US - Israeli Relationship

The U.S., in selecting representatives to choose an Iraqi constitution is hardly a disinterested outside power. For better or worse, it seems that the U.S. wants Iraq to be divided into ethnic-based regions, with a permanent U.S. military presence. This is why the Shi’is are screaming bloody murder.

Now why would the U.S. be so interested in controlling a democratic Iraq? Perhaps because they are afraid of what its elected leadership might do. Here’s something that’s been kept off the Jew controlled airwaves, it’s from the Asiatimes online:

[quote]Iraq was invaded ‘to protect Israel’ - US official
By Emad Mekay

WASHINGTON - Iraq under Saddam Hussein did not pose a threat to the United States, but it did to Israel, which is one reason why Washington invaded the Arab country, according to a speech made by a member of a top-level White House intelligence group.

Inter Press Service uncovered the remarks by Philip Zelikow, who is now the executive director of the body set up to investigate the terrorist attacks on the US in September 2001 - the 9/11 commission - in which he suggests a prime motive for the invasion just over one year ago was to eliminate a threat to Israel, a staunch US ally in the Middle East.

Zelikow’s casting of the attack on Iraq as one launched to protect Israel appears at odds with the public position of US President George W Bush and his administration, which has never overtly drawn the link between its war on the regime of Saddam and its concern for Israel’s security.

The administration has instead insisted it launched the war to liberate the Iraqi people, destroy Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and to protect the United States.

Zelikow made his statements about “the unstated threat” during his tenure on a highly knowledgeable and well-connected body known as the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB), which reports directly to the president. He served on the board between 2001 and 2003.

“Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I’ll tell you what I think the real threat [is] and actually has been since 1990 - it’s the threat against Israel,” Zelikow told a crowd at the University of Virginia on September 10, 2002, speaking on a panel of foreign policy experts assessing the impact of September 11 and the future of the war on al-Qaeda.

“And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don’t care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn’t want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell,” said Zelikow. [/quote]

One more thing. Those “civilians” that were “murdered” by Iraqis recently, dragged through the streets? They’re mercs. Got what they deserved. The U.S. military has been using a lot of these lately.

Gosh and Iraq was such a peaceful shangrila before the us got involved. What the hell, innocent people dying? What the hell is up with that? It’s almost like Saddam was still in power except 50K fewer people have been killed and tortured this year, but hey that don’t count since it all about oil right dawgs?

So, Fred, you’re argument is basically “at least we’re not as bad as Saddam…?” Like, instead of comparing our administration with what the Iraqi people actually want, we should compare it to what they had under the dictatorship previous to ours…?

I admit that their various national aspirations are mutually contradictory. The Kurds want as much automony as they can get; the Arabs want their country back; the Shi’is want pure one-man-one-vote democracy which would put them in charge. Conveniently, the U.S. solves the problem by giving them what IT wants.

Anyway, doesn’t anybody find it disturbing that we went there in the first place in order to protect Israel? Or that the U.S. government would scramble around to find some other excuse, since the real reason would have been politically unpopular?

SJ:

I understand your concerns but give us time. I for one do not believe that the US government has designs on controlling Iraq and that we are genuinely interested in giving them a constitution that works. Now, they are in greater disagreement among themselves than with us but these are important concerns that they need to bring up and compromise on with their eyes wide open so no one feels cheated ala Lien and Soong after the fact: the elections.

Please, this war was not for Israel’s benefit. A more stable Middle East with free, democratic states and respect for human rights is not only in Israel’s best interests but in all Arabs, Muslims and our best interests. Remember we were only able to pull our troops out of Saudi Arabia after the threat that Saddam posed was removed and for all the cost of the war, etc. we no longer need base so many troops in Saudi et al, the expensive enforcement of the no fly zones is over and the Navy and Air Force have been greatly freed up. The army is a different matter but give us time. I do want to stress again and again and again that it was always planned that we would leave 35K to 50K troops in Iraq and for just as long as we have in South Korea, Japan and Germany. Would anyone argue that these places are not better off because of our involvement? No. So why cannot the same formula work for Iraq and the Middle East? Let’s give it a try. The previous policies of the past 30 years have failed dismally. We need to try something new. Let’s give Bush another four years and then see what happens. We have made so much progress in two plus years. Think of what we can do with another 4.5.

Democracy in Iran?
Women’s rights in Saudi Arabia?
Women parliamentarians in Gulf States?
Free press in Egypt?
Democracy and respect for human rights in an independent Palestine at peace with Israel?
Syrian troops out of Lebanon?
Real democracy in Lebanon?
Moves toward democracy in Syria?
An end to civil war in Algeria?
End to civil war in Sudan? end to enslavement of Blacks by Arabs in Sudan? End to atrocities committed against Blacks in Sudan?
End to preaching in mosques that promotes hatred? intolerance? terrorism?
Beginning of a campaign to end honor killings in the Muslim world, especially Pakistan and Palestine?
Beginning to treat girls as future citizens with greater efforts to educate them?
A new appreciation for literacy and reading? A book that sells more than 10,000 copies in Egypt?

[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]

One more thing. Those “civilians” that were “murdered” by Iraqis recently, dragged through the streets? They’re mercs. Got what they deserved. The U.S. military has been using a lot of these lately.[/quote]

wow. they deserved to have their corpses dragged through the streets because they were hired to provide security in iraq? and i guess all the us soldiers who died deserved to die, too, huh? just goes to show you don’t give a shit about the lives of us servicemen or ex-servicemen who are trying to make iraq a safer place.

that’s got to be by far the most pathetic comment i’ve read on these boards since i’ve started posting here. they got what they deserved? geez.

i didn’t know philip zelikow was in charge of us foreign policy.

Flipper:

He’s not but with the antiSemitic brigade of Screaming Jesus and Spook, any chance to crucify the jews is justified. Something to do with Jesus I guess even though he was a Jew too but you know they are like trying to control the world and such through making their children read books and study hard. That’s given them this totally unfair advantage you know over the Arabs and Muslims who don’t read but that’s okay because it’s part of their cultural heritage along with intolerance even though Islam is a religion of peace. Much better to keep your women ignorant, barefoot and preggers. Oh whoops but I cannot say that because I am neither Muslim nor Arab. White men cannot say those things cause it’s wrong, but for the Arab and Muslim men that’s part of their culture and we have to respect that. Got it?

The other irony is that Philip Z. is probably Jewish. So much for the united front.

Flipper, do you even know what a “merc” (mercenary) is?

I’m afraid their use by the U.S. government is an ongoing trend. You may recall that some of them were discovered to have taken rape-slaves in the former Yugoslavia. Since they don’t fall under the Uniform Military Code, they didn’t get punished.

“Anti-Semitism” these days basically means, any opinion the Jews don’t like. This includes observations of a factual nature, such as their domination of the media. (Go check.)

By the way, Fred, literacy is higher among Middle Eastern Muslims than you seem to think. And Judaism has not exactly distinguished itself lately as a “religion of peace,” any more than Islam.

SJ:

Cannot prove it by me. Been to the Middle East recently? I would say that Iran does all right literacy wise but is hardly stellar? By the way, what sort of violence have the Jews been perpetrating these days? Hijacking planes again? Blowing up civilian targets like buses, schools, etc.? Wanna make a tally of the number of innocents killed by Jews and then compare that figure with oh I don’t know Muslims or Christians or Hindus to get a real startling comparison? Hahaha.

I believe that in Palestine, where the two warring populations are approximately equal (and hence comparable, unlike “Jews” and “Muslims” generally), Jews have killed about ten times as many Palestinians as the other way around. Can’t say how many on either side were “innocent.”

Not sure what your point is, SJ. But, the only thing that your statistic proves or otherwise indicates is that one side is more efficient. Hasn’t any relevance to the issue of which side is “right” or “wrong”.

How many Palestinians have Arabs killed? And what does that mean?

SJ:

I would question the accuracy of your statistics. Perhaps wishful thinking on your part. Prove it.

I guess you were right to question them. Here’s what http:www.ifamericansknew.org calculates their scorecards:

Which is closer to 1-to-3. Obviously this reflects differences in ability rather than desire.

There is also an interesting article on the site about statistical differences in reporting the deaths of Israelis vs. Palestinians in the San Fransico Chronicle.

How did the Israelis die? Terrorist actions? How did the Palestinians die? Police actions where in many cases Palestinian terrorist have put civilians deliberately into danger. Remember Jenin?

[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]Flipper, do you even know what a “merc” (mercenary) is?

I’m afraid their use by the U.S. government is an ongoing trend. You may recall that some of them were discovered to have taken rape-slaves in the former Yugoslavia. Since they don’t fall under the Uniform Military Code, they didn’t get punished.

[/quote]

so do you have evidence that these particular mercs(all ex-navy seal or delta force) were engaged in atrocities? or are you just painting them with your broad brush and smirking at their gruesome deaths because you think all mercenaries deserve to have their corpses disemboweled and dragged through the streets in front of cheering crowds?

btw, the employees of blackwater security(like the four that were killed) are hired to provide protection for us officials like bremer as well as FOOD SHIPMENTS. yeah, keeping looters from the food, they sure deserved to die.

Ask yourself–what sort of person becomes a merc? And then you will understand why I paint them with such a “broad brush.”

Ever read “Soldier of Fortune”? Some mercs are like that–guys who want a little adventure–a little torture here, a little gang-rape there. Cowboys, as they say. Others are just after money. Military people quickly discover ways to scam the system once they leave, and contracting is one of the best. In other countries, mercs can involve themselves in industries like drugs or diamonds.

I think the U.S. military finds mercs convenient to use, since they are not bound by the usual military restrictions, and also because if they die, they are not counted against the U.S. statistics. Every time one of them dies a gruesome death, it sends a welcome message to the powers that be, not to speak of other mercs.

here’s a profile of one of the men who died:

phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/ … 79068.html

tell me again why scott helvenston deserved to die and have his charred body paraded around town.

you know fuck all about these men and yet you take glee in their deaths. oh, but you glanced at a copy of “soldier of fortune” once. yeah, whatever. :unamused:

you, sir, take the cake for posting the most ignorant, prejudiced drivel i’ve ever read on these boards.

thedesertsun.com/news/storie … 2326.shtml

[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]Ask yourself–what sort of person becomes a merc? And then you will understand why I paint them with such a “broad brush.”

Ever read “Soldier of Fortune”? Some mercs are like that–guys who want a little adventure–a little torture here, a little gang-rape there. Cowboys, as they say. Others are just after money. Military people quickly discover ways to scam the system once they leave, and contracting is one of the best. In other countries, mercs can involve themselves in industries like drugs or diamonds.

I think the U.S. military finds mercs convenient to use, since they are not bound by the usual military restrictions, and also because if they die, they are not counted against the U.S. statistics. Every time one of them dies a gruesome death, it sends a welcome message to the powers that be, not to speak of other mercs.[/quote]

You ever hear the saying about it better remaining quiet and letting people think you might be stupid than opening your mouth and removing all doubt? Just keep on smoking that dope. :unamused:

A large number of Palestinians are Christian (est. 20-25%0. Including Yassir Arafat’s wife. Strange no one never hears of Palestinian Christian suicide bombers.

888webtoday.com/beezley435.html
worldhistory.com/wiki/Y/Yasser-Arafat.htm
mideastchristians.virtualactivis … alpain.htm
townhall.com/columnists/denn … 0406.shtml