What to expect from living in Taiwan?

Expect to be picked on/bullied.

[quote]
But yes, that is what I am afraid of, if I go back to Taiwan and it doesn’t really benefit me. I don’t mind if I must struggle for a while but I am weighing-in on my options for the long term future.[/quote]

And live like an illegal immigrant? Puh-leese, you don’t know what you’re missing in the 'wan if you don’t move back. Just get your 4-year degree in Marketing and return with a renewed passport from 台北經濟文化辦事處. Renew your household registration from your old borough (ask your parents if you don’t know) and get your National ID card quickly. Do your 1 year conscription and you’re free.

If you have your degree take advantage of the new executive order as soon as you can. The military don’t seem to like ABC’s so expect to be treated like shit.

Don’t come back to Taiwan now that you can become legal there, the chance may never open up again. As for ‘jumping the plane’ it was the parents that did that not the children. The OP deserves a chance to be incorporated into society. After all the idea of birth right to become a citizen is pretty dumb if you think about it.

Especially considering how the rest of America seems to think that an immigration violation is a crime no matter the age of the person… it’s really messed up because most are really misinformed about immigration, as in they think it’s easy.

Especially considering how the rest of America seems to think that an immigration violation is a crime no matter the age of the person… it’s really messed up because most are really misinformed about immigration, as in they think it’s easy.[/quote]

Not to mention that the average American doesn’t understand the importance of those illegal immigrants to the economy. Who will do the farm labor in the United States if they kick out illegal Mexicans?

Especially considering how the rest of America seems to think that an immigration violation is a crime no matter the age of the person… it’s really messed up because most are really misinformed about immigration, as in they think it’s easy.[/quote]

Not to mention that the average American doesn’t understand the importance of those illegal immigrants to the economy. Who will do the farm labor in the United States if they kick out illegal Mexicans?[/quote]

Even less understand that it’s only “illegal” because the government made it so. If getting a green card in the US didn’t require a minimum of 1 million USD investment or a highly valued work (I don’t mean skills, I mean being very famous or distinguished), there would not be any “illegal” immigrants. They only exist because governments all over the world has made immigration “illegal”. I heard back in the day all it took to get a green card was to show up, pass a health check and be willing to learn English.

You know just about everyone who is mega rich in Taiwan has a US passport.

Especially considering how the rest of America seems to think that an immigration violation is a crime no matter the age of the person… it’s really messed up because most are really misinformed about immigration, as in they think it’s easy.[/quote]

Not to mention that the average American doesn’t understand the importance of those illegal immigrants to the economy. Who will do the farm labor in the United States if they kick out illegal Mexicans?[/quote]

Even less understand that it’s only “illegal” because the government made it so. If getting a green card in the US didn’t require a minimum of 1 million USD investment or a highly valued work (I don’t mean skills, I mean being very famous or distinguished), there would not be any “illegal” immigrants. They only exist because governments all over the world has made immigration “illegal”. I heard back in the day all it took to get a green card was to show up, pass a health check and be willing to learn English.

You know just about everyone who is mega rich in Taiwan has a US passport.[/quote]

Not to mention that one can simply become an American by being born in the United States. How many children of well off Taiwanese are born in the US? I know plenty of them. Students who attend the American school who are American in the only sense that they have a passport. They don’t even speak English correctly.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Don’t come back to Taiwan now that you can become legal there, the chance may never open up again.
[/quote]

HHII, WTH are you talking about? Obama is simply NOT enforcing the deportation of illegals based on criteria which OP happens to meet. That’s not to say that he’s legal there.

Without a valid social security number, he can’t legally work in US.

No shit.

Like I said, the last amnesty program was for anyone who stayed in US before 1986. Only US Congress has the power to pass another amnesty law.

Yeah, please tell that to all the slave children before the American Civil War.

[quote=“Taiwan Luthiers”]My Mandarin level is much better than the OP but had the same issue too.

If you can’t stick it out in the US (you can also work online even in the US) then come back to Taiwan, do your military (you may or may not like it… the cultural difference and defeatist attitude really gets me “Kill the commanding officer if China attacks and surrender”??) Then after military try and get yourself in the position of starting a business, because it’s the ONLY way to make any real money in Taiwan. Employed work pays like crap but will give experience. The problem with online work is that the income is often inconsistent.

Forget university… English programs favor foreigners and having a TW passport is actually a curse here. You would have to take the regular entrance exam, which I haven’t taken but if it’s anywhere near as hard as the exam for government jobs, you have NO chance. It would take at least 10 years at Shi-Da to be able to get to the point where you can have a chance at passing those exams. Remember most Taiwanese study at least 10 hours a day, going to cram schools, for the last 12 years in order to even do mediocre at those exams! Besides there are so many college grads here (many of whom actually have a degree at a US Ivy League school) that employers aren’t interested in hearing about which school you went to. If you have the right skill set they will hire you regardless of your degrees. Also, you don’t need a degree to start a business. If you really need a degree then you may consider University of Phoenix if you can afford it, but seriously I feel its a waste of time and money because I never really got to use the degree. In that case all they really want to see is your high school transcript from the US and they won’t make you take a TOFEL if you show them a US High School diploma, much easier than taking the Taiwan college entrance exam in my opinion.

About a 10 year ban, might as well consider it a lifetime ban because US is so paranoid that even a little smudge on your record is grounds for exclusion or refusal of visa/entry. Visa Wavier DOES NOT APPLY if you have ever overstayed, even once, and unlike many other countries, US actively deports and excludes those who overstayed as a child… they do not care. Although it does depend on who you talk to… because immigration guys (whoever at the window that is) have absolute power in deciding if you can get a visa.[/quote]

Frankly, TL is giving a pretty damn great advice here.

On the business part, it really depends on whether the OP has the knack and the luck to make it here. For 1% of folks who made it ok here in the 'wan, business-wise, there are 99% of those who fail. I wouldn’t press my luck there.

[quote=“PigBloodCake”][quote=“Taiwan Luthiers”]My Mandarin level is much better than the OP but had the same issue too.

If you can’t stick it out in the US (you can also work online even in the US) then come back to Taiwan, do your military (you may or may not like it… the cultural difference and defeatist attitude really gets me “Kill the commanding officer if China attacks and surrender”??) Then after military try and get yourself in the position of starting a business, because it’s the ONLY way to make any real money in Taiwan. Employed work pays like crap but will give experience. The problem with online work is that the income is often inconsistent.

Forget university… English programs favor foreigners and having a TW passport is actually a curse here. You would have to take the regular entrance exam, which I haven’t taken but if it’s anywhere near as hard as the exam for government jobs, you have NO chance. It would take at least 10 years at Shi-Da to be able to get to the point where you can have a chance at passing those exams. Remember most Taiwanese study at least 10 hours a day, going to cram schools, for the last 12 years in order to even do mediocre at those exams! Besides there are so many college grads here (many of whom actually have a degree at a US Ivy League school) that employers aren’t interested in hearing about which school you went to. If you have the right skill set they will hire you regardless of your degrees. Also, you don’t need a degree to start a business. If you really need a degree then you may consider University of Phoenix if you can afford it, but seriously I feel its a waste of time and money because I never really got to use the degree. In that case all they really want to see is your high school transcript from the US and they won’t make you take a TOFEL if you show them a US High School diploma, much easier than taking the Taiwan college entrance exam in my opinion.

About a 10 year ban, might as well consider it a lifetime ban because US is so paranoid that even a little smudge on your record is grounds for exclusion or refusal of visa/entry. Visa Wavier DOES NOT APPLY if you have ever overstayed, even once, and unlike many other countries, US actively deports and excludes those who overstayed as a child… they do not care. Although it does depend on who you talk to… because immigration guys (whoever at the window that is) have absolute power in deciding if you can get a visa.[/quote]

Frankly, TL is giving a pretty damn great advice here.

On the business part, it really depends on whether the OP has the knack and the luck to make it here. For 1% of folks who made it ok here in the 'wan, business-wise, there are 99% of those who fail. I wouldn’t press my luck there.[/quote]

Yes, but you can’t just start a business just because you want to make more money and you don’t care what you do. For restaurants or coffee bars, you need to do your research, location matters a lot and it helps to offer something really unique too. For example don’t become a legal consultant if you don’t know anything about laws, and cramming at the last minute will NOT help you here. Do what you’re best at, if you have skills in car repair, start an auto repair shop as soon as you have the money to get a place and some tools. You don’t need to buy all the tools at once, you can always start small and work your way up. But seriously don’t come to Taiwan unless you like Asia, and if you have no choice allow time to prepare yourself. You can get used to it but it’s going to be a very long culture shock, especially when locals do not see you as a Taiwanese and therefore discriminates you just like any other foreigner, yet still expects you to bear the responsibility of a Taiwanese (hong baos, taxes, military, etc.)

Obama asked the DHS not to deport child immigrants, but there’s no telling how long that will last as the executive order only last 2 years, and if a right wing president wins the next election you can bet things will be much worse. Xenophobia in the US only goes in one direction, and that is worse. You may even just decide to prepare (and use the two year for this) and come to Taiwan because the way things are, its only a matter of time before more civil liberties are eroded (as if things aren’t bad enough already). As bad as things seem in Taiwan they are slowly improving and as a nation Taiwan is actually pretty rich compared to the US. Lots of trade surplus, low if any public and private debt and limited government spending. It’s also easier to start a business here than the US because you don’t have too many laws stopping you, or if laws are there they’re kinda not enforced. In this case use your 2 years to gain the experience you need to start a business.

If you do end up coming back I can help with some of the adjustment thing and how to find things too. One thing you will have to get used to is that names for stuff in Taiwan are not the same for the US, and a direct translation will not help you. Also its hard to find many things, and the “Where can I find” forum isn’t always helpful if you’re looking for stuff the average expat doesn’t look for (like lumber). Get used to fireworks too, because people do light them at any time, especially outside Taipei city.

BTW, OP, if you do decide to return to Taiwan, may I suggest (I’m assuming you’re currently in SoCal because of your moniker) that you fly from Mexico after you renew your Taiwan passport (I’m pretty sure your parents still kept the old one somewhere in the drawer). You can practically drive across the border to Tijuana without the Mexican border control stopping you.

There is a possibility (just a hunch) that the US govt won’t have any record of you overstaying your visa if, in the future, you decide to reapply for a US visa from Taiwan.

Especially considering how the rest of America seems to think that an immigration violation is a crime no matter the age of the person… it’s really messed up because most are really misinformed about immigration, as in they think it’s easy.[/quote]
Nonsense. Almost no one thinks immigration is “easy”, we just think that people should follow the damn law. Too bad your parents didn’t. Don’t try to lay it on Americans for being “intolerant” or “misinformed”.

Yeah, I guess we can’t really expect our multigenerational welfare recipients to get off their asses and work for a living instead of being leeches.

Especially considering how the rest of America seems to think that an immigration violation is a crime no matter the age of the person… it’s really messed up because most are really misinformed about immigration, as in they think it’s easy.[/quote]
Nonsense. Almost no one thinks immigration is “easy”, we just think that people should follow the damn law. Too bad your parents didn’t. Don’t try to lay it on Americans for being “intolerant” or “misinformed”.[/quote]

At the same time people will say things like this and be content to punish kids because their parents broke the law. Its attitude like this (by the majority I might add, just look at the comment section of the news about Obama’s new executive order) that leads me to believe that it is likely the problem will get worse, not better.

As for welfare, they should be canceled or severely limited. Its madness to have people who makes entire lifelong career based on taking money from the government. Before they had such a wasteful welfare system in America people immigrated because they wanted to go somewhere that allows them to work hard and be successful, but now it’s all about sucking from the system.

The problem isn’t illegal immigration, it’s excessive entitlement programs. It’s just easier to blame the problem on immigrants because they have no representation or rights, and that people tend to isolate themselves from those who are different.

Yeah, I guess we can’t really expect our multigenerational welfare recipients to get off their asses and work for a living instead of being leeches.[/quote]

It would make more sense if those people did the work and their wages were supplemented with welfare payments. Maybe actually offer extra welfare money for actually having a job.

How about requiring people to earn $1000 to qualify for welfare unless they are disabled!

Especially considering how the rest of America seems to think that an immigration violation is a crime no matter the age of the person… it’s really messed up because most are really misinformed about immigration, as in they think it’s easy.[/quote]
Nonsense. Almost no one thinks immigration is “easy”, we just think that people should follow the damn law. Too bad your parents didn’t. Don’t try to lay it on Americans for being “intolerant” or “misinformed”.[/quote]

That is ridiculous. A law is arbitrarily made by man.

It is almost like the fact that individuals get hounded and pushed into poverty due to credit they cannot afford to pay back while large corporations get off with a get out of jail free card.

Yeah, I guess we can’t really expect our multigenerational welfare recipients to get off their asses and work for a living instead of being leeches.[/quote]

Intolerance should not be tolerated. How is an American passport holder overseas who has not grown and lived in America all their lives more American than these real Americans who cannot be distinguished as non Americans except by the virtue they do not have the government approved ID? They have a passport? That’s it?

The law is flexible and ever changing and certainly not the final arbiter or what is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’.

I think it’s hilarious that people think Americas welfare system is too generous. The current system is based around food stamps and measly allowances that would be castigated in any real welfare state. Let me make it clear , you Do NOT have excessive entitlement programs in the US, except for many arms contractors and farmers hehe. The reason why 43 million Americans need food stamps should be examined.

Perhaps you should start by looking at your broken electoral system dominated by big businessmen born into wealth like Romney or the Bushs who claim to KNOW what is the best solution while having no life experience at the poorer end of society, plus multi billion dollar campaigns that are required to win these things!

Yeah, I guess we can’t really expect our multigenerational welfare recipients to get off their asses and work for a living instead of being leeches.[/quote]

Intolerance should not be tolerated. How is an American passport holder overseas who has not grown and lived in America all their lives more American than these real Americans who cannot be distinguished as non Americans except by the virtue they do not have the government approved ID? They have a passport? That’s it?

The law is flexible and ever changing and certainly not the final arbiter or what is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’.

I think it’s hilarious that people think Americas welfare system is too generous. The current system is based around food stamps and measly allowances that would be castigated in any real welfare state. Let me make it clear , you Do NOT have excessive entitlement programs in the US, except for many arms contractors and farmers hehe. The reason why 43 million Americans need food stamps should be examined.

Perhaps you should start by looking at your broken electoral system dominated by big businessmen born into wealth like Romney or the Bushs who claim to KNOW what is the best solution while having no life experience at the poorer end of society, plus multi billion dollar campaigns that are required to win these things![/quote]

Probably the real catalyst of the problem is the drive for corporate profits. Instead of being happy making a lot of money, companies feel they need to make more and send jobs abroad so they can pay low wages.

The real sad part in the U.S. is Wall Street speculators driving up the price of oil. Basically they profit off oil without really adding any value.

The price of oil in the US crashed in 2008 due to the financial crisis. Banks didn’t have the money to speculate on oil or loan it to others to speculate. So the price of oil went down. Right now there is little connection between the demand for oil and the price of oil.

Maybe the American financial market is the modern equivalent of Marie Antoinette and the monarchs of Europe. “Let them eat cake.”

At the same time people will say things like this and be content to punish kids because their parents broke the law. Its attitude like this (by the majority I might add, just look at the comment section of the news about Obama’s new executive order) that leads me to believe that it is likely the problem will get worse, not better.[/quote]
It’s not a problem at all, except to people like you who want something they’re not entitled to have. You were born in Taiwan. Too bad. Be happy, though, you could have been born in Somalia or PNG.

Nonsense. There are plenty of hardworking people who want to emigrate to the U.S. because they think they can get a job washing dishes in a restaurant, or scrubbing toilets, or mowing lawns. Despite the Brazilian economy “booming”, someone on another board I read was just talking about how he came over illegally from Brazil again to go back to his busboy/dishwasher job in NYC; rural Brazil is still as impoverished as ever, apparently. Then there are all the people who want to do it because their homelands are dangerous – Mexicans who are terrified of the drug violence, Africans trying to get away from poverty and warlords.

Yeah, I guess we can’t really expect our multigenerational welfare recipients to get off their asses and work for a living instead of being leeches.[/quote]

Intolerance should not be tolerated. How is an American passport holder overseas who has not grown and lived in America all their lives more American than these real Americans who cannot be distinguished as non Americans except by the virtue they do not have the government approved ID? They have a passport? That’s it?[/quote]
That’s how the system works. The U.S. is a lot MORE generous with citizenship than damn near anywhere else in the world. Try being born to a Turkish family in Germany – think they give birthright citizenship to the Turkish kid? Nope!

Yeah, it changes occasionally. Right now, it looks like the direction is against more immigration. Unfortunately, Romney won’t do much to fix it, but Congressional candidates have lost elections for being pro-amnesty. Americans are sick and tired of unchecked illegal immigration.

Oh, and which country are you from?? How does its tolerance for immigrants compare?