Use eni i-Sint 0W-30 synthetic oil in 2 L Cefiro

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

Hello all. I’m really hoping for some feedback from people familiar with the Nissan Cefiro and engine oils. I bought some eni brank i-Sint tech 0W-30 synthetic engine oil for my 2.0 L Nissan Cefiro. When I got home I found the manufacturer says it is only for certain VW engines and NOT allowed for use in all engines. I don’t know if this is just standard CYA or if other engines really can’t use it.
Does anyone use this oil in the Cefiro or know of people who do?

Manufacturer’s info: enischmiertechnik-datenblaet … 1008_e.pdf

"eni i-Sint tech 0W-30 is a modern fully synthetic engine oil with lowered HTHS Viscosity,
which had been especially developed for vehicles with gasoline and diesel engine of the VWGroup starting model year 2000 with prolonged change interval including pump-nozzle engines
with prolonged change interval. "

"eni i-Sint tech 0W-30 had been especially developed for the engine generation of the VWGroup for vehicles starting model year 2000 with prolonged change interval including pumpnozzle engines. Due to the prolongation of the maintenance interval oil changes up to 30.000
km are possible for gasoline engines (VW 503 00) and for diesel engines (VW 506 00/506 01)
up to 50.000 km respectively max. 2 years. "

“This special engine oil is not allowed for the universal application in all engines.”

2

I dont buy synthetic oil, but if I did, I wouldn’t buy this stuff, because:-

(a) I’ve never heard of it. That might just be my ignorance, but that’s the ignorance I have most readily available (I don’t have a smartphone).
(b) the logo looks (suspiciously?) like Agip’s in style
© I don’t do many miles, so alleged reductions in fuel consumption aren’t a prinary concern to me
(d) it says on the bottle that I shouldn’t.

Its quite difficult to get any specific information on oil, since its all proprietary and secret. (They won’t, for example, usually tell you how much ZDDP is in it, which is of concern to me) so when they fairly specifically say “don’t use this stuff” that’s perhaps worthy of some attention, though I’d guess that instruction is lifted from the VAG spec. and doesn’t originate with the manufacturer of this stuff.

Id guess the implication is that the lower HTHS viscosity might result in higher wear rates in wider-tolerance engines than the stuff is targetted at, because the crankshaft (for example) will tend to rattle around in the bore some.

I’d take it back for a refund/credit note and buy something mainstream with it. If I couldn’t get a refund I’d cut it with a high proportion of the highest viscosity oil I could easily find. I’d probably use CPC straight 40, which is widely available and cheap. You’ll probably want to use a synthetic but you wont find one in a straight grade. IIRC Costco had 15/50 Mobil 1 at a fairly good price, though I don’t know much about synthetics or thier local availability.

mobil.com/usa-english/motoro … _guide.pdf (couple of years old, so may be out of date)

Incidentally, if you get any responses to your “has anyone used this in a Cefiro” enquiry they are unlikely to tell you anything usefull unless it was either (a) completely disastrous (unlikely) or (b) they have done a before and after series of oil analyses (VERY unlikely).

3

Oh, and (e) 20,000 km longer on the oil for diesel engines does not seem to compute.

4

Ah, Eni IS Agip, so that WAS just my ignorance and this stuff isn’t snake oil (which TBH I’d suspected it was).

I’ve copied this enquiry (AND my smartarse initial response to it) on BITOG, where be oil geeks. If anything informative results I’ll copy it here, but you could also check there if you’re interested.

5

Thank you Ducked.

I agree it doesn’t seem like a good idea to use this oil in a Cefiro when the oil’s maker is saying not to.
Didn’t realize that when I bought it. The bottle says “designed for volkswagen engines”.
Nothing about it being ONLY for volkswagen engines. Only an online search turned that up. Not very clear labeling in my opinion.

I haven’t seen much in the way of 0W-30 oils here. Just the eni and SpeedMaster so far.
I was looking for Esso Extra XD3 0w30 PAO, Rotella T6, or Mobile 1.
I have also heard CPC oil is good but haven’t seen it in 0W-30. Maybe I just need to keep looking.

Thank you for putting it on BITOG. I was thinking I might end up asking there, although I was hoping for Taiwan-specific feedback. It was reading sulavaca’s comments on the Cefiro that helped lead me to get one. I must say I really like the Cefiro and greatly appreciate the information he provided. (I know he would recommend a 3.0 L over the 2.0 L but I’m happy with it.)

6

when is it ever cold enough in Taiwan to use 0 weight oils?
one would think that something like a 20-40 would be better for an older low stress six in a Cefiro.

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[quote=“urodacus”]when is it ever cold enough in Taiwan to use 0 weight oils?
one would think that something like a 20-40 would be better for an older low stress six in a Cefiro.[/quote]

Well, that’d be my bias too, but it isn’t necessarily just a question of cold weather starting. There’s also the argument that the oil gets circulated faster and so reduces dry-start wear.

My concern would be more with the low HTHS viscosity.

4WIW a link from the BITOG thread shows 10-40W from the same manufacturer recommended for Ferrari’s

Incidentally, I don’t think the OP has said how old his Cefiro is, but a bit of casual Googling suggests the recent V6’s, at least, are frighteningly (to me) advanced/complex and maybe not so low-stressed.

All that gubbins and they can’t be bothered to fit a 50$ prelube system? Go figure.

8

Do you definately need 0-30 weight? Seems low.

What does your owners manual recommend for Taiwan temperatures?

You might try direct enquiries to Nissan and Agip, though they may not be willing to comment on other peoples products.

9

Strange that the only Oil we had a problem with,in over 30 Years of Motorsport,was Mobil 1,the first Zero Viscosity Oil that was widely used AFAIK. I am a great believer in Oil pressure!. The Cosworth engines,were rattling badly ( hydraulic Tappets) on tickover. Ironic that it was Marketed as a “Motorsport” Oil. Probably some applications where a 0 viscosity is suitable…when things get hotter (either climate or hard use) Teams tend to use a higher Viscosity oil(certainly at the lower range). :2cents:

10

Thank you for all of your replies.

The car is a 2004 and I haven’t found a manual yet.
A 2004 Maxima manual said “SAE 5W-30 viscosity oil is preferred for all temperatures” for the (3.5 liter?) VQ35DE but doesn’t mention the VQ20DE.
I’m not concerned about low temperatures, but am interested in reducing cold start wear and hopefully improving power and fuel economy. I know, I don’t ask for much. :slight_smile:
With oil technology advancing, I want to get the best available now (the Maxima manual is copyright 2003).
From what I’ve read (at leat some) 0w-30 oils can be used in applications that call for 5W-30.

Maybe I should start a thread asking what the best oil is for the 2004, 2.0 L Cefiro?

11

I would use a semi synthetic 10-30 W or 5-30 W like Castrol Magnatec . There are no cold starts in Taipei…

just change your oil every 5000 to 7000 km. That’s much better for your engine than a full synthetic oil at 15000 km intervals, and about the same price.

12

I plan to return the eni 0W-30 to the store tomorrow and see if I can get 5W-30 instead. This time I’ll make sure it doesn’t say VW on the bottle and get the store to confirm if it’s suitable for the Cefiro.

Thank you again to everyone for the replies and especially to you Ducked for checking on BITOG.

Happy 4th of July! (Even if it is the 5th now and even if you’re not American :smiley: )

13

Well, BITOG hasn’t really come through with anything substantial, other than someone pointing out to me that Eni was Agip (which a quick Google would have told me) and saving me the face-loss of having it pointed out here. :blush:

“Thin-is-better” seems to be pretty much recieved opinion now, so the counter-assertions you’re getting here are fairly “old guard”.

Evidence-wise its mostly unsupported opinion or anecdotal either-way, though some peoples anecdotes are better than others.

An oft-cited presentation of the thin-is-better argument (mentioned in passing in the BITOG thread, though I’ve seen it before) is from Dr.A.E.Haas.

ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.ph … s_articles

He’s not a tribologist (but then neither am I) but a plastic surgeon (hence the surfeit of Ferrari’s, if you can have a surfeit of Ferrarri’s) and he’s based in Florida, so cold starts are’nt likely to be a problem for him. He’s a big fan of thin oil, and, while I’ve only scanned it, his arguments mostly seem to make sense, except his (fairly central) flow = lubrication assertion, which doesn’t. Provided a bearing is oil-filled, the dynamic component of hydrodynamic lubrication will be mostly contributed by the rotation of the shaft. I doubt pumped flow is much of a contributor. It’ll help remove heat and debris, but that isn’t lubrication as such.

Shiadoa’s report of “Cosworth engines, rattling badly ( hydraulic Tappets) on tickover.” is an interesting counter-anecdote.

I’d speculate that, if this was on (or shortly after) startup (the situation where 0W oil is supposed to be superior) then it suggests that the 0W oil doesn’t provide sufficient “cushion” for the (sliding?) cams and/or it isn’t reaching the top end to pump-up the tappets, perhaps because the thin oil is leaking back too fast through other bearings, or perhaps through the oil pump itself. This would perhaps be more likely with older, worn/wider tolerance engines.

If this was after the oil has reached operating temperature, then it’d suggest that an oil which has all its viscosity contributed by viscosity index improvers doesn’t provide sufficient “cushion” for the (sliding?) cams.

I dunno, (though I tend to be reactionary about this kind of thing) and if anyone else does, AFAIK they’re keeping quiet about it. Car companies are tending to specify thinner oil, but they have mandatory fleet fuel consumption targets to meet which are intended to carry more weight with them (and with many owners, of course) than prolonging engine life.

Though it doesn’t much help, I can’t help feeling that the specification of OW oil to reduce startup wear is something of a red herring. If car companies cared about startup wear, they’d fit a 50$ prelube system (a one-off capital cost) and we could use straight grade oil.

14

Long story short. We sell Agip/Eni oils and have good relations with the local distributor.
For your car I’d recommend 5w50 unless its blowing smoke on cold start in which case use the 10w40.
Also don’t buy Agip or Eni outside of a garage. they try their best to constantly change their packaging as there are so many people selling dodgy Eni knockoffs. The same goes for Mobil oils too. You will be lucky to find real Eni engine oil for much less that 500 a bottle, unless its fake or it is very old stock.

15

[quote=“sulavaca”]Long story short. We sell Agip/Eni oils and have good relations with the local distributor.
For your car I’d recommend 5w50 unless its blowing smoke on cold start in which case use the 10w40.
Also don’t buy Agip or Eni outside of a garage. they try their best to constantly change their packaging as there are so many people selling dodgy Eni knockoffs. The same goes for Mobil oils too. You will be lucky to find real Eni engine oil for much less that 500 a bottle, unless its fake or it is very old stock.[/quote]

Thank you Sulavaca. The guy at the shop also recommended 5w50 and that’s what I went with. I ended up getting Mobil 1 because I was a little confused as to which Agip to get. The Mobil 1 was cheaper than the 499/bottle Eni and they politely refunded me the difference. They even did the oil change for no extra charge. It was a pretty big accessories store with a 10 or 12 bay service center. I’ve seen Agip in RT-Mart and Mobil 1 in RT-Mart and Costco. Is it the same as garages use or is it some cost-down version like the clothes in Costco and outlet stores back home?

16

I’d have thought big outfits like Costco and RT-Mart would be at least as safe from fake bottles as your average garage.

(Another way of lowering the risk of getting fake stuff would be to buy less expensive oil. :slight_smile:

17

There are different types of Eni engine oil, but the most recent oil is all in Eni packaging. Motor oil manufacturers typically give their oil a shelf life of five years and it is quite common to see outdated oil in old packaging, on the shelves of some outlets. It’s also common, according to Eni to find knockoffs all over the place. I can’t be sure where all the knockoffs may be found exactly. I am informed by Eni to simply advise people to purchase their latest bottles. The later the bottle, the less likelihood that it has been copied. Recently Eni have changed their bottles of 10W40 twice in the last three months. It seems they really are afraid of quite a market of knockoffs.
Mobil one has had it’s issues over the years. I have always been a big Mobil 1 fan as we used to put it in high performance Subarus and never had any issues. They don’t really change their packaging often though and some have had experience with the oil molecules shearing under stresses. It’s hard to say though whether this is an issue with Mobil or an issue with knockoffs.

Motor oil knockoffs are common according to sources. It’s very difficult for the common man to tell the difference at sight between cheap oil, recycled crud and actual high quality oil which is why I recommend getting it from as close to source as possible. Eni Taiwan do not sell to the large warehouse stores I am told.

18

Motor oil manufacturers typically give their oil a shelf life of five years and it is quite common to see outdated oil in old packaging, on the shelves of some outlets.[/quote]

The chemistry will be complex no doubt, but I find it hard to believe that a five-year shelf life isn’t just ass-covering/inventory-shifting on the part of the manufacturer, especially for high-end synthetics.

Its supposed to stand 20k in the harsh physico-chemical environment of an operating car engine, but five years in a sealed container at room temperature (EVEN a Taiwanese room) is game over?

Phooey!

Apart from the fake oil possibility, I wouldn’t have any worries using outdated oil, and I dont see it likely that anyone is going to bother to fake the CPC or Mobil mineral stuff I usually use.

I should have an opportunity to test this on my next oil change, since I have some VERY old Mobil mineral oil that’s been stored on an outside shelf (in sealed bottles). Be interesting to see how it holds up.

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Lubricant Storage Life Limits - Industry Needs a Standard

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Yeh, I’ve read that, though not recently. IIRC you might just as easily conclude from reading it that “industry doesn’t need a standard” since they don’t seem to have one.

If they did have one, it wouldn’t mean that it had any basis in fact. IIRC there is absolutely no evidence presented in that article for on-shelf deterioration of motor oil.

[EDIT after another look]

Its served up as a ready-cooked “given”, with a side order of “The Sky is Falling” panic-salad.

This is strange, because, from their own survey of industry recommendations, there is a notable lack of consensus about this. 1 year to infinity is a pretty wide range.

It suggests that the “editorial” agenda was fixed before they did the survey.

ENDEDIT