: Are there regular "positive" examples of foreigners on Taiwan TV? (I'm not being rhetorical. I rarely watch TV, other than the movie channels.)

I can’t remember the name and I’m not even sure if its still there (don’t have tv), but there is a show where the hosts (a male and a female) invite a number of men and women to discuss a topic - in a quite civilised, calm manner, without shouting at each other or the like. Richard had been on at least one show (and maybe others from oriented too), because at least twice they had talked about foreign GF/BF/wife/husband. On those occasions, a lot of talk was about legal problems, so they also had invited a lawyer. It was nice to see the (local) hosts finally find that “our government still has some work to do”…

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quote:
But the public ingnorance is something in which no interest exists to move beyond. I'm not blaming anyone. I'm simply pointing out the fact that Taiwan obviously lacks the multi-cultural experience of America.

I sympathize with your frustration. Like any civil rights movements, a catalyst is needed to get it rolling (i.e. Rosie Park’s bus ride). One possible beginning is the improving sensitivities toward Taiwan’s Aboriginals and issues facing them. This is helping to shape a concept of a multi-ethnic society in Taiwan like that of Singapore or Malaysia.

Also, Education of local history such as 228 and KMT White Terror will make the kids more aware of human rights issues. The next generation will be more aware and more worldly. There is hope.

This speech is meant for Asian Americans, the message is universal. Maybe it’ll alleviate your sense of helplessness.

quote:
[url=http://www.dyske.com/apalsa.html]http://www.dyske.com/apalsa.html[/url]

Though we Asians are often criticized for being too passive, there are proper places for passivity, and I feel that racism is one of them. I do not mean to say that we should do nothing about it. Rather, we should shift our focus to something of a positive nature. The fundamental idea of Western medicine is to directly attack the evil. Because of this, while it is very effective in many ways, if the evildoer cannot be identified, or if something prevents it from directly dealing with it, or if there is no weapon to attack it with, then Western medicine is often helpless. Eastern medicine, on the other hand, adopts a very different philosophy. Instead of attacking the evil directly, it makes the body stronger so that it can fight the evil better. It is like making the economy stronger, in order to reduce the number of crimes. I believe that it is more effective to take the approach of Eastern medicine when it comes to the problem of racism. If every one of us focused on doing what we do best, and if we succeed at it, doesn’t that in the end help solve the problem? If you are a lawyer, try to be the best lawyer that you can be. If you are a doctor, try to be the best doctor that you can be. And, if you are a graphic designer, then you try to be the best graphic designer that you can be. I feel that the only thing that you accomplish by uniting to fight the problem would be to realize that you are fighting human nature. Just as our bodies are full of little problems, human nature too has problems. Rather than focusing on specific health problems by applying creams or taking pills, why not do something that makes our bodies healthier as a whole?

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quote:
Originally posted by Urbanjet: Asian females have a better time at finding good roles. However, you will almost never see an Asian couple. It's always an Asian female with a non-Asian male. It's goes back to the asexual stereotype.

Urbanjet,

I disagree. Western media often portrays Asian women as sex objects. It disappoints me that some of these women take these roles.

Look at Lucy Liu in Ally McBeal. Her role is to be a vixen slut. And she has played that kind of role in several movies.

Look at Kelly Hu in The Scorpion King. Her role is to show lots of skin and be some sort of Asian Sex Goddess.

What about Ming Na Wen? She starred with Wesley Snipes and Robert Downey Jr. in an otherwise decent movie called One Night Stand. Ming Na, who was already a well known actress, does this ridiculous sex scene whose only purpose is to make her look like a nymphomaniacal sex machine. She screams, moans and groans more than in most porn movies. The absence of this scene would not have impacted the movie at all.

How about Vivian Wu? She made an NC-17 movie with Ewan McGregor called The Pillow Book. It was a very artistic movie, but also had lots of gratuitous sex.

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quote:
Originally posted by abc:

What about Ming Na Wen? She starred with Wesley Snipes and Robert Downey Jr. in an otherwise decent movie called One Night Stand. Ming Na, who was already a well known actress, does this ridiculous sex scene whose only purpose is to make her look like a nymphomaniacal sex machine. She screams, moans and groans more than in most porn movies. The absence of this scene would not have impacted the movie at all.

How about Vivian Wu? She made an NC-17 movie with Ewan McGregor called The Pillow Book. It was a very artistic movie, but also had lots of gratuitous sex.

ABC, I’m going to have to disagree with this portion of your statement. ((By the way, I thought One Night Stand was great because it showed an Asian/black couple and (more importantly) didn’t even bring it up as an issue (most movies would make it into an issue).))

If these movies had a white or black actress playing them, I’m sure the scenes would still be in there; I don’t think its just because the actress was female. Most sex scenes in Hollywood movies be cut with absolutely no effect on the plot of the movie; I don’t think it has anything to do with the ethnicity of the actress.

Having said that, I completely agree with your overall point. Asian women in Hollywood are portrayed as either quiet, demure, mysterious (and sexy) women, or sex-driven vixens. However, this is SLOWLY changing – more and more ‘normal’ roles are being given to Asians; its just going to take a little while longer for that percentage to get to where everyone’s happier…

Asian males in Hollywood, its also -slowly- getting better (now they’re introducting the ‘I’m quiet but can kick ass’ stereotype a la Chow Yun-fat and Jet Li… its a stereotype, but at least its a much cooler one…! ) Ten years ago there were almost none, now there’s… well a few. (trying to stay positive)

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quote:
Originally posted by abc: Look at Kelly Hu in The Scorpion King. Her role is to show lots of skin and be some sort of Asian Sex Goddess.
Whatever. [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] What are they supposed to do, put in an ugly Asian girl? Or maybe just stick to whites? Get over it - the majority of actors and actresses are supposed to be attractive, that's why they are on the silver screen. There probably weren't too many openings for serious actors/actresses in dramatic roles for the Scorpion King. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] As I recall, noone was wearing too much clothing in that flick anyway... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Hi, MaryJane,
In defense of Jeff, you say he might have not obviously made it in the US, but perhaps making it in the US wasn’t his dream in the first place. He does speak Chinese better than most foreignors here. Keep in mind being a foreign star in Taiwan that makes a lot of money subjects him to a lot of scrutiny that he probably wouldn’t have being a sitcom actor or whatever in the US. What pisses me off about him is his hypocritical trashing of foreignors and gays in the shows he is on. Ever notice how these foreign stars love trashing gays and denying they are in interviews, yet never seem to have wives or girlfriends? Oh, too busy with their glamorous careers, I suppose.

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Well, if anyone has CTS’s number, ring up the Jay and Silent Bob show and ask them to trail this Jeff guy around, gay? dunno, like girls? Judging by his hair I’d say he’s trying to be one.

Usually not one to judge people, but what pisses me off most is that most Taiwanese reckon he’s the best thing to hit here since smaller sized condoms.

To pose a question though - Would you rather, as a white westerner, be stereotyped as a Jeff or one of those 2 guys on the show last week? Fu@#ed either way I say.

Cheers Amos.

75

What surprises me is not the rascism of a Taiwanese minority, but the insensitivty of the majority. I know it shouldn’t surprise me for all the historical and cultural reasons mentioned above, but I’m still shocked at some of the mouths I hear things come out of.

My classic example is a friend who helped me look for apartments when I first got here. I had gone to college with him in the States, so when I got here I stayed with him for a few days while I was looking for a place. He helped me make a few calls one night because I was tired, which at that time still meant that tongue went on strike and refused to speak Chinese. I was having trouble finding a place because I needed a short term lease (I came to do for months of research after which I was going to go back to the States for two months before returning).

So he calls this number. He explains that I need a short term lease because I’m only in Taipei for a few months to do research. Everything’s cool, there’s a time set up to look at the place, when suddenly my friend starts saying “o, wo lijie, wo lijie,” in a tone of voice that means it over.

I ask him what happened and he tells me that the guy suddenly thought to ask if I was a foreigner. When the answer was affirmative, he begged off, saying that “he had a daughter.” I was shocked that I was automatically assumed to be a sex predator, and also at my friend’s response. “Wo lijie” means “I understand,” not in a neutral way either. It has overtones of sympathy and agreement. This was a friend, albeit not a close one, and someone who had lived in the US.

Every time I’ve moved, I’ve been turned down sometimes when people realize I’m a foreigner (my Chinese is good enough now that my size of my nose isn’t immediately apparent over the phone). That’s no longer a surprise. But not only that, when I cite this as an example of racism. They tell me that it’s not; it’s just that they’re just afraid that I’ll move out and take all the furniture (anyone else heard that urban legend?). I’ve gotten that even from from people who are well-educated and have traveled/lived abroad.

More locally, the Taiwanese education system really needs to teach kids more about Aboriginals. My fiance is Atayal and gets almost as many compliments on her Chinese as I do. Everyone thinks she’s a foreigner. At this environmental fair, we were looking at these baskets like the ones her father used to make and this Han Chinese guy looks right at her and says in English, “This basket made by original people in mountains.” Thanks for the tip. As an Aussie I used to work with said, “Australians may be racist, but at least we know who our Aboriginals are.”

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When I was looking for a place in Taichung, I was refused outright around 65% of the time, simply because I was a foreigner (they couldn’t tell over the phone). It was fun sometimes because the excuse they gave me was there would be ‘communication problems.’ (Although we didn’t seem to be having any at the time).

Apparently, quite a few foreigners run up $10,000 (or more) in telephone bills the month before they leave, screwing over the landlord. I can understand their apprehension, but it’s still racism, no matter what the reason. 65% is a high percentage.

On the other hand, my current landlord is a very nice person, and couldn’t care less that I was a foreigner.

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But I digress…

Hee hee… apparently this show (which airs on Saturday nights I believe) had an American English teacher secretly filmed being kinda intimate with a Chinese girl. When this girl said that she couldn’t becuase she had a boyfriend, he said something like, ‘its ok… that doesn’t matter…’

ANYways, this ‘American’ English teacher, I just found out, was my Italian friend, who was paid $2500 to be ‘caught on hidden camera’ with this Chinese actress. The entire thing was staged, yet apparently the show purposely gives the impression that these were real, actual ‘secret recordings.’ Bastards.

(I’m not too thrilled my friend did this either.)

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quote:
Originally posted by Mai Longdong:

Well then I suggest you go closer to home…ever see the brothels around Hwa-Hsi St featuring 13-14 year old aborigine girls? Who were the customers??? I didn’t see many “big-noses”.

ok, this is the lamest comeback ever. urban states that he has seen westerners as well as taiwanese prey on 13-year old prostitutes in se asia. and your retort is that taiwanese are worse because you’ve seen brothels where underaged prostitutes worked in taiwan. do you not understand that the generalizations and stereotypes you are trying to perpetrate on taiwanese men are just as bad as the sexual predator image that western men have in taiwan? are you really so interested in playing tit-for-tat you’re bigger perverts than we are?

why are you so adament to prove that asians are bigger deviants than westerners? does it make you feel good to know that you’re better than they are? does that give you a smug sense of self-rightiousness?

give it up, mai. you make yourself look worse every post. do you teach your sons to make jokes about chinatown to asian americans, too?

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quote[quote] urban states that he has seen westerners as well as taiwanese prey on 13-year old prostitutes in se asia. [/quote]

Just to clarify. What I saw was men (of all color and size) with young Thai prostitutes on the streets. This is a common sight on the streets in Bangkok, Pattaya, and Phuket ('though the gov have started cracking down ont the sex industry). I didn’t see the 13-year olds 'though I wouldn’t be surprise.

I’m just amazed at how exact MLD can describe the location of brothels in Taipei.

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quote:
Originally posted by LittleIron: When I was looking for a place in Taichung, I was refused outright around 65% of the time, simply because I was a foreigner.
Sure we all know this kind of thing happens but it's no use getting upset about it because if it really bothers you