What's the going rate for hongbao (紅包 / red envelopes) for weddings now in Taiwan?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
21

Can I stress that maybe, just maybe the “going rates” quoted here are for teachers? I have been quoted wildly different amounts depending on who is getting married and where they sit on my social ladder, or I on theirs. Being a boss is far more expensive than being an employee for example.

As a cultural note, I always ask someone senior at work before going to a wedding to advise on how much to gift. This helps bring me closer to said senior colleague although maybe once or twice I have been stiffed with a straight face.

Biggest eye opener was my own wedding where the CEO put 8K in the bag, nice! He then told me that was the going rate for a senior guy so when I went to a staff members wedding I figured I was obliged to do the same…bummer.

22

If it’s not given freely, then it’s not a gift, it’s a bill. If morality or social mores are followed simply, and only, because that’s what everyone does, then it’s a fairly hollow practice. If I don’t steal only because I don’t want to get caught and/or ostracised, then I’m not really being moral. This seems to be the gist of things here. Many people rip others off, run red lights, etc., because they view what’s right as what you don’t get caught for. It’s a seven year old’s morality. The same with giving an expected amount just because everyone else in the playground is doing so.

23

Thats very culturally aware of you - NOT

24

GuyinTaiwan - I agree that money/gift giving for weddings is lame: “I want to share my special day with all 500 of my closest and bestest! Ps - no less than $XXX amount in presents/money, please!”

However, this is not exclusive to Taiwan nor is it a Chinese custom. Don’t forget wedding registries in the USA and Canada (other nations, too).

There is even a minimum dollar amount to spend on gifts in the USA and Canada. Sure, there are $24.95 towels on the wedding registry that the couple registered for, but who just buys that $24.95 towel set as a wedding gift? :laughing: You either give big enough, or don’t go. In-between is a no-no nowadays.

To put things in perspective for you, my in-laws are “old school and old money” New York City people. They have two kids and the older one had a typical $$$ wedding in the 90s in their Hamptons home with the caterers, band, professional photographers, etc., your typical Sunday featured wedding in New York Post. So the in-laws got their dream wedding.

When we got married, we wanted none of that. We didn’t want to waste any money on a day that I feel is just like any other day - I mean, we’d rather use that money for a down payment on our house - so we just had our immediate families at city hall. The in-laws were NOT amused, but they shut up after we told them to drop it. (Till this day, they still want to have a “little get-together” with “a few (read 20-30)” of their “close friends (people I don’t know)” in NYC. We said maybe this summer. Maybe.) However, the in-laws’ friends and business acquaintances were “obligated” to give us gifts and money. We had FedEx for weeks before and after the wedding. Tiffany was the gift of choice, and $500 USD was the average. I told my in-laws, “That’s insane, we don’t know (well, EYE don’t) these people and they’re giving us gifts and money, I’m sure they’re cursing as they write the cheques.” But my in-laws told me over the years they have gone to too many weddings and engagments and anniversaries and mitzvahs and celebrations and christenings that the amount of cash they have given out is absurd and it’s about time they (read: we) got some of it back.

It is a never-ending custom, this money-giving. People with high incomes have their own set of rules, people with moderate incomes have their own.

The in-laws just went to another wedding a month ago where the bride registered at freaking Barney’s. Who registers solely at Barney’s? Whose wedding dress costs USD $15K? WTF? Anyway, whatever.

By the way, I am so ashamed I only gave $1200 (or $1600) to the first wedding I went to in Taiwan. I musta been a laughing stock… :blush:

25

[quote=“914”]GuyinTaiwan - I agree that money/gift giving for weddings is lame: “I want to share my special day with all 500 of my closest and bestest! Ps - no less than $XXX amount in presents/money, please!”

However, this is not exclusive to Taiwan nor is it a Chinese custom. Don’t forget wedding registries in the USA and Canada (other nations, too).

There is even a minimum dollar amount to spend on gifts in the USA and Canada. Sure, there are $24.95 towels on the wedding registry that the couple registered for, but who just buys that $24.95 towel set as a wedding gift? :laughing: You either give big enough, or don’t go. In-between is a no-no nowadays.

To put things in perspective for you, my in-laws are “old school and old money” New York City people. They have two kids and the older one had a typical $$$ wedding in the 90s in their Hamptons home with the caterers, band, professional photographers, etc., your typical Sunday featured wedding in New York Post. So the in-laws got their dream wedding.

When we got married, we wanted none of that. We didn’t want to waste any money on a day that I feel is just like any other day - I mean, we’d rather use that money for a down payment on our house - so we just had our immediate families at city hall. The in-laws were NOT amused, but they shut up after we told them to drop it. (Till this day, they still want to have a “little get-together” with “a few (read 20-30)” of their “close friends (people I don’t know)” in NYC. We said maybe this summer. Maybe.) However, the in-laws’ friends and business acquaintances were “obligated” to give us gifts and money. We had FedEx for weeks before and after the wedding. Tiffany was the gift of choice, and $500 USD was the average. I told my in-laws that’s insane, we don’t know (well, I don’t) these people and they’re giving us gifts and money, I’m sure they’re cursing as they write the cheque. But my in-laws told me over the years they have gone to too many weddings and engagments and anniversaries and mitzvahs and celebrations and christenings that the amount of cash they have given out is absurd and it’s about time they (read: we) got some of it back.[/quote]

Hey be happy . It aint bad. Let other people have their fun too. Those New Yorkers probably LIVE for weddings.

26

Thats very culturally aware of you - NOT[/quote]

I have already claimed to not get this culture. However, it’s worth pointing out that I don’t get people who follow the crowd (especially with respect to morality) in the West either. It just seems more prevalent here.

914: I’m on the same page as you, for sure. I would be quite happy to have a small wedding minus all the nonsense of obligated gifts, and people I didn’t know. My parents have always told me that large weddings are a waste of money.

My cousin and her husband put a lot of noses out of joint by having a pretty small, casual wedding in Thailand. The unspoken purpose of it was to weed out the undesired on both sides (especially since he’s half-Italian and didn’t want masses of strangers there). Good for them though, I say. People weren’t expected to provide presents, by virtue of the fact that they’d flown there, and most people took an extended holiday there at the same time (and my cousin and her husband had their honeymoon there). It was all rather casual.

27

I feel embarrassed at how much of a fuss I used to make about red envelopes being crass or whatever other hippy feelgood bollocks I argued about.

When I got married the hongbaos went to the MIL who paid for most of our wedding. She made some money on the deal but she has been giving hongbaos to friends and family for a long time now, and this is the payback. For some couples the hongbao system is a way to afford their wedding and gradually pay it on or back to other friends who get married over time. My brother in law is getting married this month and I will be giving them a big hongbao to thank him for looking after his [our] family all these years.

There ain’t nothing crass or dirty about it - money helps the newlyweds and/or their families a lot more than 100 toasters or towel warmers, and in the end it all comes back around. If you are doing well or in a position of power you give more and get more social currency / ‘face’ in return.

Red envelopes, rather than being some crazy Chinese system to deprive people of their money and turn weddings into biz ops, are a great way to ‘share the wealth’ and work like a big revolving credit system.

28

llary: It’s when each person is expected to give a certain amount, and it’s tallied up and written down, that the whole thing becomes incredibly crass.

29

Well, a CEO giving 8k to a senior employee sounds about right (it is quite possible that he can declare a certain number of these hongbao a year to the company expense account or discretionary funds). But I’m sure no one would expect you to give that much to a colleague unless you yourself are an owner, partner, or richly-paid VP-or-higher executive and the colleague is a key subordinate of yours.

30

It’s tallied up and written down so you know how much to give back to that person when they are invited to your wedding. You do realise that unless the giver is significantly better off than the recipient or gives a large hongbao for some special reason, it is supposed to be handed back to them down the line? It is not ‘giving’ so much as a form of community lending. What is crass about practicality?

31

I’m with Llary regarding the concept and practicalities of the reciprocal wedding bao, BUT, 914 hit the nail on the head regarding how many, many people abuse this system by inviting scores of hangers on to the wedding with the deliberate priority of turning it into a money making scheme… Offsetting the costs of the wedding is great, but if there is a deliberate intention to turn a profit on the hong baos, IMO that’s unethical and disrespectful to your guests… Some Taiwanese families have a much more robust set of ethics when it comes to potential cash money profit however… :idunno:

32

My girlfriend always gives NT$2200. Has something to do with hoping they have 2 kids, 1 boy or 1 girl or something like that.

33

It’s tallied up and written down so you know how much to give back to that person when they are invited to your wedding. You do realise that unless the giver is significantly better off than the recipient or gives a large hongbao for some special reason, it is supposed to be handed back to them down the line? It is not ‘giving’ so much as a form of community lending. What is crass about practicality?[/quote]

As I said in a previous post, I realise how deeply embedded I am in the Western, Judeo-Christian culture, despite not being a Christian. Something about it being better to give than to receive. If it’s tallied and compared, then it’s not giving. I find that extremely crass, like, as I said earlier, how some or many people don’t break the law not because they think about other people and so on, but simply because they don’t want to get caught and punished. Again, I find that crass.

Regarding hangers-on, they are pretty much de rigueur at weddings here.

34

[quote=“Dragonbones”]It depends on a lot of things, but the quick answer is that I’ve recently heard around $2000 is common. If you’re rich or generous you’re free to give more, of course, and if you’re a poor student and the venue is not particularly pricey, perhaps give $1600. Certainly never less than that.

IMO.[/quote]

or else what?

35

I think 1600 was the ‘standard’ amount. Give a bit more if you go with your partner. And give MORE for a person closer to you or someone you get along with well (someone you like, and mutually so :slight_smile:

I came to these amounts after asking others, Taiwanese colleagues, what the normal amounts are.

Actually, 1600 as a number something to do with luck too I think.

36

I just wrote a cheque for USD $150 for a wedding in Canada I can’t make. I thought $150 looked too “little air” and wanted to give $200 instead, but the spouse said USD $150 was plenty.

Out of curiosity I looked up the exchange rate of USD to NTD and holy schamoly, that’s around NTD $5000. :astonished:

But it’s for a close friend, so I guess my gift was decent? Btw, she had 650 guests at her wedding. Whoa.

37

[quote=“914”]I just wrote a cheque for USD $150 for a wedding in Canada I can’t make. I thought $150 looked too “little air” and wanted to give $200 instead, but the spouse said USD $150 was plenty.

Out of curiosity I looked up the exchange rate of USD to NTD and holy schamoly, that’s around NTD $5000. :astonished:

But it’s for a close friend, so I guess my gift was decent? Btw, she had 650 guests at her wedding. Whoa.[/quote]

Hey do I get a check too?? :slight_smile:

38

914: That’s crazy, both the money and the number of guests. Who has 650 friends and relatives?

39

Actually I’m pretty bad with money. I still think of USD in CDN terms! I did a lot of googling and asking around for the “right” amount to give for a wedding I wouldn’t be attending. So many factors - closeness of relationship, where the wedding is, ethnic background of couple, etc. The “going rate” in the Chinese community in North Amurka is $75 pp if you attend the wedding so I went by that. It would have cost about $1000 if we had flown up for the weekend for the wedding.

In traditional Chinese weddings, most guests are usually the parents’ friends and business acquaintances. About 150 were the bride and groom’s own guests. The rest were her father’s.

40

[quote=“914”]Actually I’m pretty bad with money. I still think of USD in CDN terms! I did a lot of googling and asking around for the “right” amount to give for a wedding I wouldn’t be attending. So many factors - closeness of relationship, where the wedding is, ethnic background of couple, etc. The “going rate” in the Chinese community in North Amurka is $75 pp if you attend the wedding so I went by that. It would have cost about $1000 if we had flown up for the weekend for the wedding.

In traditional Chinese weddings, most guests are usually the parents’ friends and business acquaintances. About 150 were the bride and groom’s own guests. The rest were her father’s.[/quote]

Aside from people I “work with” but don’t actually “know” (ie. most of the office staff, and most of the non-English teachers), I’d be struggling to find more than about twenty or thirty people here. Even back in Australia, aside from my extended family (which actually isn’t that big), I’d be struggling to put together more than twenty. Maybe I’m anti-social, but I’m the sort of person who has a small number of good friends, and everyone else is neither here nor there for me. Again, it’s probably just a cultural way of looking at things, but I can’t possibly see how someone could have hundreds and hundreds of “friends” or “associates” and be on anything more than a first name basis with them. I certainly wouldn’t consider them people I’d want attending my, or my child’s, wedding then.