United States, anymore?

Seems the development in the past week, is hardly surprising. COVID seems to have been tearing the United States apart. It makes me wonder, how much longer can the states be united? Do you think the states will break up into 50 countries rather than a united states? Do you think it may be best for the country if things are this way and with some kind of trade/immigration agreement to keep things flowing?

Because I don’t know how much longer things can continue like this.

Then Texas and other more frontier states can keep their guns while California is free to ban them all. It would just be international relations rather than domestic.

In canada we always call them “The States”. Take from it what you will, but probably a lot of arm chair dictators will call “told you so”.

Some posts here about the term american is wrong, albeit common.

Its hard to judge trump or biden when the people are so fucked. But where else is isnt fucked? They just happen to be the king of the hill, and throughout history the guy at the top gets pummeled back down and so the circle of ego continues.

The only thing the US has going over the EU is language, only English … and Spanish.

No, the States is not going to break up- it’s still going to be rich and powerful 20 years from now, and probably still the best hegemon the world has seen.
One problem with breaking up is it’s not like the old Confederacy. While some parts are red, and other parts are blue, it’s mostly a sea of blue dots of cities surrounded by purplish suburbs surrounded by red rural areas. It’s too mixed.
In the 1890s, Speaker of the House Thomas Reid was asked what the greatest problem facing the American people was. He replied, “How to dodge a bicycle”.
I suspect this will all blow over, and the answer in 20 (well, maybe 40) years will be, “How to dodge a flying skateboard”.

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Don’t worry, Cheeto Benito will be gone soon and corona will be last year’s problem

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I’m pretty sure Texans and Californians are certainly not as one dimensional as portrayed.

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Much of the world: teehee

The EU has more.problems than multiple languages…

Lets be honest, the states work cause they are the only nation, so far, with the balls to nuke an enemy meanwhile putting.on the show of equality and human rights. An albino elephant to be sure. But still better than a red one…

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I predict that within 20 years some state’s directions are so far “right/conservative” (just to give them a label: RC) that they are effectively independent in some aspects. When a state’s governor and key appointees have control for any length of time with gerrymandering, closing key voting stations, etc. they are able to hold onto power more easily. Then they put the laws and policies which shape the state’s directions. I believe that more RC people are going to be moving to states which reflect their beliefs…and those states are less populated so less fighting with the more centric city folks. I think a cluster around Oregon, Utah and Idaho and perhaps a midwestern state as well.
If enough RC power is concentrated in those states the only think keeping the U.S. together will be federal funds since most “poorer” states rely heavily on federal funds to keep government operations afloat.
To me the only state which could survive on its own is Texas. But as natural gas takes away some of oil’s economic power then Texas will have a tougher time as well being independent.
But all of this is moving toward some sort of breakup…I just think that is natural for a big country with diverse population. I actually think breaking into two has some benefits and the stronger one will eventually suck the strength from the weaker one. Only worry is weaker one selling its land to some foreign country.

Looks like he borrowed those words from your ‘orange man’.

I don’t think the Oregon hinterland is going to out-populate Portland- maybe the Dakotas, especially South Dakota- Nodaks seem a little more buttoned down.
As for RC people moving- like the growing populations of Virginia, Georgia, Nevada, and Arizona? Texas is becoming a more diverse state- it’s about 6% percent more Republican, with most cities Democratic- not a great base for right-wing independence.

Yes, Texas is becoming more diverse…serves them right for attracting those tech companies from California to move there.
I think as some states become more conservative some of the more liberal population will move. I think will become that severe. When you have evangelical leaders saying that the 10 Republicans that voted to impeach Trump are traitors to Jesus…well, the evangelicals and others supporting this direction have gone too far down this road to stop now. They see this as their last chance as the “others” (non-white, liberals, immigrants, etc.) are on pace to maybe outnumber them by too much for them to get the upper hand later. I heard this kind of talk 30 years ago in Texas…I just see it manifest itself with a leader like Trump. I do not think they will wait much longer to keep pushing their agenda…more violence is on the way…more very narrow state agendas will be pushed even if it means trampling on rights of some citizens.

If evangelicals compare Trump to Jesus then they have completely missed the mark.

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In two or three years Covid-19 will be a distant memory and the US will chug along just fine.

Need be, all it takes is a good (cold) war to unify the people.

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Domino effect. If the states fall, the free world follows and then we have red china to bend over to. I dont see the world allowing that this 50 years. Though to be fair, china has done a good job of brainwashing the entitled new generations in all corners. Canadian millenials and x gen buying muslim slave trade gadgets while protesting human rights issues agains first nations and trumps whatever. It is sooooo ironic it’s painfully funny. Mostly painful. so who knows…

So what?

United States don’t care what the world thinks. The country is shooting themselves in the foot, probably head too, and the rest of the world can only watch in horror. Any country try to mess with American politics and America shuts them down.

The U.S. leadership has been in distress with some political turmoil. But you (Taiwan Luthiers) may be overstating the problems here in the U.S.

I think you’re always critical of the U.S. due to your personal experiences. But also the information you receive via news and social media make everything U.S. look bad right now, when it’s not all doom and gloom. Most people in the U.S. are doing OK. And we have a new administration coming into control. Let’s see what Biden’s plans can do for the U.S.

This past year I’ve watched too much news and read too many opinions online. I’ve also wondered “Is this the beginning of the end for the U.S.?” Not just an academic question, because my family can choose to live in the U.S. or Taiwan. And I have a bunch of little kids, so I’m concerned with the question of where the U.S. is going in the next 20 to 40 years.

We live in the U.S. now. The U.S. has political and social problems, but still the strongest military, the strongest economy, the best opportunities for upward mobility, the greatest innovation in tech-medicine-business, great universities, and the most personal and economic freedom.

The downside: the benefits of all that “greatness” are not easily available to everyone. If you don’t have connections, education, or money, or if you’re not white, it can be harder to access the opportunities. That’s why I refer to “political and social problems” earlier in this post. Black Lives Matter is correct in identifying a problem: the Civil War in the United States has never really ended and lots of white people refuse to see that our segregated society prevents a huge part of our nation from accessing opportunity.

This is the kind of thing that could lead to, and is leading to conflict in the U.S. But I’m still optimistic because all the numbers and trends show that the white population is in decline, and non-white citizens will soon enough be a majority in the U.S., and “white” people will be a minority. The category called “mixed race” people in the U.S. are also growing at an extremely fast rate, showing that a lot of people in the U.S. are not particularly hung up on racial concerns.

Some of our societal problems will go away as racist old white people die off and become a footnote in history. My only concern is how much upheaval we must endure as crackers feel the need to kick up dust and complain about immigrants, as they try to Make America Great (Again?).

In my day to day life here in the U.S. here’s what I see. I see that businesses are running, a lot of businesses are making record profits, and my local community, and government, and my kids schools, are all working well (while we are all wearing masks). I’m a business owner and I’ve got new clients calling me and throwing money at me. So things are OK in my part of the world. (Although I’m a white, educated, professional, business owner. So my experience is from my own point of view. but I see people working and businesses running all around me, and I’m spreading the wealth around too as I’ve increased my spending on goods and services.)

I also live among a population that I don’t agree with, politically. Serious disagreements, but most people are not in the streets rioting. Those scenes make the news because they are so unusual. Most of us talk to our neighbors, attend town council meetings, vote, and if necessary, file lawsuits. That’s all normal, and it’s all happening peacefully while we get along with our neighbors and go about our lives. The crazy people you see on the news look just as crazy to us Americans as they do to the rest of you.

The really unusual thing that’s been happening in the U.S. is the fact that the anti-government political dissidents took over the white house and have stirred up trouble for four years. That is so unusual that it makes headlines everywhere. But it’s not reflective of how 300-some million people in the U.S. are living.

It’s amazing that new vaccines have been developed and tested, and are starting distribution within one year of the virus outbreak. This is a HUGE success, even as we’re facing the impossible task of “hurry up and distribute and administer 320 million (or 640 million) doses, right now!”

Vaccinations are going to help with the virus. The next generation displacing the current generation is going to help with racial problems (I hope). And the economic and military momentum of the United States will ensure that it’s a fairly stable place for a few more decades. Whether we’re on the decline, or whether we’ll grow stronger, well that’s a good question. And I don’t think anyone can see that far into the future from where we’re sitting.

The U.S. always faces internal dissent and upheaval because we don’t have a centralized system of control, like an authoritarian government. This gives us incredible freedom in our personal, economic, and political lives. The CCP likes to point to this upheaval as our weakness, but it really means we’re going to kick up dust as we fight over our problems, and then settle into a workable compromise that keeps the machine running while ensuring that people’s voices are heard and problems are addressed. And (ideally) from our disagreements comes a compromise that lets us continue innovating and profiting, and living freely.

Within that framework of understanding, I don’t think that the Trump presidency or Black Lives Matter or Covid-19 are going to make the U.S. split apart and fail. It’s a difficult and necessary part of living in a free democracy where the government doesn’t get to control the people. Study the U.S. Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights, and you come to realize that the document gives some limited authority to the government, and then lists a whole bunch of things the government isn’t allowed to touch representing our freedoms that government can never mess with. Yes that includes great things like the first amendment, and maybe stupid things like the second amendment.

The result of all this freedom is that observers see it as anarchy or upheaval. But it can also be seen as free people arguing and pushing and deciding for themselves where their nation will go next. Authoritarians and frightened people hate to see this, because they believe it’s a sign of danger or weakness. Freedom loving Americans say “we’re going to figure it out and move forward, don’t bet against us.”

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You’re in the minority.

The Bill of Rights are being increasingly ignored by the government, out of concern for security and whatnot. There is no second amendment as there are laws that puts people in prison for certain category of people. The only rights in the US that is being taken seriously right now is the 1st amendment, but even that is being eroded as well. The US jails more people than all other countries in the world, often over nothing. The US treats anyone with a record with contempt, denying jobs and opportunities.

The US constitution is a great document but unless it benefits them politically, it is ignored. I don’t know if you noticed but the federal government is taking more and more control over state and local governments. Not recent either, but it has been going on since FDR became president. The US constitution never intended the federal government to have this much power.

Not to say that everything is fine and dandy in Murica, with restoration of sanity and civility guaranteed, but the people who tend to be most pessimistic, critical and hyperbolic about the US are usually… Americans.

In the stock market, there’s the Buffetism, “Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful.” I think a similar logic can be applied when it comes to the state of the US. The fact that large numbers of people think things are falling apart is probably more a good thing than a bad thing. I’d be more worried if people didn’t see that something was wrong.

Drama queens.

Outrage syndrome with different symptoms.