[quote]Key excerpts from the U.N. indictment charging
Slobodan Milosevic and several cronies with crimes against humanity during
Kosovo’s 1998-1999 war:
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_Throughout Kosovo, the forces of the FRY (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia) and Serbia have looted and pillaged the personal and commercial property belonging to Kosovo Albanians forced from their homes. Policemen, soldiers, and military officers have used wholesale searches, threats of force and acts of violence to rob Kosovo Albanians of money and valuables, and in a systematic manner, authorities at the FRY border have stolen personal vehicles and other property from Kosovo Albanians being deported from the province.
_Throughout Kosovo, the forces of the FRY and Serbia have engaged in a systematic campaign of destruction of property owned by Kosovo Albanian civilians. This has been accomplished through the widespread shelling of towns and villages; the burning of homes, farms, and businesses; and the destruction of personal property. As a result of these orchestrated actions, villages, towns and entire regions have been made uninhabitable for Kosovo Albanians.
_Throughout Kosovo, the forces of the FRY and Serbia have harassed, humiliated, and degraded Kosovo Albanian civilians through physical and verbal abuse. Policemen, soldiers and military officers have persistently subjected Kosovo Albanians to insults, racial slurs, degrading acts, beatings and other forms of physical mistreatment based on their racial, religious and political identification.
_Throughout Kosovo, the forces of the FRY and Serbia have systematically seized and destroyed the personal identity documents and licenses of vehicles belonging to Kosovo Albanian civilians … These actions have been undertaken in order to erase any record of the deported Kosovo Albanians’ presence in Kosovo and to deny them the right to return to their homes.
Under the auspices of the much-reviled United Nations International Criminal Court at The Hague:
“Subjecting US persons to [the ICC] treaty, with its unaccountable prosecutor and its unchecked judicial power, is clearly inconsistent with American standards of constitutionalism. Specifically, the ICC is an organization that runs contrary to fundamental American precepts and basic constitutional principles of popular sovereignty, checks and balances, and national independence.”
– John R Bolton, U.S. ambassador to the U.N.
Yep, another of those evil followers of that vicious murderous religion…
Oh, that’s right- the worst atrocity in Europe since WWII was committed by Christians against Muslims.
Now wait for it- “No, they weren’t really Christians in spite of ostentatiously wearing crosses and claiming to be defending Christendom against the vile Turk, because Christians don’t do those kinds of things, whereas when a Muslim does it, it just shows how warped Islam really is.”
Although I think I know what you’re trying to say here Dragonbones, I don’t think at all that humanity has been helped here in any way. Rather the opposite, actually.
Under the auspices of the much-reviled United Nations International Criminal Court at The Hague:
“Subjecting US persons to [the ICC] treaty, with its unaccountable prosecutor and its unchecked judicial power, is clearly inconsistent with American standards of constitutionalism. Specifically, the ICC is an organization that runs contrary to fundamental American precepts and basic constitutional principles of popular sovereignty, checks and balances, and national independence.”
– John R Bolton, U.S. ambassador to the U.N.[/quote]
spook, you do realize more prisoners have died in the custody of the ICC than at Gitmo? I wonder if there will be a UN investigation…
Although I think I know what you’re trying to say here Dragonbones, I don’t think at all that humanity has been helped here in any way. Rather the opposite, actually.[/quote]
Oh, I’m not claiming his prosecution went well, or that the outcome was ideal. It’s just that I’m glad he’s dead. One less monster in the human race.
My position is that an international criminal court like the ICC is the only realistic hope for bringing human rights monsters like Milosevic to justice but its major flaw is that its prosecution is selective, reserved for small, weak nations like Serbia and Rwanda.
The irony is that the rationale strong nations unabashedly give for excepting themselves from its jurisdiction are exactly the same that small nations argue unsuccessfully before the UN court.
My position is that an international criminal court like the ICC is the only realistic hope for bringing human rights monsters like Milosevic to justice but its major flaw is that its prosecution is selective, reserved for small, weak nations like Serbia and Rwanda.
The irony is that the rationale strong nations unabashedly give for excepting themselves from its jurisdiction are exactly the same that small nations argue unsuccessfully before the UN court.[/quote]
Man may all be created equal, but countries aren’t. If those countries HAD a good enough court system, they would need the Hague, would they? But then again, if they had a good enough court system, maybe their governments wouldn’t be so fucked up to NEED the ICC.
[quote=“jdsmith”]
Man may all be created equal, but countries aren’t. If those countries HAD a good enough court system, they would need the Hague, would they? But then again, if they had a good enough court system, maybe their governments wouldn’t be so fucked up to NEED the ICC.[/quote]
Benjamin Ferencz, a chief U.S. prosecutor, Nuremberg war crimes tribunals, 1945-1949
"Six decades have passed since we condemned Nazi war crimes and crimes against humanity, since “Never again!” became a universal slogan. Six decades have passed, but the more peaceful and humane world we envisioned at Nuremberg
Be careful what you wish for spook. Didn’t you say you got out of the Army because you refused to participate in war crimes? If so, at the very least you could be forced to testify against your buddies you claim admire you so much…at worst you could end up being tried with them for trying to cover it up.
Be careful what you wish for spook. Didn’t you say you got out of the Army because you refused to participate in war crimes? If so, at the very least you could be forced to testify against your buddies you claim admire you so much…at worst you could end up being tried with them for trying to cover it up.[/quote]
The provisions of the ICC aren’t retroactive. They’re only enforceable after its ratification.
Only those who expect to violate the following precepts after they ratify the ICC need fear it:
Crimes against humanity under the provisions of the ICC:
1. Murder
2. Extermination (which includes depriving people access to food or medicine, calculated to bring about their destruction;
3. Enslavement, or the exercise of power of ownership over a person, including trafficking of persons; 4. Forcible transfer of population, or deportation or forcing people to leave an area in which they are lawfully present, without grounds permitted under international law; 5. Imprisonment or severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of international law; 6. Torture, defined as intentionally causing severe physical or mental suffering to a person in custody or under the control of the accused;
7. Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
8. Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national ethnic, cultural, religious, gender, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law or in connection with any crime under the Statute;
[b]9. Enforced disappearance-the arrest, detention or abduction of persons, by or with the authorization, consent or acquiescence of a state or a political organization, followed by either :
Be careful what you wish for spook. Didn’t you say you got out of the Army because you refused to participate in war crimes? If so, at the very least you could be forced to testify against your buddies you claim admire you so much…at worst you could end up being tried with them for trying to cover it up.[/quote]
The provisions of the ICC aren’t retroactive. They’re only enforceable after its ratification.
Only those who expect to violate the following precepts after they ratify the ICC need fear it:[/quote]
I guess this means you and your buddies skate. :bravo:
[quote=“jdsmith”]
Man may all be created equal, but countries aren’t. If those countries HAD a good enough court system, they would need the Hague, would they? But then again, if they had a good enough court system, maybe their governments wouldn’t be so fucked up to NEED the ICC.[/quote]
People get the government they deserve. I have yet to hear a convincing reason for the ICC. Other than it makes the Europeans feel less impotent.
