I’m not bitter that Japan lost. But Taiwan was already part of Japan long before ww2, and fought together as a nation in ww2. US and China were enemies of Taiwan.[/quote]
Had Japan won WW2, the radicals in the IJA would have thought it meant their invasions and brutal suppression of freedoms both within Japan and especially abroad were the correct course to success. That was a group of people who would kill and murder anyone that disagreed with them, including their own emperor even. There’s no way anyone would have come out better down that NAZI-IJA-won-it-all road. Not that Japan had it in them to win the war after Midway anyway.[/quote]
We (the US) couldn’t even cut off Hirohito’s head. No Shogun could either. What makes you think the IJA could?
From a right wing Japanese perspective, vast parts of Asia should be grateful that the IJA “liberated” them from Western colonialism. Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philipines, Indonesia, even Shanghai to some extent. While the Western Powers tried to revive their colonial rule after WW2, they were so weak mostly that the former colonies achieved full independence thereafter. By similar “logic” I guess many Asians should also be grateful to the Germans for so thoroughly wrecking Europe that the former colonials didn’t have their old strength.
The credit for democracy and independence belongs to the people of the former colonial territories, not the governments that wracked them with martial law, state violence, the suppression of people struggling for democratic rule.
I’m not bitter that Japan lost. But Taiwan was already part of Japan long before ww2, and fought together as a nation in ww2. US and China were enemies of Taiwan.[/quote]
Holy crap…
I’m not bitter that Japan lost. But Taiwan was already part of Japan long before ww2, and fought together as a nation in ww2. US and China were enemies of Taiwan.[/quote]
Holy crap…[/quote]
Yeah, I’m having a hard time following sofun here. . . Even if Taiwan prospered under a hypothetical Japanese victory the horrors that Japan visited upon China and the rest of Asia were just too great and terrible to make a Japanese victory seem “right”.
I’m not bitter that Japan lost. But Taiwan was already part of Japan long before ww2, and fought together as a nation in ww2. US and China were enemies of Taiwan.[/quote]
Holy crap…[/quote]
Yeah, I’m having a hard time following sofun here. . . Even if Taiwan prospered under a hypothetical Japanese victory the horrors that Japan visited upon China and the rest of Asia were just too great and terrible to make a Japanese victory seem “right”.[/quote]
I think you’re confusing morality with history (or alternative history).
There are many ways hostility could have ended, or militarism regime subverted(eg. LTH got rid of hardcore Chinese nationalists). In retrospect, for Taiwan, Japan’s defeat brought the Chinese occupation which caused far worse destruction to Taiwan. And because of this, I wouldn’t cheer for Japan’s defeat either as if I were one of the Chinese or identified with the Chinese.
Personally I wouldn’t call the following “great” because it was clearly indiscriminate bombing on a city that could have killed my grandparents. Not that I’d call Japan’s invasion into China great either.
[quote=“Zhengzhou2010”]
Yeah, I’m having a hard time following sofun here. . . Even if Taiwan prospered under a hypothetical Japanese victory the horrors that Japan visited upon China and the rest of Asia were just too great and terrible to make a Japanese victory seem “right”.[/quote]
And the problem is the assumption of Taiwan “prospering” under the hypothetical Japanese victory is false to begin with. With said victory, even Japan wouldn’t prosper under those radical IJA leaders. To stay in power, those IJA leaders would need endless war to justify their control over everything, or they need to politically purge of challengers to them staying in power during peace time. Either way, there is no stable and sustainable outcome down that road, and Taiwan would suffer greatly, as would the rest of the world.
[quote=“Dirt”]
We (the US) couldn’t even cut off Hirohito’s head. No Shogun could either. What makes you think the IJA could?[/quote]
Some in the IJA were trying to locate and destroy the emperor’s surrender recording before it was released. If they succeeded, and the emperor continued to push for surrender, they had plans to off the emperor and appoint someone else to the position.
Oh, and in the past, many Japanese emperors were killed. Sushun Tennō was assassinated. Kōbun tennō lost a war and killed himself. Junnin Tennō lost a war and died en route to banishment. Kōken Tennō was possible assassinated. Sutoku Tennō was banished. Antoku Tennō lost a war and drowned. There are probably more. Not sure what you mean by “No Shogun could either”.
What’s with this obsession with the IJA? I mean, given their Shogun history, Japan has for a very large part of their history been militaristic. And given Shinzo Abe’s visits to Yasakuni Shrine, Japan is still dangerous. Or at the very least, unrepentant.
[quote=“Gain”][quote=“Dirt”]
Right. Because the Allied Powers kicked their butts. The Japanese enjoy freedom and democracy today due in part to the efforts of the Republic of China. Japan and Taiwan both owe the ROC a debt for the free and democratic societies they have today.[/quote]
[/quote]
I wish no one had ever fought any wars and I wish no one ever would in the future. But since war is what is being discussed in this part of the thread: based on what little I know, Chinese soldiers certainly made great sacrifices and contributed substantially to the Allied war effort in World War II, and they were especially effective in Burma once they had been trained:
[quote]The Chinese army in India . . . is a highly trained crack army to which we should give our close attention.[/quote]–Hideki Tojo, Prime Minister of Japan goo.gl/XYNbqj
[quote]Thank God we don’t speak Chinese, and we don’t have interpreters. We demonstrate and they copy. They are the greatest mimics in the world and are learning very fast.[/quote]–Colonel G. W. Sliney, artillery instructor for the Chinese Army during Stillwell’s second Burma campaign goo.gl/3e7hTc
[quote][The Chinese troops] have been grand. . . . Their tails are up and they tear into the [Japanese] with full confidence that they can beat the hell out of them. It is what you may call very satisfying to say the least.[/quote]–Lieutenant General Joseph Stilwell goo.gl/Z2t993
[quote]The Chinese are the bravest soldiers I have ever seen. With the little training they have had I must take my hat off to them for what they have accomplished. They have got guts. I am willing to go anywhere with them.[/quote]–Colonel Rothwell H. Brown, Commander of the Chinese-American 1st Provisional Tank Group cbi-theater-6.home.comcast.net/~ … /1ptg.html
Wang doesn’t have a chance. Right now, it looks like English Tsai can go into hibernation for the next 6 months and still be elected the next President.
It’s hard to discuss what happened in the WW2 China and Pacific theaters without discussing the IJA. A topic you repeatedly bring up in different threads by claiming it was ROC or CKS who won the Pacific war. Many of such threads has nothing to do with WW2 or CKS, say a thread about Wang Jin-pyng.
Shogun is simply another term for warlords, are you saying a country with a history warlords means it is too militaristic? And if such country’s leader visits their shrine for their fallen warriors, which includes fallen warriors during their invasion of other countries, then they are still dangerous? Say like this?
That’s Xi last Sept. 30th, dedicating flowers to commemorate China’s fallen warriors.
i guess you would be right if not for this.
As far as I know, that country above is not in the least bit dangerous.
Does anybody know how long ago Wang actually faced the electorate, meaning when was the last time he got directly elected to the LFY not being an at-large legislator?
