What's up with my new bike?

Not a happy camper.

I’ve spent the weekend tooling around on my new SM250. All was fine for the first two days, except that it feels a bit hot. Just paranoia? I’m not getting any warning lights and the fan seems to be kicking in OK.

Last night I went up and down Yang Ming Shan. Filled it up first. Drove to the top. Stopped for an hour. Coasted down again. Close to the bottom it suddenly hesitated and then cut out. It seemed like a fuel issue and I remembered seeing a mention of Sandman having a fuel problem related to the fuel cock/reserve switch so the first thing I did after stopping was move the lever around in the dark to see if that made a difference. It didn’t. So then I wheeled the bike under a streetlight so I could see what I was doing and made sure it was switched to ‘on’.

Well, it started OK, so I assumed I must have somehow inadvertently done something stupid and carried on with my evening.

Some 30km and several hours later, close to home, it did it again. I was trundling along at 55ish on the flat and it did exactly the same thing. A fatal hesitation and suddenly everything went quiet. This time I made sure the fuel cock was in the right position, opened up the tank to make sure there was fuel, and then spent ten minutes looking around the bike to make sure there were no loose pipes, wires, or anything. Couldn’t find anything amiss, and it started again without any problem.

Five minutes later it did it again. I switched it to reserve, and it started straight away. As it was 2am I just went home but I’m about to go off on it again and I’m very concerned about this. Does anyone have any suggestions?

The whole point of buying a brand new bike is that I don’t really have time to be fucking around going to mechanics every day. I might be able to make an hour or two available today to take it back to the dealer, but I’d like some advice first.

Thanks in advance.

The only normal thing could be that you are near to empty and have not selected the reserve (RES not ON)position on the the fuel tap and even if you have:

I have stated before that when the tank is near empty and the fuel is forced to the front of the tank for whatever reason (like braking down a steep incline perhaps, for me it happened between the time i braked for a racetrack corner and then the fuel starvation occurred when i opened the throttle to exit the same corner) the tap being placed so far near the rear of the tank suffers from fuel starvation.

If it is not this then get to a dealer asap.

How does it take you several hours to travel 30km’s?

You take a young lady for dinner.

Full tank. I could dip my finger in it.

[quote=“Loretta”]You take a young lady for dinner.

Full tank. I could dip my finger in it.[/quote] :astonished:

You take a young lady for dinner.

Full tank. I could dip my finger in it.[/quote]

Ok key point answered, you were not running the engine for several hours before riding 30km’s :slight_smile:

You had enough fuel, take it to the dealer, if it only happens only at night then you could be lucky and its a fuse…alternatively the cdi or ignition wiring could have a problem, try replicate the problem see if it happens with only the lights on.

How about water, was the bike wet at all? I have heard of one guy suffering a similar problem due to water exposure and a friend of mine spent hours and could not find the source of the problem.

Sounds like a defect though most defects reveal themselves in the first few hundred k’s of any new bike.

perhaps this should be merged with the cpi sm thread since this could be useful information to all subscribers of that thread.

Could there have been crap in the fuel tank that is now clogging up the fuel filter?

You take a young lady for dinner.

Full tank. I could dip my finger in it.[/quote]

uh dipped your finger in the fuel tank?/ Ohhh. I thought something else.

Au contraire! I love my bike so much I rode it into the restaurant and kept the engine running throughout the dinner. Then I rode 30km. :discodance:

But seriously

According to Daisy, the delightful young lass who takes care of me when I visit the dealer, via Yahoo’s online translation tool, “The oil duct pipeline stopped up. Processed.”

It seems OK again now, but it was OK all day before I took it in. As long as that’s the only problem I get with it I’ll just put this down to “teething problems,” not to any fundamental issue with quality or design. The bike is a lot of fun, although I don’t ride aggressively. I’m liking it a lot because I feel safer on it. It feels more solid, more responsive, more like it knows where it’s going and how to get there than any scooter.

hehe and the restaurant will still smell fresh as a daisy er fresh as a Taiwan restaurant… thanx to all the emission control gadgets they slapped on.

:fume: :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume:

13 October 18:20
To: pwei [at] cpi-motor.com.tw

[quote]Hi Patricia,

I got your email address from a website used by foreigners in Taiwan where your bike has been discussed a great deal.

Due to the very positive reports there I arranged to meet one of your customers and test-drive his bike. I liked it a lot, and purchased a bike of my own last week. I took delivery on Friday 10 October. I drove it without problem on Friday and Saturday, but on Sunday an issue came up which is causing me a lot of trouble.

The bike suddenly lost power, and then the engine stopped. I was driving normally, with a full tank of fuel. After ten minutes or so the bike started again without a problem and I was able to continue driving it as if nothing had happened. A few hours later, the same thing happened again. I was driving at normal road speed on a normal flat road and there was still enough fuel in the tank that I could see it. After ten minutes I was able to start the bike but five minutes later it stopped again. It wouldn’t work until I switched to the reserve tank.

I switched it back to the main tank this morning and drove it without any problem all day. In the afternoon I took the bike to the dealer who sold it to me. They checked the bike and told me that there had been some blockage with the fuel line and that it was now fixed. I drove home at 4pm.

Now, at 6:00pm, the bike won’t start. I am writing this while I wait for my secretary to call the dealer and find out what his next move is. In the meantime, I can’t go anywhere. I have an important appointment in ten minutes which I am going to miss - and this will cost me money.

I am extremely unhappy, and insist that you take immediate action to ensure that I have a fully operational bike with no defects OR A FULL REFUND. This really is not good enough. I had very high hopes of this bike and am very very disappointed.

I look forward to your reply.[/quote]

I had an old ford escort ten years ago with this exact same problem. It used to do it to me on the motorway, stopped a red lights etc. You can imagine how much stress it caused, and every time it would start again after five minutes. It turned out to be rust from the petrol tank blocking the jets. I put a new tank on it and it solved the problem immediately.

Of course it can’t be this if the bike has a plastic tank and it’s brand new but it sounds like fuel starvation to me. Maybe some shite left over from manufacture?

Either way I’m sure they’ll sort it for you no worries.

[quote=“Dogma”]You had enough fuel, take it to the dealer, if it only happens only at night then you could be lucky and its a fuse…alternatively the cdi or ignition wiring could have a problem, try replicate the problem see if it happens with only the lights on.

How about water, was the bike wet at all? I have heard of one guy suffering a similar problem due to water exposure and a friend of mine spent hours and could not find the source of the problem.[/quote]

Well, if I can’t ride it in the rain then it’s not much use to me. It’s only happening at night, if 6pm counts as night, but I ride with the headlight on all the time. One of my good mates who knows more than me also reckons it’s the CDI, but who really cares? I bought a brand new bike and it started to malfunction within 150m. The whole point of buying a brand new bike is that when it is delivered everything works properly and everything continues to work properly for a few years so you don’t have to waste your time fucking around figuring out what’s wrong and getting things fixed.


Why should this all be necessary? Can’t these people deliver motorcycles with clean fuel systems? Do they put the crap in at the factory or is this an extra service offered by the dealer? Can I just get the bog-standard bike without the free shit?

(No doubt someone will try and tell me that the free shit was supplied by CPC and is not CPI’s responsibility. I’ve been driving 25 years, six of them in Taiwan. I drive 1000km/month, fill up 2-3 times a week, and have never yet had shit in my fuel tank. The coincidence that this should happen to me on the very day I fill up my new bike for the first time is just too improbable to accept.)

It wouldn’t start last night. I tried it again when I got home after several taxi rides. No dice. This morning it fired right up at the first try and I was able to drive it around looking for the driver they sent out to collect the bike. (My place is a bit hard to find.)

The dealer got back to me within an hour last night, after talking to whoever he got the bike from. I have a loaner scooter for now and they’re going to take a look at the bike. If they get back to me today and say “we fixed it” I’m probably going to play hell. They should take their time investigating absolutely every possible cause, not simply deal with the most likely candidate and call it fixed. How long should this take? A couple of days?

I’m in a foul mood so I’m going to rant. Please ignore this post.

I took the bike in on Monday afternoon. I had already called ahead, via a bilingual secretary, to make sure they knew what the problem was. The laoban was not in the shop, so one of the mechanics took care of the bike.

First he walked over to it with a pair of snips in his hand and appeared to cut something at the point where various tubes come out of the front of the tank. I wasn’t close and didn’t see what he did. Then he looked around the bike, waved me over, and explained how the reserve switch works.

I patiently made clear that the problem happened with a full tank, three times, at intervals. We even called a translator to make sure they understood. Now, not to put too fine a point on it, who the fuck is this guy that he starts telling me what I’m doing wrong and snipping shit when he doesn’t even know what the problem is?

The he jumped on the bike and went screaming off down the road. Was I revving the balls off my bike when the problem happened? No I wasn’t. I was driving carefully and mindfully of the fact that the engine hasn’t been run-in yet. And as the problem is intermittent it’s hardly likely that it’s going to reappear just at the moment that there happens to be a mechanic sitting on it. And if it does suddenly die a mile away from the shop then what is he going to do? Push it back? Is this guy taking his job seriously?

So I sit in the shop and suddenly he’s back and it’s “fixed”. Blocked fuel pipe. Are you sure? Yes. So I take it home, park it for two hours, and when I come out it won’t start.

I’m sorry, but when someone calls you to say that the bike they bought three days ago keeps stopping then racing it down the street is not a solution. Even if there is a blockage in the fuel pipe then someone needs to ask why that should be, and take steps to resolve the cause of the blockage. They also need to check to see if there is genuinely a blockage or if there is some other problem.

Anyway, while typing this I have received an email from CPI asking for details and telephone numbers. I’m going to go and be nice to them, now that I’ve emptied my bile here.

I understand how you feel trust me, rage is expected when you buy something new and it has problems, however rage goes away and the repercussions of rage do not go away so easily, particularly if you level a bazooka at the wrong guy.

In the meantime just give the manufacturer time to solve the issue, they have very competent engineers unlike the dealers.

Save your rage for the guy who is actually to blame after you find out what actually went wrong :wink:

No don’t go trying to fix the bike by yourself, that’s why you got a new bike, it has a warranty and should and will be taken care of by the warranty as long as you have made no modifications and have not tried to fix it yourself by dismantling it.

My suggestions only point to trying to find some way to replicate the error so as to identify the direct action that results in the malfunction if at all possible, the reason for this is simply to save time in the diagnosis which you may or may not want to do.

Please note carefully, if you are separated from your bike by handing it over to the dealer take pictures of the whole bike in as much detail as possible and find some way to verify the date the pictures were taken nothing sucks so bad as having your bike returned to you with some new damage and being told that it was like that when you gave it to them.

I suggested the electrical system because it sounds like the problem is intermittent and may be the result of a short created by a clipped electrical wire or an exposed electrical wire (which causes a short when exposed to water) both of which can be caused by incorrect handling of the bike during shipping or during the fitment of aftermarket parts like a luggage rack I could be wrong but this sounds more likely as does the idea that it could be the result of an incorrectly secured connection or fuse.

I could be wrong but the idea that the fuel providing system has been compromised would mean a considerable sized or quantity of contaminant has been introduced in one or more very different isolated areas in the fuel supply system each of which have safety’s in place to prevent just such an occurrence. Between the tank and the tap there should be a filter mesh, between the line and the carburettor there is a fuel filter and the carb itself has a bowl to allow it to operate with a small amount of contaminants inside. The build up of contaminants in any of theses safety’s will cause intermittant fuel supply initially and should not cause the cut out you have described, you would experience a feeling as if the bike was being turned off and then turned on again suddenly, this feeling would be repetitive as you open and close the throttle to try to keep the bike going. This is unlikely because for the source of this contaminant to be from the manufacturer would be gross incompetence but possible because the source could be from the dealer or the gas station. But I don’t feel this i likely in your case.

Maybe I am wrong, there is more information i would like to have and would prefer a two way real time discussion if I cannot see the problem for myself, but given the information provided this is the best I can think of.

CPI will take care of you though, you can trust that. If you have any concerns you can get my number from Sandman and feel free to call me and I can help put your mind to rest or give you any information you need from my experiences dealing with them.

Yes… could be electrical, but Loretta’s facts don’t seem to have any association with rain. If it’s electrical, my guess would be a faulty ECU, but there’s no EFI, so I doubt if the moto even has an ECU. Therefore… thermally sensitive CDI ?? … but then it should start when cold. My money’s still on fuel system.

Loretta, you bought a first year model of a newly designed motorcycle that has thrown you a curve. In the larger scheme of things, you’ve got a piece of a breakthrough product that would have cost you 3x the price a year ago. It’s frustrating that you have a problem bike, but your choice are basically
(1) to get mad and give CPI a chance to make good, or
(2) stay calm and give CPI a chance to make good.

Doesn’t sound like fuel starvation to me. Sounds more like the carb is flooding. There’s no reason for fuel line blockage on a new bike. Very highly unlikely. If it was really starving, it would start and stop again and the problem would be more consistent and less intermittent. It would not just not start at all as enough fuel would eventually be sucked in for ignition to occur. Complete blockage is pretty much impossible on a new bike.

It is possible that your CDI is faulty, but also highly unlikely because turning the ignition off and back on should be enough to reset the CDI and the bike would restart immediately. I don’t think it’s an electrical problem, although that is very easy to test to know for sure.

I think your problem is a faulty carb. The symptoms indicate that the carb’s float/needle is sticking and it floods the bike. Once it’s flooded, it won’t start at all until it dries up a bit. You could try gently tapping on the carb with a scewdriver handle to unstuck the needle/float when that happens. If it works, then you know that’s where the problem is. Another way to test for this problem is to remove the spark plug when the bike is stalled. If the plug is wet, then you know the bike is flooded, and you know the carb is acting up. Removing the plug to look at it will not void your warranty so long as you screw it back in properly. Once the plug is removed, it’s easy to also test to make sure you have a spark. If you have a spark and the plug is wet, the bike is flooded. If you have a spark and the plug is dry, the bike is starving for fuel, and if you have no spark, then the problem is clearly electrical. It’s really easy to rule out some potential problems to pinpoint what exactly is the problem. However, the mechanic needs to look at the bike when it’s not starting and acting up because it is difficult to pinpoint a problem if there is no problem at the time.

I say get the tool you need to remove the spark plug yourself when the bike is acting up and test the spark first. You either have a spark, or you don’t. And if you do, then it’s either too much or not enough gas. As I said, my guess is that your carb is flooding and you will smell gas as soon as you remove the spark plug, and the plug will be wet.

It’s easy to test. Just remove the spark plug and connect it back to the ignition lead. You’ll basically have the lead with the spark plug connected at the end but not screwed into the engine. Then hold the end of the plug firmly with your fingers and push on the starter button. If it hurts like a bitch, you know you have a good spark. :laughing: No, seriously, do that without touching the spark plug and you will be able to see and hear the spark if there is one.


Not a sign of flooding, the bike would rev uncontrollably…

[quote=“maunaloa”]Yes… could be electrical, but Loretta’s facts don’t seem to have any association with rain. If it’s electrical, my guess would be a faulty ECU, but there’s no EFI, so I doubt if the moto even has an ECU. Therefore… thermally sensitive CDI ?? … but then it should start when cold. My money’s still on fuel system.

Water doesn’t need to be from rain, CDI has been suggested already, short could be the cause of the CDI malfunction.

Short could also interrupt the ignition in other ways leading to spark failure.

The wiring loom runs near the underside of the seat and close to the rear mudguard and frame on the right hand side. Can lift the seat and check those areas for wires being clipped.

Loretta you must be gutted. I feel your pain. A new thing. It doesn’t do what it says on the tin. The realization that it was bought from incompetent numpties adds insult to injury. Take this lesson as another reason why you should pack your bags and move to Argentina, where the women are large breasted and the motorcycling is wonderful.

(Empathic rant) Fudge Taiwan. Fudging piece of shin island. :smiley: