I still can’t understand how or why the term VS. (versus), which in standard English means against, or opposing, as in a sports contest or a debate – Bush vs. Kerry, Boston vs. New York – but here in Taiwan, VS has come to mean “and”.
THere was a recent film festival here called the Taiwan Vs India Film Festival and all the newpapers used the same INCORRECT term in English, too.
Then today, I spotted the same usage in Japan, on a website there,
パックン VS. シャノン対談 – it says, and the meaning is also AND…
So again, does anyone know, can VERSUS or VS. be used in ENglish, in real English, not in fake Japlish or CHinglish, as ‘‘AND’’?
And if not, and of course not, then how and why did this thing happen here? The evidence today from japan points out that maybe this incorrect usage came over here from Japan during the Occupation 1895-1945. And now the Taiwanese use this incorrectly all the time.
A jaz pub called JASS VS. MUSIC for example in Taoyuan.
The film festival promoted as INDIA Vs. TAIWAN FILM FESTIVAL
So then we did the Taipei Times, the Taiwan News and the CNA all use it incorrectly when their reporters wrote about the “India Vs. Taiwan Film Festival.” ??? If it’s wrong, then why do editors at English publications let it go through? That’s my real question, Tetsuo…
It should have been called the India-Taiwan Film Festival. Easy!
What Quirky said - it wasn’t their decision. It was part of the festival’s name - in a case like that, it’s not up to journalists or editors to second-guess the people running the thing, no matter how wrong those people might be.
I’m a Taiwanese. I agree that this misusage of v.s. is probably related to Japanese, but the relationship cannot be traced as far back as the Japanese occupation period. I found this misusage increasing when I was a high school student (10+ years ago). I suspect this might came along with the popularity of Japanese video games such as Street Fighters. Teenagers saw characters seperated by “v.s.” on the screen not knowing its reall meaning and conceived it as a word meaning “against” and “comparison,” or just “and”.
Another point I have noticed is the increasing cases of using football terminology P.K. (in fact, it should be penalty shootout) to mean one-on-one challenge. This might begin from a variety show “Super Sunday” where entertainers played game called P.K.
Sometimes music songs, especially remixes, use Vs in this way. e.g. DJ X Vs The Teletubbies, wherein rather than indicating direct opposition, Vs suggests a combination of contrasting styles to create a new style with distinct and novel aspects.
If the festival was to compare Taiwanese and Indian film making and to showcase attempts to combine techniques of one with the other, say for example traditional Chinese wire effects used in a traditional Indian song and dance routine, or an Indian story retold using Taiwanese story telling techniques and perspectives, then it is OK to use Vs as it is in the festival name.
[quote=“Rik”]Sometimes music songs, especially remixes, use Vs in this way. e.g. DJ X Vs The Teletubbies, wherein rather than indicating direct opposition, Vs suggests a combination of contrasting styles to create a new style with distinct and novel aspects.
[/quote]
Please don’t use music as any sort of example of proper english, especially the trash the usually appears in Hip Hop. And even when used in Hip Hop, it still implies a competition of sorts as the various entertainers ‘compete’ to show the listerner who’s best.
and Tetsuo wrote: “What Quirky said - it wasn’t their decision. It was part of the festival’s name - in a case like that, it’s not up to journalists or editors to second-guess the people running the thing, no matter how wrong those people might be.”
I disagree, respectfully of course. True, the festival committee itself came up with the stupid incorrect name in English, with the VS. in there, BUT it is the job of English-speaking editors, copyeditors, consultants, to correct this incorrect English usage. No?
If the committe spelled India wrong, would you leave it that way? If the committee spelled Taiwan as “Tywon” would you leave it that way?
I think someone should have corrected it before it went to print. True, the press release said it that way, but why repeat mistakes?
Thanks for the music reference, didn’t know that. Interesting hip hop stuff.
and thanks for the PK reference and video games VS reference
and thanks for all the dictionary listings
“as contrasted with” is a nice definition for VS, but this also means a kind of opposition, and certainly NOT an AND…
So we are back to square one again.
This incorrect usage of VS. started some time back, not sure when
it continues today (in fact, today, the United Daily News, page 2)
it will never be stamped out until [fill in the correct words here]
[quote=“rooftop”]That was the name of the Festival. Not up to the newspapers to editorialize a name.
In the case of a typo, that could be fact checked and ammended if it were in fact, a typo.
Imagine your user name were your real name, but you spelled it ‘lain’. Someone wrote a story about you but corrected it to “lane”. Not (K) kosher.[/quote]
Good point. But THAT was not the name of the festival, that was the Chinglish name of the festival. Someone needs to stop this shit!
Lain
PS: this reminds me, maybe we should ask the British writer VS Pritchet what he thinks about this issue. He should know!
Chinglish or not, that was its name. Ours is not to question why…
And picture this - some well-meaning reporter decides to correct the name. The people in charge of the festival take offense at this blatant show of “I know better than you” and refuse to deal with the paper ever again. What if the organizers are big shots in some area? What if they tell their sponsors, who then also take umbrage? What if they’re pissed enough at this that they complain loudly to the head honchos at the paper?
Over a stupid little thing like “vs” being misused? You need to pick your battles.
Chinglish or not, that was its name. Ours is not to question why…
And picture this - some well-meaning reporter decides to correct the name. The people in charge of the festival take offense at this blatant show of “I know better than you” and refuse to deal with the paper ever again. What if the organizers are big shots in some area? What if they tell their sponsors, who then also take umbrage? What if they’re pissed enough at this that they complain loudly to the head honchos at the paper?
Over a stupid little thing like “vs” being misused? You need to pick your battles.[/quote]
You are so right. I have picked mine. “Lane versus VS”
More examples from local press:
田壘VS.孫悅 < More >
王心凌VS張紹涵手機鈴聲下載
紫禁之巔vs撞球小子手機圖
環保再生vs藝術品
古蹟仙vs老夫子
犬夜叉 vs 亂馬1/2
Takako VS Tokiwa
台灣vs印度影展
拿鐵V.S卡布其諾
櫻VS狼派 吉祥水
族VS老鼠魚
台灣VS東歐影展
變頻器DC、VS馬達控制器
西洋V.S.本土天后
Western Queen V.S. Local Queen
Some of these appear to be correct. A colleague and I are finding it an acceptible switch of meaning to go from vs. meaning verses to meaning “as opposed to” or “in contrast to.” Then, it becomes only a slight bend of the conscious to allow it to mean “compared and contrasted to.”
That’s how Taiwanese think, and that’s how we HAVE to think in such a pluralistic and conflicting society.
Our analysis of the ones we could identify:
王心凌VS張紹涵手機鈴聲下載
in comparison to (quantitative)
紫禁之巔vs撞球小子手機圖
in comparison to (quantitative)
環保再生vs藝術品
either A or B [translation: (To prevent global warming) you can recycle or make art]
古蹟仙vs老夫子
in comparison/contrast to
犬夜叉 vs 亂馬1/2
in comparison/contrast to
Takako VS Tokiwa
in comparison
台灣vs印度影展
in contrast to (this it the film festival one for those who can’t read Chinese)
拿鐵V.S卡布其諾
in comparison/contrast to
櫻VS狼派 吉祥水
in comparison to
台灣VS東歐影展
in contrast to (this another film festival?)
變頻器DC、VS馬達控制器
in comparison/contrast to (as in products, to see which is better)
西洋V.S.本土天后
in contrast to
Western Queen V.S. Local Queen
(translation of above)
Please don’t use music as any sort of example of proper english, especially the trash the usually appears in Hip Hop. And even when used in Hip Hop, it still implies a competition of sorts as the various entertainers ‘compete’ to show the listerner who’s best.