My girlfriend has a dog that’s about 14-15 years old. It’s had poor health for the past five years because of an incident with a larger dog which I’m not too clear on. But the only real problems the dog’s had up until a couple months ago were a cough and poor vision. Now, the dog’s been having seizures several times a month, sometimes several times a week, and she also can’t control her bladder anymore. All she does all day is lie on their couch and then jump off when she’s thirsty and pee almost immediately. Then she’ll walk around in circles until someone puts her back on the couch. She’s also become more aggressive, so if you do pick her up she’ll most likely snap at you. This past week she’s lost control of her bowels, so she’ll have a bm on the couch if she has a coughing fit (fortunately, it’s one of those stupid wooden/stone couches). She also has moments where she’ll just stop in front of a wall and space out until someone moves her. I’ve seen her do this for 5-10 minutes before.
I personally think it’s time to put her down. She seems to be in terrible pain and her quality of life is just not there. But, I also don’t want to be suggesting this to my girlfriend without first making sure it’s time to put the dog down because I’ve never had a good relationship with her dog. I feel guilty about it. I didn’t like how her family treated the dog like she was the queen of the house (and it’s a small dog. I like big dogs better.) It’s not the dogs fault, I know, but it still affected the way I viewed her. So there are doubts in my mind that the only reason I’m bringing this up is because I didn’t like their dog in the first place. I didn’t hate her, and she was kind of cute occasionally, now that I think about her past behavior.
I agree with you. She had a nice long life for a dog, but her quality of life has clearly fallen dramatically and it’s not going to come back. It’s time to put her down.
If my girlfriend who I had known less time than my dog told me she thought it was time to kill my dog, I’d be single right quickish. Regardless of whether she was right.
Frankly, I’d be more inclined to listen to my dog if he mentioned it might be time for the girl to go.
If the dog wanted to die then she would simply do that. They stop eating and go find a place to wait for death to come. If your girlfriend’s dog isn’t doing that, then it won’t be euthanasia; it’ll be killing. Even if she does stop eating, she should be taken to a vet to see if anything can be done for her.
That’s crazy. No animal can simply die at will. Humans can’t, and I think it’s absurd that our governments won’t allow us to die with dignity through assisted suicide. The dog described in the OP is clearly suffering, and putting her down will certainly be euthanasia. I know I would rather die than live in a constant state of abysmal health, suffering frequent seizures and the inability to control my bowels. How about you?
That’s crazy. No animal can simply die at will. Humans can’t, and I think it’s absurd that our governments won’t allow us to die with dignity through assisted suicide. The dog described in the OP is clearly suffering, and putting her down will certainly be euthanasia. I know I would rather die than live in a constant state of abysmal health, suffering frequent seizures and the inability to control my bowels. How about you?[/quote]
You don’t believe that animals stop eating and die? :loco:
Me? Incontinence and seizures v. death? Come on! Are you serious?
I didn’t say that. I said that putting down a very old dog who is clearly suffering horribly and isn’t going to get any better is euthanasia. Euthanasia means “happy death”, and I’d rather give a suffering animal a happy death than watch them die slowly. I disagree that the sole metric of when it’s time for a dog to die is when it stops eating. I disagree that a dog owner should never put down his or her dog just because the dog is still eating, with complete disregard to any other factor of health and quality of life.
To each his own. Many people would rather die than live like that, especially in very old age when their bodies are generally shutting down. The same applies to animals, but they can’t tell us, so we have to make that call for them. Of course it all depends on the details of the situation, and hopefully the decision involves consulting a vet, but I don’t think responsible dog owners just sit around wait for their dogs to slowly starve themselves to death.
I have to agree with Gao Bohan here. There’s nothing wrong with euthanizing a dog or cat when it is suffering. It’s a more humane choice than watching the animal continue to suffer and die slowly.
Well, I told my girlfriend what I thought and she said that it’s crossed her mind but she can’t actually go through with it. I told her I understand, but that she needs to consider the dogs pain as well. She also said the vet had recommended it before because he thinks the dog is in severe pain but her older sister immediately said no, because she has hope the dog will get better, which frustrates me because while she may have hope, the dog doesn’t. All the dog has is pain.
It’s getting very tough to watch the decline in health of the dog. She looks sad and weak. I looked at her eyes today and she just looks beaten. But I also can’t force the issue as it’s not my choice.
I am going through a similar thing with our senior cat. But she is not in pain.
You yourself are right, it is not your call. It must have crossed the whole family’s minds putting the dog down, but it is not an easy decision. If they are religious (Buddhist?) it might affect that decision even more.
Ex Animo, I know you have the best of intentions, but we humans have the power of judgement and we should learn how to use that power wisely. An animal in that state in the wild would most likely have curled up and died long ago. But it is not in the wild - it’s been cared for by humans. The normal rules don’t apply. Because we’ve subverted those rules to begin with, we’re left with an uncomfortable decision to make. Besides, a natural death, in 99% of cases, is neither peaceful nor painless. That applies to humans and animals, and it’s only our messed-up view of the “sanctity of life” that prevents euthanasia being discussed properly.
Anyway, that’s not really the point. You can’t tell someone else to put their dog down. You might suggest gently that it’s time to think about it, but that’s as far as it goes.
I’ve lost my best friend - Hagar, to a tiny little lump on his wrist (cancer). It wasn’t the cancer that got him, but the painkillers that turned his stomach to hell.
Lost Sally, the Jack Russell, to dementia/epilepsy (she had similar issues mentioned by the OP - not pleasant to see).
In all cases me and my ma did everything to keep them going along as pleasantly as possible, until … it was no longer pleasant.
I still wonder why Hagar was taken so early, at nine.
I agree that an animal who is suffering and who has no hope of getting better should be euthanised for his or her own good. But I’ve reread the OP several times and see no mention of pain or suffering. And the dog is eating. Again, an animal who doesn’t want to live will stop eating. We humans have the power of judgment? Well, how good are we at that? And are we to believe that a dog can’t decide for herself when she wants to give up?
To recap the dog’s supposed suffering, according to the OP:
a cough
poor vision
seizures
poor bladder control
sleeps a lot
walks in circles
grumpy
spaces out
From this the OP concludes that she ‘seems to be in terrible pain’. I would strongly disagree here. Where is the pain in the conditions listed above? Even if there is some pain, dogs deal with it far better than we humans do and yet we so often want to apply our own level of what is bearable onto an animal that doesn’t experience pain (or at least have such a difficult time with pain) as badly as we do.
Now let’s imagine we’re talking about a person here. Let’s call her Grandma. If you really want to anthropomorphize, then do just that and see how you feel about killing her. Grandma has a cough and poor vision and has seizures. She has an incontinence bag, seems disoriented and spacey sometimes, and sleeps a lot. So you cart her off to Switzerland so she can be killed ‘to end her suffering’. My nan was pretty much all of the above near the end of her life. All except the seizures, actually. Did we think we should ‘end her suffering’? No. But, to be honest, her problems were affecting the family for some length of time, and while no one wanted to see Nan go, I think we were all going to at least be grateful for getting our lives back to normal once she did pass on. I wonder (and I say this with the best intentions and no judgment) if we don’t take into account our own difficulties that our pets conditions bring us when considering if we should kill or euthanise our four-legged friend.
Based on what the OP’s told us, that the dog seems to have mobility and can to get to her water bowl when needed and that the only possible sign of discomfort is snappiness, I stick with my opinion that killing would not be in the dog’s interest.
I say all this with a huge amount of experience in deciding what is right for our aged and ailing furry friends. I say let the little lady continue but find ways to make life easier for those around her and caring for her.
The pain conclusion is due to several issues. The circling, the whimpering and snapping when touching the sides, and the frequent seizures, which leave the dog howling in extreme pain. they had a specialist come out and check the dog’s heart and while he was checking, they asked him why the dog is always walking around in circles. He said that if the dog is walking around in small circles, it’s because she’s not getting enough oxygen to her brain. During these times, the dog can hardly walk, and seems to have jello legs. Usually when this happens, she has a seizure not long after. Then he said if she walks around in large circles, it’s because she’s jian ao, which means extreme pain. She does this pretty much anytime she’s not on the couch.
Has the vet diagnosed the cause of the seizures and offered medication to control them? It’s important to understand that, no matter what the root cause, seizures are accompanied by altered consciousness and the dog experiences no pain. The dog will lose control of many bodily functions and may vocalize unintentionally. Every online resource about canine seizures will explain that dogs do not suffer during seizures.
How big are the circles she walks in? Small circles usually accompany partial seizures. And how often do the seizures occur? I can’t find anything online to support what the vet said about big and small circles.
It is a really tough call. But do they hope the dog will get better because they are deluding themselves? No one “gets better” from old age. Are they providing required treatment? Seems they do care about doggie enough to call a vet to do a house call -now that is really difficult -and expensive.
Having an elderly dog who suffers from seizures, I have been warned of similar tell-tale signs. I trust my vet more than myself, as I’ve been ready to give up at least once and the vet kept on fighting so doggie kept on going, and hence so did I. My feelings and impressions do get in the way. I guess it is the same with your GF’s family, oif which doggie is a cherished member.
Doggie should be given a rest if they find a serious issue like cancer or life diminishing conditions. I agree with ExAnimo pal that the dementia and incontinence per se are not reasons enough to put doggie down. But they are often symptoms of further serious conditions. The problems underneath -blood circulation deficit, for instance- could be life threatening, and more importantly, do make doggie’s life miserable. If doggie is receiving vet attention, there should be a follow up on these issues to improve her quality of life, or if necessary, the call should be made.
Just last night I was thinking about how much I will miss my Toto when he dies, as he slept quietly on my lap while I watched TV. Sure I got Bobby -snoring by my side, but it’s different. You love your pets as family, as individuals. Hence, euthanesia is not an easy decision, please support your GF but as a separate onlooker, also be ready to step in if it gets too ugly, and it can. Doggie will be grateful and you’ll get good karma for defending someone who can’t defend herself.
