What is holding up Taiwan becoming a real developed country?

I can see why it would be ranked higher than Spain and Italy. There are many things people enjoy in Taiwan that’s unheard of in those places.

So does that mean Spain and Italy are developing countries?:thinking:

Many parts definitely seem that way if you’re not a tourist in tourist areas. Perhaps developing is not the best word. But I can definitely see many areas that they are far behind in Taiwan in.

Some places feel like they’re decades behind in technology. They definitely have an old world feel to it, but it’s part of preserving culture. They can’t exactly rebuild a new modern city. They seem to not have the obsession of the newest technology as much as say Taiwan. And like doing things the old way, not that it’s a bad thing in some ways. It’s a nice change doing things like taking your time and enjoying. Not faster! More convenient!

Here are a couple:

  • Prehistoric banking regulations and practices.
  • Chinglish. As enjoyable as it is to read, it vastly boosts the confidence of the international community (tourists, investors, buyers, business contract signers, etc.) when written information is presented in real English. If they don’t make the minimal effort it takes to get their English checked over by native speakers, how much effort do they put into the quality of their products?
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That Headhoncho II guy was pretty smart (on a good day). Hope he’s still around.

One thing he didn’t focus on much in his OP was elementary school education . I feel the govt needs to put a lot more $$$ into this. Most schools except for in Taipei city don’t have air-conditioning in the classroom. Taiwan is getting hotter all the time ! The drainage systems are poor so how do you prevent dengue?
Then the toilets need to be upgraded in many because they are old and unsanitary.

Teaching to the test is endemic from 1st grade and it just gets worse. The teacher pupil ratio is not high compared to some countries (25:1), but it should be 20:1 given that birth rates have dropped so much.
Too many hours are spent in school wasted on pretend culture or English or minority languages classes where they learn almost nothing . They should be able to do more projects and also learn subjects in more detail.

The kids need more vacation days. For instance they don’t get mid term breaks ! It’s handy for parents who also don’t have enough time off but they are spending too much time hothoused in school. They need more outdoor time.

Not everything is bad about the schools though, big schools have a lot of clubs and activities.

I was actually surprised to learn that half of the classrooms in Japan don’t have AC either. It’s really hot there in summer too.

I’m surprised it’s 25:1 now because when I was in primary school it was 35:1.

Probably busy with work and family, right? :wink:

Regarding an answer to the question asked, it’s… culture and the way society works. Things tend to stay as they are for longer here, fewer and slower improvements. South Korea was also heavily influenced by Confucianism but scores above Taiwan in terms of HDI.

Edit: The amount of work a government gets done here during one term feels really small, compared to other developed countries. So the way government works here is a big factor as well, I believe.

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Yes I believe it was up to 50 a classroom in some places.
Still I read before that the biggest factor in education success is pupil teacher ratio! Since birth rates have dropped off a cliff I think they can still do better and then this would have a big impact down the line…

Yeah one thing I’ve noticed about Taiwan, and my ex boss told me …It’s easier to upgrade the hardware than the software.
Culturally Taiwan seems to change slowly. A lot of old people in charge.

Government policies too…Very very rare to have any big changes. You know like where stuff is banned or legalised overnight. Thinking that the smoking ban was the biggest one in the last 20 years.

With the new referendum laws we might see a bit speedier action.

They scored lower this year lol. Just by a hair though. We got like 0.907 or something and Korea got like .903.

Btw it’s kinda impossible to ask for a big government in Taiwan when it’s fiscally very conservative.

Sorry, I was probably referring to an older data set. Would also like to add that Taiwan self reports its data.

To me that is the most annoying thing. Taiwan doesn’t look developed and I agree that its more about function than being aesthetically pleasing. I think part of the ugliness is due to Taiwan becoming rich recently though I don’t know how much of it can be attributed to that. Does the government have any incentive plans for rebuilding older buildings?

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They have tried all kinds of carrots but I think it is time for the stick. Every time I see one of those precarious Lego pileups hanging by will alone, top heavy, in crowded alleys with hanging power lines and even lower hanging Japanese era power lightposts, I think, OMG, we are doomed if an earthquake strikes. sadly, an Act of God might be our only hope. People are still waiting for the Chinese to come over and buy their properties for a gazillion zillion. Sigh…

I’ve read that it’s not as clear-cut - which is counter-intuitive to me, because I feel like I manage to do much more with students in smaller classes. I just did a quick Google search and found a few articles about how smaller class sizes are better, but they’ve got sentences like “In grades K-3, smaller class sizes of no more than 18 students per teacher showed the greatest academic achievement levels.” OK, sure, but to me that suggests that children from richer families with a better support network go to richer schools with smaller class sizes and therefore do better at school.

From an Economist article a few years ago - of course, the Economist never met a program it didn’t want to make more efficient (emphasis added):

In a study updated last year, John Hattie of the University of Melbourne crunched the results of more than 65,000 research papers on the effects of hundreds of interventions on the learning of 250m pupils. He found that aspects of schools that parents care about a lot, such as class sizes, uniforms and streaming by ability, make little or no difference to whether children learn (see chart). What matters is “teacher expertise”.

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Short video about what’s holding Taiwan back. All reasons already mentioned in this thread though :grin: The skills mismatch is highlighted a couple of times.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/cnainsider/how-the-taiwan-tiger-lost-its-roar-and-its-young-talents-10888550?fbclid=IwAR1mpX-MQbGnkb0wM8nEt4A1FcBMxWlk63lM0h4ejzObWO9DZ4-myE-V0i0

I like the quote from the lady interviewed near the end of the video, who moved to Singapore. “Once you are exposed to the international market and its opportunities, it is difficult to move back to Taiwan.”

A leader with real vision would, for example, designate large swaths of New Taipei City into a large park. Specifically those factory areas on the riverbanks of Sanxia, Shulin, Yingge, Tucheng. The area is a natural lush oasis with perfect climate for an amazing garden/park incorporating the river and existing wildlife…those wonderful white crane type birds and other larger type birds.

Government would give those illegal polluting eye sore factories 10 years to pack up and move, help with incentives and move to new industrial areas, early retirement, etc…whatever it takes. Thousands of jobs needed to maintain park

The MRT will be ready in those areas over next 5-8 years. Build a huge park into the natural landscape with rolling hills rivers etc and several mrt stops would go to various locations along the park. 10 times the size of Da an. A place where hundreds of thousands of people can properly relax on weekends

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This is a great idea. I know exactly the area you are talking about which is full of hundreds to thousands of illegal tiepi Wu factories discharging position into the tasmhui river.

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NIMBY, move all them factories to Yunlin.

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I would tear down the whole of Zhonghe. Its abysmal. Was just there today. Taipei till I die, I hate leaving the city

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