No offense, but that sounds to me like a pretty dumb, inaccurate thing to be telling people[/quote]
Well, I’m a Brit, so I sort of speak English, but every expat American I’ve ever met, in Taiwan, the UK and around the world, has been gracious, polite, and well-mannered. You just don’t see this in people from other places. It could be that you export all the nice ones, but seriously, I’ve never spoken to a Merican that hasn’t been really great, and not in a cheesy’Quiet American’ way, either.
Most Americans I have known have been friendly with good manners. Can say the same for some other nationalities. That includes Americans I met in the US. In fact some of the friendliest people I have ever met were Americans.
Sure it’s fairly superficial usually but many are genuine too.
I think we often view Taiwan as a country (which it for all intents and purposes is) but when you look at the behavior of the people, their views on outsiders (especially the brown dongnanya variety) etc. Taiwan resembles more of an island province rather than an industrialized nation. People who live on islands look at the world, and outsiders a bit differently, and it is also quite fair to say Taiwanese are a very provincial lot.
I’m from an island aswell and the attitudes of Taiwanese now is similar to our attitudes to foreigners up to about 20 years ago. After more EU integration it’s fair to say our island mentality mostly (though definitely not completely) disappeared.
Taiwan’s diplomatic isolation along with paucity of westerners passing through makes it difficult for things to change.
Yet another factor are ingrained racial stereotypes which stop Taiwan from interacting more with SE Asians, with who they do they have quite a few things in common. Again Chinese pressure in ASEAN will not help things.
Throughout my travels no China related place is truly friendly like Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan or China itself. They’re all cold societies. Out of the bunch, Taiwan is the fake friendliest. Their friendliness is insecurity masked, and motivated by the fact that they don’t want you to say anything bad about them.
No offense, but that sounds to me like a pretty dumb, inaccurate thing to be telling people[/quote]
You’re right. I missed an important detail, and it does sound stupid without it.
I tell my students that Americans in the US are not polite to people, and they’re even less polite if you (that is, the visitors) don’t speak English. If they travel to the US, they should expect a lot of people to demand quick, comprehensible responses and move along.
Even in places where US workers should generally be sympathetic to English language difficulties, I find that they are not. Customs officers at international airports in the US have been rather impatient with non-native English speakers, for instance.
I’m from the Southwestern US, where there are disproportionately many Spanish speakers going about their day-to-day lives. I couldn’t count the number of times that I’ve been in line at WalMart, or Baja Fresh, where nth-generation American cashiers are visibly miffed by anyone who doesn’t speak perfectly intelligible English to complete the transaction and get the hell out of the line. They used to be more awful than usual at the DMV, too, until they started hiring bilingual staff.
And I could contrast that with the Latin marketplaces that dot the landscape, where Central American retailers and service workers were quite friendly and polite with me, even when I committed some major errors in my Spanish. The same was true at Asian grocery stores.
Here I find that people from the US are disproportionately personable and friendly.
No offense, but that sounds to me like a pretty dumb, inaccurate thing to be telling people[/quote]
You’re right. I missed an important detail, and it does sound stupid without it.
I tell my students that Americans in the US are not polite to people, and they’re even less polite if you (that is, the visitors) don’t speak English. If they travel to the US, they should expect a lot of people to demand quick, comprehensible responses and move along.
Even in places where US workers should generally be sympathetic to English language difficulties, I find that they are not. Customs officers at international airports in the US have been rather impatient with non-native English speakers, for instance.
I’m from the Southwestern US, where there are disproportionately many Spanish speakers going about their day-to-day lives. I couldn’t count the number of times that I’ve been in line at WalMart, or Baja Fresh, where nth-generation American cashiers are visibly miffed by anyone who doesn’t speak perfectly intelligible English to complete the transaction and get the hell out of the line. They used to be more awful than usual at the DMV, too, until they started hiring bilingual staff.
And I could contrast that with the Latin marketplaces that dot the landscape, where Central American retailers and service workers were quite friendly and polite with me, even when I committed some major errors in my Spanish. The same was true at Asian grocery stores.
Here I find that people from the US are disproportionately personable and friendly.[/quote]
Thanks for the explanation. First of all, Customs officers and DMV workers are dicks to everyone, and walmart employs a wide range of rejects. Secondly, I grew up on the west coast and lived in the southwest several years. I got snubbed just as much for not knowing Spanish as I ever witnessed the opposite. Spanish speakers have taken over entire communities and expect EVERYONE to accommodate them with Spanish. They’re even worse about it than the foreigners in Taiwan that complain it’s hard to find someone to service their needs in decent English
English is the default language foreigners use to communicate with each other, the “international language.” Some of us are fortunate enough that the international language is also our mother tongue. If Spanish were the international language, then yes, I agree, Americans in general should do more to work on their Spanish. Nevertheless, at this point almost everything is serviced bilingually in the U.S. anyway. However, since Spanish is not the international language and they’re living in an English speaking country, they should expect to have communication problems whenever they leave their Mexican enclave until they learn better English. I knew some Mexicans that had lived in California for 20 or even 30 years and didn’t even know basic English. Most of them told me I should learn better Spanish :neutral: I have no sympathy for them, just like I have no sympathy for foreigners that have lived here 5 years and complain everything is in Chinese.
On a different note, besides customs, which I already acknowledged as pricks, I think most tourists and foreign visitors would find American attitudes towards them just fine. I’ve helped foreigners that had less than perfect English and have seen fellow Americans do the same. Usually the visitors in the U.S. carry a bigger attitude and are more prone to rudeness than the locals. I’ve witnessed that myself as well, although my sample range is a bit limited. They were mostly Chinese and Europeans 
I guess if I were British having lived in the U.S. I might have a different take on the subject 
But I think you are right in saying most in the service sector will not want to entertain a lot of time on miscommunication, especially if there’s a line of people waiting. I’d say it’s fair to say Taiwanese service workers are more likely to be more patient with Americans with bad Chinese than when the roles are reversed. Americans are certainly less likely to say “掰掰” after you buy something 
Being friendly and being a friend are not the same thing.
You mean the friendliness here is a form of friendliness. 
[/quote]
I would disagree. Being friendly does indicate being open and a willingness to interact beyond just being polite. Politeness and generosity, no mstter how abundant, by itself isn’t true friendliness. Not everybody here is like that, but in my experience, very few are truly open and really want to form any sort of friendship beyond superficial pleasantries.
I am not sure what you mean by your last sentence. :eh:
Being a Brit I think we are kinda friendly, not sure if U are in London though.
Im often told by Taiwanese that British are serios serious but hey they also think I sound like a Yank ! Not that that
is a bad thing particularly but I sound nothing like one.
The ignorance is bliss is so true. Stereotyping is easy to do. I would never go round promoting the Brits are friendly
not that we arent but it would just seem a little weird to me to do that.
We can be a friendly lot but we also have our other sides.
Anyway great reading your answers,views, thoughts on this.
ah… Baja Fresh
I miss it… also Rubios, Wahoos, La Salsa… I am sure I am missing a couple of them…
I am missing the point of your post.
I can attest to every single one of those. But I think it still more depends on the person. But hwne it does happen no one would say a thing about it, so maybe that’s the problem.
Many do in the Southwest… as least many do in El Paso.
Americans are uber-polite in general. Nowhere I’ve been like it. Sir!
“Good. Then tell your government to not put a hiring freeze on them.”
New Zealand came in at number 2??? Wow. Really? Did they go to real cities or just the tourist hot spots where the entire local economy is built around that attraction? Of course they’re gonna be friendly, you’re putting money in their pocket.
New Zealand is pretty friendly. But everyone I’ve asked for help here has been ridiculously helpful, I even had one kind gentleman miss his bus so he could give me directions. Except for some shitty manners and bad road and footpath etiquette the people here are pretty top notch (so far).
There are time to be impolite, of course if attacked, one should take appropriate action. On the other hand, I want to address the young (Jr or Sr High school students that see me, or you, taking a break from classes. Usually, they will rush up and want to have a conversation in English. Beyond the fact that I am on a break from teaching, I choose not to, not only because I don’t want to, but also because I know this student’s mother and father have taught them not to talk to strangers. Yet, Bushiban teachers suggest to find relaxing foreigner and have a conversation. Those who have been here awhile may recall the English teacher that offered a free lesson at his motel room. Well, you can imagine what happened. To these students I am RUDE! And I remind them that they should NOT NOT talk to strangers. I don’t care if I piss them off. I might be saving them from some other more serious problems.
Sorry, to my foreign bushiban students, follow your parent’s advice. JMHO
“Good. Then tell your government to not put a hiring freeze on them.”
[/quote]
it hasnt…!
Yeh the polite or not, I mean Taiwanese can be so rude its unbelievable! I get treated like shit. But hey Brits have that aswell.
I was more on why do they self promote so much. I dont get it. Where does it come from. Is it coz they ran away from China, so all their past relatives were chicken shit cowards and just ran away and then they have been invaded so many times, never won, this history of losing and getting their a***s whipped that has made them ubber superficially friendly, shy, fear orientated.>?? Hey Im just guessing here.
I also read from someone replying that they arent particularly to each other. So it is their effort to be more international? Like them dishing money out to all these little countries only to be told later on or the next day after getting the money that they are not friends with them, China has stepped in.??
Ive found other countries much more friendly and I never once heard them say “Oh we are so friendly to foreigners”
UK, I think you’ve really reduced the entire country down to an overly simplified caricature there. And a not terribly accurate one, either.
Here’s my best guess: Taiwan loves making global headlines, probably because it’s one of the few ways it can participate in the rest of the world (even if it’s a very shallow way of doing so). Whenever anyone writes an article or a news story on Taiwan, people go berserk. It’s not unusual for the news to report “The Economist writes an article on Taiwan;” “CNN reports on Taiwan.” Yes, Taiwan news reports on that CNN reports on Taiwan. It’s pretty silly.
What do you think most people who visit have to say? Friendly people, safe place, convenient, good food. Bloggers, travel show hosts, reporters, foreign dignitaries… you name it, everyone lists these things (and I don’t blame them). Given how super self-conscious Taiwan is about how it’s been reported on, you can bet that people see and hear all of these reports and take it to heart.
So I posit it’s not as simple as “I think we’re nice so I’m going to tell everyone about it.” It’s more like: “Foreigners say we’re nice, so we should proud of it! Let’s make sure everyone knows!” They’re just repeating what they’ve been told, like everyone else in the world who gets manipulated by an unscrupulous media industry.
The “Tawainese are so friendly” thing does seem to get repeated a lot by foreigners. Check out this article about a Malaysian guy who went psycho and jumped to his death while in Taiwan:
thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?fi … sec=nation
[quote]A digital camera, found at the platform where Lim was believed to have fallen from, recorded the moment when he fell.
The recording before that was of him apologising to the people of Taiwan and saying that the Taiwanese were very friendly.[/quote]
They are fake friendly because they don’t want you to say anything adverse about Taiwan. Their “friendliness” is just another aspect of their face saving. I see right through it. Over it. Friendly compared to who? No offshoot of China is particularly friendly…Singapore, Hong Kong, or Taiwan.