I know this guy who has been teaching this kid for a couple of years now and he had assumed that he was supposed to be teaching him how to “communicate” in English, and that has been going pretty well. Now it turns out he was supposed to be teaching the kid how to pass a test to get into a good high school or some goddamned thing, and while it is true that the kid can now communicate pretty well in English it has to be admitted he doesn’t know a lot of the vocab that appears on the test. “It’s blues baby, if you can’t relax you won’t hear it anyway” isn’t the sort of thing they test for it seems. Stevie Ray Vaughn isn’t quite the iconic historical figure one would imagine apparently. Anyway… My friend was wondering then, is there a list, like the MOE official list: forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … vocab+list or something, except for high school. The kid says he can find the list, or bring the test that he apparently didn’t do so hot on or something, and my friend believes the kid will try because he likes having a teacher who teaches him rock n roll, but my friend thinks he should show up with something of his own next week so they don’t fire his sorry ass.
Aw, man, I thought you was gonna say you had such a list, or a link to it. 'Cause my motto is, “Somebody around here better get their s*** together, and it ain’t gonna be me.”
It’s like oh dark-thirty now, so I need to pay a visit to the realm of Morpheus, but I’ll google and ask around for it tomorrow, or rather, later today. But maybe by then somebody will have produced it for you.
Anyway, did your friend teach that kid to appreciate the pause when Stevie says, “A tisket . . . . . a tasket”? It just wouldn’t be the same without that pause.
My friends feelings exactly. Honest though he says he doesn’t have a thing to teach that kid about music. At least five times now he has played him songs that he knows for sure the kid has never heard before and heard him finish a line, in harmony. Not bad considering his music teacher can neither play a musical instrument nor sing, and does not in fact know the first thing about music, except that he likes it.
Another time the kid put on classical music and my friend realized that what the kid was doing was offering up an example of classical music with rock elements. He didn’t come out and say “Interesting isn’t it how this Lindz from the eighteen century or some godammned thing displays elements characteristic of rock: steady rhythm section, an innovative and catchy hook line,” or anything like that. He just played the CD and looked at his teacher like, getting a clue knucklehead?
My friend taught the kid how to play pool, cook, skate, navigate the city, use a dictionary, write stories, sing along with Carolyn Graham on Small Talk, play monoploy, chess, checkers, charades and scrabble. The kid can run through the language circle like it was a walk in the park, but these skills apparently, are not covered on the test, or perhaps they are, my friend can’t understand anything in the kids textbooks.
Also, my friend had a sneaking suspicion that nobody knew what the vocabularly list was for kids going into high school, and that if they did know they likely charged by the word.
In any event Charles, thank you. Were you, I or anyone to locate the list it would certainly be a blessing and so on…
I “read” through the link supplied by xp+10k in the post linked above and found this…
[quote]The Taiwan MoE’s 1000- and 2000-word list
The underlined words belong to the 1000-word list, which is intended for the English syllabus up to Grade 6 (end of Primary); the whole list is for the syllabus up to Grade 9 (end of Junior High). Thanks to Serena Liang for getting hold of the list…[/quote]
Well, I’m glad you found it, because I didn’t know whether there was some special list (other than the MOE list) for the high school entrance exams. So I learned something, too.
It sounds like your friend is doing a great job with that kid. It doesn’t surprise me that a kid can learn a lot of English and learn it well, and still have some problems with a standardized test. Still, by your description of your friend’s approach, it could sooner or later put him in a very good position to meet just about any challenge in the English language, including tests.
Here’s hoping. The test is in July and makes a big difference to what kind of high school the kid gets into. His mother has been telling me, in Chinese, that the kid can’t remember “all that vocabulary” and I thought she meant “all that vocabulary that I had put in his vocabulary notebook” and that seemed odd to me because actually he does remember most of it and I know he does because we actually use it to accomplish goals. “No, sink the nine first so you can leave the cue down at that end beside the eight” kind of thing. Actually what his mom meant is that he doesn’t do that hot on the tests at school and it is the vocabulary that “they” teach him that he can’t remember. Gotcha, good point. I’ll snap right to it. It’s rather a good job.
Here’s hoping. The test is in July and makes a big difference to what kind of high school the kid gets into. His mother has been telling me, in Chinese, that the kid can’t remember “all that vocabulary” and I thought she meant “all that vocabulary that I had put in his vocabulary notebook” and that seemed odd to me because actually he does remember most of it and I know he does because we actually use it to accomplish goals. “No, sink the nine first so you can leave the cue down at that end beside the eight” kind of thing. Actually what his mom meant is that he doesn’t do that hot on the tests at school and it is the vocabulary that “they” teach him that he can’t remember. Gotcha, good point. I’ll snap right to it. It’s rather a good job.[/quote]
Good luck to your friend, and I hope the kid aces it!
Thanks. I’m guessing he will actually. They all treat him like he is a bit slow and it’s true that he isn’t that confident in speaking. What his family doesn’t get yet is that he actually “enjoys” “listening” to English in context and trying to figure things out. They don’t get how fantastic that is. When he gets over the bit of a block he has with speaking, mainly the notion that he has to have things perfect before opening his mouth, he’ll improve, and quickly. I might not be the one to help him with that so much. I’m not so great at it. What I am seriously good at is improving listening comprehension. Something the kid says they don’t test!
Anyway, I’ll “assess” him by using the words from the list in real world questions, actual questions that I don’t know the answer to, and when I find words he doesn’t know I’ll make another list. We’ll take that vocab list and create a world of stories.
That’s the plan. He’ll learn a lot of vocabulary, and he will hopefully use that knowledge to do better on the test. I don’t presume to teach Taiwanese how to take tests.
Back in the good old days, there was only one textbook, and kids were tested on the words on the textbook and only that. With the open choice for books, the MOE came up with teh bright idea:
1000 words in primary school
2000 words in middle
By the end of high school, poor kid was tested on 7000 (yes, 7000) words. Which means cramming 5000 words in two years.
Has the list been cut? Updated? Adapted to reality? Who knows, but it seems we’ll be going back to the good old days of one book if popular policies in the works prosper.
An official list of words and expressions would make sense if it was a good list and everybody had easy access to it. I’m looking at the MOE list right now and trying it out to see how much I can translate. I’m getting around 70%. I could concievably want to translate another 25% probably so to me it looks alright. But if we can’t assume that the test will have most, or a good deal of the vocab from the list, and only the vocab from the list, it isn’t really an ideal situation. It doesn’t list the expressions people are expected to know either.
Then of course there is the whole grammar problem. Is he supposed to have an understanding of the perfect aspect, in which tenses? Do they over use the passive in all the questions, what? I honestly haven’t a clue.
I guess what I’m asking is, “What’s the best book, and where do I find it?”
We just want to pass the test. Learning the language can come later.
Sorry if I am a little persistant. I’m in a bit of a pickle here and could definitely use some help. I teach adults 99% of the time and not many do official tests, so am working here outside my “area of expertise” lets say.
For all I know, you may already know this, but in case you don’t:
My boss told me that the Chinese-language papers publish the questions and the answers after each high school entrance exam. Some company publishes books containing past English portions of the exams. I think my school has some of those books. If you’d like me to, I’ll ask my boss where she bought them.
[quote=“Charlie Jack”]For all I know, you may already know this, but in case you don’t:
My boss told me that the Chinese-language papers publish the questions and the answers after each high school entrance exam. Some company publishes books containing past English portions of the exams. I think my school has some of those books. If you’d like me to, I’ll ask my boss where she bought them.[/quote]
Yes, Please.
…oh, I’ll need the name as well, in Chinese I imagine, it surely wouldn’t do to publish a book like that with an English name. Nobody would understand it!
Bob, when my son started preparing for this exam a few years ago, we went to the big Eslite bookstore near the city government MRT station and looked through the section on test preparation. Browsing through the books, we found two review book + homework book combinations. We worked through those books and all of the practice questions, covering vocabulary, grammar, reading comprehension, and cloze-type questions.
My son was born and raised as a typical Taiwanese kid. He didn’t have an American father until he was 13, so it’s not like I’ve been reading Dr. Seuss to him since he was a baby. He ended up in the top 2-3 percentile on the English portion of the test.
Next time you’re at a big bookstore, check out the test prep section (on behalf of your friend who tutors this kid, of course). You may find what you need there. Worked for us.
Be careful in choosing the book, because the companies here are really sneaky. First of all, there are still many copies around of the time they were using the One Book. They just reprint it and if you just look at the date…
Same with the ones that say 1000 word list of 2000 word list. Some are updated, some are not. You have to look at the content to tell the difference -again, they reprint old stuff.
To make matters worse, some will mix the Junior Scholastic Aptitude Test -that’s how they called it last time I checked- with the one you get in Taida, the GTPE, GTDE, something like that -another money making scheme-. This will not help a student who just wants to pass his/her test.
Yes, newspapers publish the tests. Then, the publishers print the tests and answers in a booklet and charge for them -though some will give them as free samples. Others mix the tests -old and new- in booklets and sell those too.
By the way, all those old tests are available on line. Free.
Whew! Thanks, Tomas and Icon! It turns out that the books we have at my school are for prep for the college entrance exam. Ivy English puts them out. My boss said that some kid will come to our school next week (current or former student, I don’t know which) and show her a high school entrance exam prep book, presumably for the English portion. The boss says that another company (i.e., other than Ivy English) puts out the high school prep book, but I don’t know.
I asked the secretary about such books, and she mentioned Cheng2 Pin3 Shu1 Dian4 (Eslite; hope I got the tones right), but she didn’t know any titles.
[quote=“Icon”]Yes, newspapers publish the tests. Then, the publishers print the tests and answers in a booklet and charge for them -though some will give them as free samples. Others mix the tests -old and new- in booklets and sell those too.
By the way, all those old tests are available on line. Free.[/quote]
Icon, in the past, I’ve looked online for the old high school entrance exams, and I’ve found portions of the math test, and I may have found parts of the English test, but I wasn’t sure that’s what I was looking at. But I haven’t yet found a site that I’m sure has the whole English portion of past-administered exams.
Do you know what site these past entrance exams might be on? Even if you don’t, I’d be very grateful for any information you could provide.
Good thing you and Tomas showed up, because when I saw the word “da4xue2” in the title of the book my school has, I thought, uh-oh, looks like I won’t be much help today.
Okay, I’m now officially clueless. Earlier, the secretary said that I could find such a book at Eslite. I wasn’t very confident that I could ask for it in Chinese, so I wrote up something and gave it to the secretary to check. She suggested a couple of corrections, and I made them and printed it out. I don’t really know Chinese at all, so that may be the problem.
Anyway, this is what I took to Eslite in Panchiao:
(Please pardon my bad Chinese.) I showed the above to the man at the information desk at Eslite, and he apologized and said, “Mei3you3.” I couldn’t understand everything that he said, but I asked him (or I thought I was asking him) if the big store in Taipei had it. I could have sworn he said, “Mei3you3” again, and that’s very confusing. Maybe I didn’t ask him correctly (about the big Eslite in Taipei).
Or maybe I used the wrong name to describe the exam. I read on the Internet (or again, I thought I read) that the high school entrance exam was abolished in 2001. That’s weird, because we know people are still taking it, or at least they’re taking some kind of high school entrance exam. Maybe it has a different name now?
Then again, I also read that it was abolished in 1957. :s
My boss just said that Ivy English puts out a prep book for the high school entrance exam, contrary to the information I posted earlier in this thread.
Anyway, bob, you might be better off not reading this post; I’m starting to confuse myself!
People don’t believe me I don’t think when I say that I absolutely don’t usually (absolutely don’t usually? anyway…) teach to tests. I don’t know what is on the tests. Nor have I ever, until now, had a student who didn’t do a lot better on whatever language test it was they were taking. That might sound odd but it is exactly true as far as I know. 29/30 on the Toefl Ibit listening section is a pretty good result I think. That’s what my last “tested” student got.
Is it true that the high school entrance exam doesn’t even have a listening comprehension section? How in God’s name could you have a meaningful language test without a listening comprehension section?
People don’t believe me I don’t think when I say that I absolutely don’t usually (absolutely don’t usually? anyway…) teach to tests. I don’t know what is on the tests. Nor have I ever, until now, had a student who didn’t do a lot better on whatever language test it was they were taking. That might sound odd but it is exactly true as far as I know. 29/30 on the Toefl Ibit listening section is a pretty good result I think. That’s what my last “tested” student got.
Is it true that the high school entrance exam doesn’t even have a listening comprehension section? How in God’s name could you have a meaningful language test without a listening comprehension section?[/quote]
Well, I’ll try again tomorrow to see if I can find out more about prep materials. I can’t help but believe that I must have miscommunicated to the person at the information desk at the Panchiao Eslite. The Eslite in Taipei is huge, and if I recall rightly, a large area of it is devoted to preparation materials for various examinations. I can’t imagine that they don’t have materials for preparation for this test.
Also, if previous tests are available online, maybe we can find out the URL(s).
