Victims of "Microaggressions"

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
61

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Nice contribution SK, still remember we also have families here too and we are usually pretty isolated in Taiwan so we often have to figure these things out ourselves. If we can’t get it off our chests here where can we talk about it.

Listening to the inane conversations on what passes for public transport gets me over my fairytale construction of living back in the West. That and taking a tube ride and seeing all those dead to the world faces!
Yesterday I brought my kid to the playground, nice folks with their kids there, of course my kid gets too much attention sometimes, at one point five adults are staring down at him, so I have to really balance not being rude back to the Taiwanese parents at times as most of them are actually really friendly just overbearing. I did tell one to look at her own kids, didnt go down well but sometimes it has to be said. Interestingly it is the waiguo peiou foreign spouses that chat with me the most easily, guess we have shared experiences.[/quote]

I agree that venting is a good thing, HHII. So is supporting each other. :sunglasses: However, you also need lots of perspectives to stop it becoming racist diatribe. Now if forumosans could only learn to see that debate is essential when people are venting about these sorts of issues it would be one step closer to being a better community.

I also know some of you guys have families in Taiwan, but staying there is a decision, not a forced choice. You could all leave any time you like. But the money, family, whatever, outweigh this other stuff. Vent away, but remember it’s damaging you to keep thinking some of the things you think. Change yourself, get some fresh perspective, open your mind to new ways of thinking about these things.

My 4 year old nephew had the experience of going to his local park and not being able to communicate with the local kids because they spoke Farsi and didn’t speak a lick of English. We thought it was pretty funny. Other people would think it indicative of the degradation of our society. I can go about my day much more smoothly if I adopt the healthy attitude to the situation, rather than go home and start getting all mad about, ‘what’s become of my community,’ blah blah blah.

EDIT: My words there weren’t aimed specifically at you, HH2, just employing the general, “you.” :smiley:

62

ah the condescending tone!
or
ah the West is exactly like the East we just haven’t noticed. How stupud we are! Thanks for the heads-up!

The next time a foreign friend in Europe complains about something - I will just tell him to go home.

63

ah the condescending tone!
or
ah the West is exactly like the East we just haven’t noticed. How stupud we are! Thanks for the heads-up!

The next time a foreign friend in Europe complains about something - I will just tell him to go home.[/quote]

I don’t care about Microaggressions a lot, but, the (you always can go home if you don’t like it), is the mother of Microaggressions.

64

[quote]I don’t care about Microaggressions a lot, but, the (you always can go home if you don’t like it), is the mother of Microaggressions.[/quote] :thumbsup:

add to that that the “just think about those and that people’s situation - they have a much harder deal” routine and we come closeto the mindset of strange people who come to a online bulletin board and shake their heads about people complaining. What’s next? Ah! yes! racism! or is it already on here? Must be somewhere…

65

ah the condescending tone!
or
ah the West is exactly like the East we just haven’t noticed. How stupud we are! Thanks for the heads-up!

The next time a foreign friend in Europe complains about something - I will just tell him to go home.[/quote]

See now you have selected a very very small part of my input into this thread and then chosen to perceive my tone to be condescending and as such have viewed it as an act of aggression. My opinion is not something you need to get worked up about, yet you chose to. You are highlighting the very point that the attitude one displays in a situation is personal. There is no universal truth in how these things should be perceived, only personal opinion. You choose to get worked up, bully for you. You choose to ignore the viewpoints of others regarding these matters, bully for you. But don’t be surprised if these choices lead to thoughts or isolation and separation.

My posts are just opinions, and as such they are uncontainable, unless you choose a container to put them in. Why not put them in a happy bright pink coloured container, with sparkles round the edges? :smiley:

66

Regardless of intent, the ‘treatment’ one gets here at times makes it difficult to not feel like a carnival sideshow or animal at the zoo. I personally don’t let it get to me too much, but it’s also pretty much impossible to walk around feeling like just another human being. Closest you can get is a simulated world you create when you throw on the headphones and go into ignore mode.

I think that’s at the core of what bothers many…you just wanna go outside for all of 10 minutes and not be rubbernecked at, or giggled at, or pointed out (none of which are usually subtly pulled off). You just wanna be ignored as much as everyone else is, like you feel semi-welcome or semi-accepted, at the least.

Obviously the homogeneous culture here creates a situation where anything different sticks out like a sore thumb, but locals don’t have to take their reactions to such moronic extremes either, as if they’re from some isolated tribe in the rainforest without knowledge nor communication of the outside world. Here they got the internets and TVs, no need to look like you just saw a ghost.

So why this seemingly overdone reaction? I think the ones who do it are often so bored with their lives that they got nothing better to do than prod the outsider.

This isn’t to say it happens a ton either, but enough obviously to understand why people get annoyed with it. I don’t think it’s only that, I think it’s that and the general assholish-ness that pervades here. If Taiwan were a clean, competently driven, courteous place to begin with, I doubt anyone would be bothered much by the occasional request for foreign entertainment. But it’s not, and these things add up…these things would wear anyone down, just some faster than others.

1 Like
67

[quote=“touduke”][quote]I don’t care about Microaggressions a lot, but, the (you always can go home if you don’t like it), is the mother of Microaggressions.[/quote] :thumbsup:

add to that that the “just think about those and that people’s situation - they have a much harder deal” routine and we come closeto the mindset of strange people who come to a online bulletin board and shake their heads about people complaining. What’s next? Ah! yes! racism! or is it already on here? Must be somewhere…[/quote]

And there now you call me strange. People DO have harder lives than facing the insufferable, “Can you use chopsticks question.” If you read my posts through you will see I sympathise with your situation. I suggest it happens to me too, and I suggest how you can get out of this mindset. THEN I say that if you still can’t get to grips with it all, maybe Taiwan is not for you. I did not turn up and say, “sheesh, people live in poverty, go home, racist.” Have you framed it that I did that though? :ponder:

The things you choose to read and the way you choose to interpret them are your decisions.

And again, it is ok to vent, but you must make sure that you acknowledge that this is just a little vent and not something that eats away at you inside. Misery loves company.

68

ah the condescending tone!
or
ah the West is exactly like the East we just haven’t noticed. How stupud we are! Thanks for the heads-up!

The next time a foreign friend in Europe complains about something - I will just tell him to go home.[/quote]

I don’t care about Microaggressions a lot, but, the (you always can go home if you don’t like it), is the mother of Microaggressions.[/quote]

I said, “go home for a month.” Have another read. :smiley:

69

let’s measure the aggression level of your post - I give it something between micro and mezzo aggression.

but seriously - I think your whole post was something of a awkward landing - especially comparing the reaction to us Western foreigners with the one to an autoimmune desease on the skin was kind of bumpy.

about “go home for a month” and “reading again” - I’d like to help you with this. You wrote:

70

mups - IMO that’s a very well written post.

71

In the end we have to do what makes us happy, and the good thing about Taiwan is we have the freedom to reinvent ourselves as we wish. Don’t want to integrate and live in your bubble, and play your xbox360, I respect that. Want to chew betelnut and go shrimp fishing and drinking Taiwan pijiu, I respect that too.

Just got to take a deep breath and go all zen on their ass or explode in furious justice and then go get yourself a Taiwan beer.

Do what you can to keep sane and happy, no judgments , no advice.

Only one caveat, people drinking brown bottles of Taiwan beer, you know the one that tastes like they added chemical ethanol?

Yes you dude. Don’t ask me how much I like Taiwan beer and offer me a glass from your brown bottle. That is serious aggression right there. Shengpi or Asahi all the way, you should know better!

72

[quote=“touduke”]let’s measure the aggression level of your post - I give it something between micro and mezzo aggression.

but seriously - I think your whole post was something of a awkward landing - especially comparing the reaction to us Western foreigners with the one to an autoimmune desease on the skin was kind of bumpy.

about “go home for a month” and “reading again” - I’d like to help you with this. You wrote:

Ok, you carry on seeing what you want to see. :smiley:

73

Wow! 7 pages so soon! This thread definitely hit a nerve.

The word micro-aggression - I’m not sure if it is really accurate. In many cases I am sure there is absolutely no aggression intended. In some cases it feels like, “you’re on MY turf boy.”

Nevertheless, it is strange and somewhat uncomfortable to be stared at or chatted up. But I think the problem with it is a lack of empathy. That is, the starer or chatter upper (upchatter?) is apparently not thinking about how the staree or chattee is feeling.

A man is at a river in a park with his kids, playing in the (clean) water. A foreigner (me) walks by. The man stares, thinking: “Huh! A foreigner! Wooowwee!” But he apparently is not thinking, “I’m staring at someone, maybe they feel it is strange.” I stare back, unsmiling. He waves, grinning. He might be thinking, “I want to interact with this guy because he is a foreigner.” But he is not thinking why I would want to interact with him. Because I am a foreigner? Because he is Taiwanese?

So I ignore the wave and smile and go about my business. The guy looks away and stops staring. In the end, he probably thinks I’m a dickhead for being so unfriendly. Too bad, but I am not going to interact with him on the basis that “I am a surprising, entertaining foreigner”.

Was this guy micro-aggressive? I’d say so, a bit. He was in my face.

74

Ah well, some foreigners manage to be happy here, enjoy their lives, Taiwan, the Taiwanese, raising their kids, the whole shebang, despite the fact that they’re living in the same place and having the same experiences as those who complain. I think that says something and I know who I’d rather be.

75

I’m glad you got a chance to feel superior.

For me, it isn’t about being a victim or whining because people are being mean to my kids. It’s about finding a coping strategy to deal with the problem and teaching my kids to stand up to it.

76

I was at the Mcdonalds the other day with an ABC girl (one who clearly looked foreign) out in the boonies of Taipei city (Wanfang) and a small boy was who was next to us said “meiguoren.” The girl I was there with was upset and asked me why he was saying that.

There are basically two courses of action here.

  1. Start pointing at him and going “taiwanren, taiwanren, taiwanren” and be a jerk

  2. laugh and go “nihao” with a wave

I chose the latter, because not only is it not the complete asshole thing to do but clearly someone who says out loud “meiguoren” right next to a foreigner doesnt see many very often. What is the point being a jerk to this kid, he is just going to remember it as “how foreigners act”.

I don’t play cultural representative much but I was drunk. And I guess that is the point. If you cannot handle yourself politely when in a situation that quite frankly happens every day then you need to be drunk all the time. Whiskey sells for under 200NT at 7-11 so you have no excuse, buy a flask today and start enjoying a happy life.

77

TAiwan is a different Planet in so many ways. Takes one 3 years to come to grips with the place. But then if you can take it for 3 years you may end up staying 30 before finally you have built up quite the energy (cuz you just cant take it no more , no more) to blast yourself back OUT of Taiwans gravitational pull.

78

Most of the long timers I know about like to bitch sometimes. They would largely agree about these micro aggressions, sometimes called “subtle racism”.

79

I’m glad you got a chance to feel superior.

For me, it isn’t about being a victim or whining because people are being mean to my kids. It’s about finding a coping strategy to deal with the problem and teaching my kids to stand up to it.[/quote]

This isn’t about being superior or not. What I said is true, and it isn’t just people on these boards, it’s other parents I’ve met in my time here. As I said, I do know exactly what you mean and not only that I’ve had it a lot worse. If you really want to find coping strategies to deal with the problem then look to those people who have found them, that’s all I’m saying.

80

I’m glad you got a chance to feel superior.

For me, it isn’t about being a victim or whining because people are being mean to my kids. It’s about finding a coping strategy to deal with the problem and teaching my kids to stand up to it.[/quote]

This isn’t about being superior or not. What I said is true, and it isn’t just people on these boards, it’s other parents I’ve met in my time here. As I said, I do know exactly what you mean and not only that I’ve had it a lot worse. If you really want to find coping strategies to deal with the problem then look to those people who have found them, that’s all I’m saying.[/quote]

Complaining to your peers IS a coping strategy!